8178

My Feedback: (17)

I’ve been reviewing my options for my next build. I have two Kwik Fli III kits (one glass and one wood) a Great Planes Kaos 40 kit and the Midwest Flea Fli + 10. Images of the Flea Fli + 10 kit contents below.

This will be my sixth build thread on RCU. You can see my Tiporare build thread at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2827386/tm.htm my Howard Engineering Kwik Fli III taper wing build at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2434444/tm.htm and my Cold Duck design that was published in RCM in 1971, build at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3092876/tm.htm my Blue Angel http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3973867/tm.htm and my FK SBA 60 Speeda (Blue Angel copy) http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7510820/tm.htm

To be continued….

8178

My Feedback: (17)

I’m sitting here trying to figure out how I’m going to fit a decent size engine in the Flea Fli + 10. Not much space and I'm thinking about using an old NIB OS 25 FSR engine I bought from WK hobbies a zillion years ago. The plans show a Super Tiger 20 that is much shorter than the OS 25 so it will need some careful planning and firewall placement.

I’m also wondering if the 25 FSR will provide enough performance. I feel most comfortable flying ballistic aircraft and I’m thinking I might need something like a Webra 32 to get reasonable performance. Webra filed for bankruptcy so I’m not sure what other engines might work. Might need to pipe the 25. Thinking about retracts too and that would impact the power requirements.

To be continued….

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

My Feedback: (180)

You can still get Webra .32's and .36 (better...) from
***Edit: I just checked the website and he's out... : (

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

My Feedback: (180)

Get the Jett muffler for the .36 if you decide on the Webra. It's a potent combo! 9x7 APC at 15,500!!!

Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

Hobby King has a nice equivalent .10 brushless motor.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Thanks I sent him an email. His website shows out of stock on all but the Webra 50.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

What is a .10 brushless motor?

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

My Feedback: (180)

8178 - Sent you a PM.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Thanks for the PM, I ordered a Webra 36 too! Not sure if it will fit, but what the heck.

AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken

My Feedback: (180)

Don't forget the Jett muffler.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Thanks!

Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

I'm mistaken I thought the Flea Fli needed a 0.10 engine. It uses up to a 0.23 engine, so a Hobbyking G25 brushless motor could be used.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14401.

Most of my planes are still nitro. I haven't tried the electrics yet. But this might be the size to start. Small plane, little investment in electric equipment.

Jim

8178

My Feedback: (17)

How the heck do you put fuel in that thing?

summerwind

subscribed.
keep this one light and it'll suprise you with even a ST 23............but i would go more like you are doing.
the one i had back in the early 70's weighed in at 3.5lbs, and the ST23 i had then was unmuffled. pulled it around like a rag doll, but of course suffered in the vertical from the weight.

the one i was going to build last year was going to have a ST 25X BH for power. i came to the same issue and finally decided to use hardwood beam mounts and recess the FW a bit.
the former in front of the wing doesn't need to be solid either so you can move the tank back.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

With wires...

Seriously Mike, if you are looking for a 32 look no further than the usual source. I can even refer you to the proper seller. I have bought a number of 32 size engines in the last couple of years including Webra, OS 32F and 32 SX. I like the 32F's the best but they are not as potent as the SX's although they have a proper carb without the rear mounted needle valve. Although I haven't run it, I have been told that the Webra can spit fuel from the front BB and the carb. But a Webra is a Webra. I'm expecting a 25 SF to arrive in the next few days - I'll have to check how it compares in performance to the FSR. This last strikes me as the most vintage correct engine to use though - assuming OS is the brand of choice. Actually there was a 28 SF too I believe (or FSR) which might have had a tad more punch than the 25. I've seen those too but not new.

Looking forward to the build.

David.

dhal22

i was going to tell Jim that Mike might not like the electric motor suggestion but then it's not my thread so i let Mike do it.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Are you saying an OS 25 with a pipe or the Webra 36 should be good? I’m thinking by the time I put a pipe on the 25 it would be heavier than the Webra.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Here are some comparison figures for reference:

Engine Weights:
[ul][*] Norvel NV 25 = 231g = 8.15 oz (with muffler!)[*] OS 25 VF ABC = 233g = 8.22 oz (without header or coupler adapter) [*] OS 32 F ABC = 255g = 9.00 oz (without muffler)[*] OS 32 SX ABN = 274g = 9.67 oz (without muffler)
[/ul]
Header/Pipe/Muffler Weights:
[ul][*] Hatori #300's RE header for 25 VF = 19g[*] Macs 3.5 cc 1020 Quiet Pipe = 68g (2.4 oz according to manufacture - haven't weighed mine but I think it is a touch heavier - maybe 2.5 oz) [*] OS 843 Muffler (32F) = 72g[*] OS E-3030 Muffler (32 SX) = 80g
[/ul]
I have a Macs ST X25 header and 1020 pipe attached to that engine at the moment so I haven't weighed it but it would be a pretty close match to the pipe exhaust system for any 25-36 sized engine. The total 87g (~ 3 oz) of the 25 VF piped exhaust system is also a pretty good estimate.

Given that a piped exhaust system weighs around 3 oz and a 32 sized muffler weighs between 2.5 and 2.8 oz, I'd say that within 0.5 oz, the weight of a pipe setup and a muffler in equivalent. The OS engines, on the other hand can have a weight difference of as much as ~1.5 oz. If we take the 25 VF as being a good proxy for the 25 FSR or 25 SF, then the weight of the power plants would something like:

Power Plant Weights:
[ul][*] Piped 25 FSR/SF = ~320g = 11.29 oz[*] Muffled OS 32 SX = 354g = 12.49 oz
[/ul]
So a piped 25 size engine (with the heaviest and longest pipe) is lighter than a powerful muffled 32 by about 1.2 oz. A muffled 36 would likely be heavier than the piped 25 by at least 1.5 oz if not closer to 2 oz.

According to OS info:

http://osengines.com/engines/engine-...continued.html

the 25 SF is lighter than the VF (I weighed the DF version which is supposedly lighter than the regular VF) at 8.6-8.7 oz (depending on carb used) but these figures are a little lower than real-life. They likely weigh 8.8-8.9 oz. Unfortunately there is no info on the 25 FSR but Mike has one to weigh.

With a 32 or 36 which are a tad longer than the 25's (the NV 25 is particularly short - probably similar to the ST G20/23 on the plans), there is also fuel consumption to think about. I'd say 5 oz minimum if not 6 oz vs the 4 oz which the 25's would probably be fine with. I'd go with a piped FSR, retracts and build it light. The retracts, especially Spring-Air's 603's are not light either. I'd use electric retracts which are considerably lighter but I'm afraid they are imports and I know how Mike feels about that. Then again, OS engines are also imports.

In short, for ballistic American performance - a Jett 30 or 35 (same weight as a 32 SX roughly) would do nicely. The Jett 25 which is in the same case as the 30 and 35 actually weighs more (since it is less bored).

Some food for thought.

David.

P.S. Interestingly, the NV 25 is exceedingly light weighing less than the other engines including its muffler. However, it is not a BB engine. A piped NV 25 would be interesting to compare in performance to an FSR or SF.

Texastbird

This might be a pretty good match for the Flea Fli size wise.
http://www.ttamerica.com/engines/ttrg9028.html
I fly a similar sized plane with an old Enya 15, ha, ha. I guess I'm not a speed freak though.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

David,
Thanks for the great info! I’ll see how heavy the Webra is when it arrives. I found one thread that indicated 9.45 oz.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Forget a milk toast OS, go with a Jett 35 or 40 (both weigh about the same) and spin the prop with authority.

Jett 35 w/9x6 prop at 18,200 rpm - weight 13.9 oz with muffler
Jett 40 w/10x6 prop at 15,800 rpm - weight 14.0 oz with muffler

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Thunder Tigers are good engines and I saw that one too.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

I rest my case. I was editing my post as HP was writing this.

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

But I believe made in Taiwan.

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

You're welcome. I wouldn't be surprised if the Webra 32 or 36 is lighter than the OS 32 SX. This last is a heavy engine but also outputs 1.2 bhp. The Webra web site is completely down. Sad story.

Here's the passage I added into my post above:

With a 32 or 36 which are a tad longer than the 25's (the NV 25 is particularly short - probably similar to the ST G20/23 on the plans), there is also fuel consumption to think about. I'd say 5 oz minimum if not 6 oz vs the 4 oz which the 25's would probably be fine with. I'd go with a piped FSR, retracts and build it light. The retracts, especially Spring-Air's 603's are not light either. I'd use electric retracts which are considerably lighter but I'm afraid they are imports and I know how Mike feels about that. Then again, OS engines are also imports.

In short, for ballistic American performance - a Jett 30 or 35 (same weight as a 32 SX roughly) would do nicely. The Jett 25 which is in the same case as the 30 and 35 actually weighs more (since it is less bored).

David.