limeybob

My Feedback: (6)

Bryan, Solidworks.
I always start in autocad with the plan, create the sections and outlines as needed, all referenced to a common zero point. Save as .DXF and then insert the DXFs into solidworks.
From there, sections can be cut as needed, then back to autocad for the laser parts
Advertising, no, just like to get more designs out there.

This is what it will look like eventually, EF2000 example.

bob

limeybob

My Feedback: (6)

more progress.
bob

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Okay guys,

I would ask that someone REALLY dumb this down for me. I essentially need to know the process of starting from a pdf, jpg, tif, etc. file. What conversion program(s) is needed to simply convert these to a dxf file to let the equipment cut the work.

No enuendo or pragmatism, I just would like to start cutting templates. [8D]
Thanks for the help.

Brian

limeybob

My Feedback: (6)

Brian, I import a scanned tiff image into Autocad and draw/trace the required outlines, if its a plan, trace the existing formers, print them and then cut them out.
I use my laser cutter for this.

Any CAD program can do this, Draftsight is a free one that works like Autocad.

Here's an example.

hope this helps.

For 3D look at this thread.
http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/...TID=13603&PN=1

Bob

Timthetoolman1

My Feedback: (6)

I use AutoCAD and I have a few friends that use Corel Draw. I tried to convert them to AutoCAD till I saw how well it works. Some will tell you Corel doesn't work but they're wrong. I went to get a demo on a laser last month and they use Corel as well as their clients.
I'm starting to play with Rhino and it seems to be a combination of Corel and AutoCAD.
With any of them you have to import your plans rather it's a tiff, jpeg, or what ever and then draw over it.

limeybob

My Feedback: (6)

Coreldraw seems to be the defacto standard for laser cutter/engravers, I did learn to use it with mine, It works well for engraving. But its only2D for drawing?
I never did like the drawing aspect of it, as I was too used to Autocad.
The original driver with my laser did not have a raster option for Autocad, but it does now, so for me Coreldraw is not needed.
Bob

zedad71

My Feedback: (1)

Simply put, there is no easy way to import a RASTER file,, (scanned image) and have software create an accurate cutting file to send to a laser or whatever. The MAIN reason this wont work , aside from technical mumbo jumbo, is that hand drawn plans are NEVER accurate enough to cut parts from with any expectation of a proper fit, at least not what we have come to expect from laser kits. If you want the advantages of laser cut parts, you simply MUST import to a VECTOR based drawing program, and redraw them accurately.
that's as simple of an explanation as you can get.
My two cents worth, I draw all my plans in autocad, typically traced from an imported PDF or TIF file depending on the situation. I trace the outlines,, bulkheads and rib LOCATIONS, then turn off the imported drawing and basically draw from the traced sketch I created in order to develope the fits and accuracy that is needed.
my two cents worth,, Your mileage may vary

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Mark,

good to hear from you and nice simple account of the process. I'm glad that there is someone who is able to cut through the mumbo jumbo and put things in a couple of sentences.

That apparently wouldn't be me...

David.

zedad71

My Feedback: (1)

LOL, David,
yeah some times I can cut through the noise and get to the point, though most times I am the one accused of making the noise lol,,
BTW, the Aurora is back on the list now,, getting my mojo back in gear so it should show progress soon,,

Roguedog

Brian,

There are new programs I have run across recently that will convert from PDFto DWF etc. Just do a web search and you will have many to choose from. Here's a link for cad convertors. http://freecad.com/CAD_Converters/You can find demos of cad apps here as well.

It is very easy to get a raster file into a cad program, those that say it is hard are not in the know or are just trying to chunk up this thread with crap.

Here's is another site for you to browse. http://www.dwgtool.com/index.htm

I'm quite amazed at some of the responses here of late as to how hard this is whenit isin fact not.

First, you need to decidewho isgoingto cut youparts then ask them whichfile format they suggest, for example -

At AK Models they can cut from a Autocad DWG or DXF file and from a Coreldraw 12 file.Here's their linkfor file submitting info -http://www.lasercuttingakm.com/productssee pic for their example file

Next,you need to decide on a CAD app that you will use before you can even think about converting your plans.

Once you determine who is going to cut you parts, the next step is to determine the Software you will need, in AK Models case Autocad 2002, Corel Draw 12, or a conversion program.

limeybob's post isexactlywhat I do.

It'seasy to get aTIFfile (raster)intoAutocad, but you have to use the cad app to trace over the imported raster file to make a workable cut file. There is just not any software that will make an accurate cutfile that the laser cutters will accept. There are applications that will convert Raster to DXF etc, but the problem you will encounter is when the cutter software tries to read your converted file. Cutters charge by time and length of the cut. Splines, a type of curve line created in cad programs and by conversion programs, will genereally cost you more as they slow down the cutting process. For this reason you want to learn and use an appropriate program to make this cut file. In Autocad I use ARC lines instead of splines.

It you have you own cutter then you would use the software best suited to that cutter.

Roguedog

Funny to here you say this now!

Roguedog

Bob,
Thank you very muchfor posting this with the pic. It is this simple.For those who say it's not, I suspect ulterior motives.
Bryan

zedad71

My Feedback: (1)

Bryan
not sure who you are refering to with your "ulterior motives" comment but I can assure you, when I give an opinion, it is just that, my opinion,, its my best effort to share information that I have gained from working with cad since oh say about 1995... Not that I have any experience,, or knowledge.
taking advantage of the accuracy of a laser requires accurate files,, hand drawn plans are VERY seldom accurate enough to really use without tracing and redrawing, they were drawn with a pencil, by hand, whereas the computer has accuracy down to six decimal places.
taking the attitude that someone who takes the time to share in a helpfull manner could possibly have ulterior motives,, ( I assume you mean that they have some kind of financial or monetary gain in mind?) is ludicrous and insulting. It will prompt those of us who know and work with these systems to simply quit trying to help.
I have converted many plans to cut files,, if you want them to be accurate enough to take advantage of the real reason to use a laser( that being accuracy, and not laziness to cut out parts) then you simply MUST trace over the drawings in cad, the REDRAW them accuratly, blindly tracing will lead to parts that dont fit right, and other errors,,
Please keep in mind, some of us share because we struggled to learn, and we want to save other people the heartache we went through

Roguedog

Mark,

Whooo! Whoo! I think you need to check your ego on this as I was just making a general statement, If I were fishing I would have hooked a whopper by the way you responded.

The title of the thread is quite clear "Converting Plans for templates for laser cutters or CNC wood cutter". Positive reinforcement on how to do this is what I was hoping for.

A guy asks "hey can you dumb this down for me" and you startyour post post with
I do appreciate your two cents worth, as in the following
But,startingoff your postthat way IMHO didn't enhance or help him. IMO it seemed a little negative to me. So I elaborated. Most people, making another general statement here, are going to have some type of graphics file that will need to be converted whether it's a PDGor TIF.

What are the nesting andcut file requirements for your laser cutting source?

AK Models wants RED lines for cut parts and green lines for text or number on top of the individual cut part.

zedad71

My Feedback: (1)

FIrst off, there is no ego involved, I deal with misconceptions and misinformation, at work ( where I do cad work) with other modelers on other forums, and with other "experts"
My goal is only to present accurate information with no misleading ideas.
I stand by the fact that there is no easy way to convert a raster document into a vector document and maintain the accuracy needed to take advantage of a lasers inherant accuracy WITHOUT tracing and redrawing the file in the vector enviroment.
THe most common thing that happens is that people tend to think that there is a magic button that changes the scan of the drawing into a parts drawing, it just aint so,, there are programs that will convert from raster to vector, I have one, but by the time you clean up the resulting drawing, most times it is faster to simply import the raster file,and then trace it taking advantage of the snap and various line commands to build back the accuracy. I am also a painter, and have people asking me about shortcuts in the painting process,or ways to save money by using less expensive thinners. I FIRMLY stand against shortcuts because they cause more problems than they solve,,
That said, There is no SIMPLE way , there are ways and with practice and diligence a person can learn them but simple? I dont think they are simple but then thats my perspective
If I were to lay out the exact process I use, step by step, it would be a book because it needs to cover all the variables and issues that one comes up against in this process.

in closing, its not my ego, its reality, implying that to do this in a simple manner is not reality, its time consuming, and requires practice and attention to detail. UNLESS you are willing to accept sub-standard results akin to building from an old die-crushed sterling kit or the like where every part required massaging to fit properly.
My impression is that these people want to learn how to do this, and in that, its best not to lead them to believe that its either fast or simple, it just isnt. BUT it is doable by virtually anyone with practice and time.
as to my cutters requirements,,
all lines are polylines, cut lines are cyan, letttering and etch information is yellow
All lines are offset .003" for cutting "kerf" allowance.
maintain a minimum of .125 distance from the edge of all blanks
as to nesting, it depends totally upon the thickness of the material being cut, 1/2" requires more clearance than does 1/16 so there is no real answer
he imports the drawing files into Corel draw to prep cutting files

Aurora_60

My Feedback: (1)

PLEASE!! I am VERY interested in what this thread could be. I know NOTHING about raster, vector, jpg. etc.. I dont want to know them either. I would really like to just make... um... Simple cut files out of my existing plans. I'm not designing planes, just want the simple 2D shapes traced and mailed.
There are some very competent folks here for doing this.... Maybe too competent for guilding really ignorant (myself) people for this.
There has to an easy way to do this.. I like the way Bob is doing this, sounds simple, perfect for us CADD illiterate folks who really have no idea, BUT would like to do learn this, WITHOUT being overwhelmed.
Please post more about what You do to Your plans Bob.

DM

limeybob

My Feedback: (6)

Ok, first you have to get the plans in a digital format.
I use my local Office Max, they have a 36" scanner.
Can you get this done?

Bob

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

David,

glad to hear you are interested in the process. One gets a real kick from the results once your efforts come back in the form of a laser cut kit. 3D CNC cut blocks I have yet to see but you can imagine that producing 3D drawings for a router to produce MK style parts and then have those milled is also quite cool!

In my brief experience I'll just say that I put my mind to the idea of ending up with a CAD plan on the table by the time I was done and be pleased with that alone. If you head down this road, be prepared for some "peripheral learning" and a decent dose of patience. We modelers tend to be good candidates for both of those facets though. I kinda think of it as being akin to baking a cake. You can make one if you have the ingredients but knowing what the ingredients are and how and when to mix them makes the difference between a nice fluffy cake and a flat leaden disc the dog will get excited about...

If you pick a project that you just gotta have, it helps in ploughing through some of the trials and tribulations of the learning stages. I guess CAD is kinda technical so you have to enjoy that side of things to stay with it. In my software experience I have found 3D programs to be the hardest to get your head around. For some of the younger kids today, it just looks like a stroll in the park for them - it's cool to watch someone proficient with 3D materializing things out of thin air. Fortunately, 3D CAD is not always needed so I picked projects that I figured I could make work in 2D alone.

There I go again with mumbo jumbo - I'm just glad to hear that you are interested in getting into it. [8D]

Cheers, David.

pitstop000

My Feedback: (26)

That’s Not a problem,
I’m also reading all this.

Aurora_60

My Feedback: (1)

Bob,
I have been doing this through the years at Kinkos. Mainly to just make a copy to build from and to share w/ friends and cut out the postage cost.

David,
How is it going? I understand your view, but I'm overwelmed with the information, waaay beyond my knowledge as a newbe. I guess where I'm at is: I want to eat some cake that I can bake myself. I dont want to get confused with learning how the chemicals in the ingredients make it fluffy.. yet. So I need to know where and which brand of boxed, premixed cake mix I should buy, and the cost of it.




DM

limeybob

My Feedback: (6)

Ok, Get the plan scanned.

Get access to a CAD program, and we can go from there.

Or, post the scanned file, maybe somebody will work on it for you.

Bob

Bob

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

David,

I can see where you're coming from. I think the best way to go about it is to disregard info that doesn't jive with you and take small steps. Bob has a good pragmatic approach so maybe his posts will help those interested in getting a start. If I was starting from scratch what I would do is as follows:
[ul][*] Download a free CAD program, install it and start poking around in it to familiarize myself with what and how it does things. DraftSight might be a good candidate.[*] Then I would see if I could import a scanned plan into the program and how the "layers" in the program work so that you can draft basic contours on one layer and keep the plan on another. I use layers a lot as it helps to turn, move and manipulate things at will.[*] Once I'd been able to get the above two accomplished, I'd try to complete the outline of the model planform without worrying about dimensional issues or the internals of the model (formers, ribs, etc.)[*] Then I would go and ask my teacher "what's next?"
[/ul]
One further thought regarding the cake analogy. This kind of work in my mind is analogous to going into the kitchen and learning how to cook. That's really what its about. You don't necessarily have to understand the chemistry but a feel, taste and smell go a great ways in getting that cake or soup to taste good. If you're looking for a boxed premixed cake that just requires adding water, well, that is sort of like buying a kit to build... know what I mean?

Like in everything though there is a "middle of the road" space where you'll find yourself being comfortable and yet you'll be cookin'! [8D]

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Mark,

that is excellent news! I'm glad you're finding good times in getting back into the swing of things.

I'm eagerly looking forward to more on the A30

Cheers, David.

P.S. BTW, for those who may not know, Mark is doing some most excellent work on the MK 20 size conservation project. Fantastic design work and a true craftsman.

Roguedog

Paul & Brian

I spent the afternoon downloading and installing several free ware CAD applications. The bestone is Draftsight from Dassault Systems http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsig...-cad-software/who by the also make SolidWorks.

It's about 55 Megabytes, and get this, it allows you to directly import what it calls a reference image into the app without any conversion process. I installed it. launched it and was able to instantly import a TIFfile directly into the app and start tracing it right away, and by the way, it does not import PDFs.

The reference image can be BMP, JPG,JPEG, PNG, TIFor TIFF file. They also offer the application for theMac and Linux OS's

It is very similar to Autocad in that it has a layers feature so you can assign the reference image to a layer or any other line or curve. It also saves to DWG and DXF which most cutters can use with little intervention. Very nice app

This is definitely the software you want ot use. So here's the CAD program you need to get started and BTW it's free not shareware or a timed demo.

TBC

Aurora_60

My Feedback: (1)

edit..