KLXMASTER14

A while back I asked if an assembly thread on the Hangar 9 Phoenix 7 ARF would be in order, or redundant. Most thought that it would be a good deal, so here we go. There is already quite a bit posted on this airplane ranging back prior to it's introduction, so I will try to not be redundant. This thread is not intended to replace the excellent instruction manual that is included with the airplane, but a supplement where one may find the things that can only be learned once a product has been to market.

I will do my homework and research existing posts for information, This is OUR thread, and I would ask anyone who has anything to add, please dive in. I understand there are a couple of weaknesses that need to be addressed during assembly:

1. Weak firewall joint. A quick glance at my fuselage shows that some rework is in order.
2. Weak main gear mount.
3. Fuel tank too high.
4. ____________.

Please fill in the blanks.

First on the list is tightening up the covering. For those who are kind of bothered by "I didn't build it", using or building your covering skills, taking a "from the box" finish to an airplane that sets apart from the crowd is an opportunity to gain pride of ownership of your shiny new bird. Don't skip it.

-Robert Fish

proparc

I can't believe there is actually a Phoenix Seven in Simi Valley. The next time I see you at Trader Joe's, I will harrass you for updates on the plane LOL.

dphill2

My Feedback: (1)

Fuel tank too hi !! So thats why they go lean on outside maneuvers.....

KLXMASTER14

I wonder if an upright mounted engine would cure the fuel tank issue?

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Or an engine with a pump??

I will be watching this (as I have been watching the other P7 thread)-my P7 is hiding in the box, under the bench, waiting for the Escape to get out of the way.

If I could have everything I would like, I would have retracts and have the tank low enough to solve the "too lean inverted" problem. Probably not possible........

Cheers,
Jim

KLXMASTER14

I can't believe that there is another classic pattern enthusiast in Simi Valley. If a few old doors were knocked upon, a couple more may bounce out. You never know.

Are you coming out to the Classic Pattern Get-Together at Camarillo on Saturday, May 21st?

playntraffic

I have been fighting this for months. Really a PITA.

dphillips3

Don't worry about it Mike, I need an advantage!!!

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

The fuel tank issue can be helped by replacing the stock tank with a DuBro 16 ounce. Then install it right against the firewall as low in the fuse as it will go. Mount it with the "Tang" on the tank on the bottom and drill two new holes through the firewall for the vent and feed lines to go through the upper part of the firewall. Make sure to shorten the screws holding in the nose gear so they don't protrude through the NG mount and pierce the tank. This will get the fuel in a much better location. It doesn't solve the problem 100%, but improves it a bunch. With my Evo .60NX on the suggested Macs pipe and header, the needle setting will start the flight just a bit rich upright, will run fine through outsides, and will lean in to a good setting everywhere after a minute or two of flying.

This was a problem with the original Phoenix 6 and 7 and was one of the reasons pumps became popular then. But with a firewall mounted nose gear you could get the tank even a bit lower. The mounts in this P-7 keep the tank a bit higher. Also, I am using a helicopter style fuel line pincher to keep the line closed after filling the tank. Keeps the motor from getting flooded when the model is just sitting. I'll try to get some pics of what I have done posted.

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

Hoping to maiden my P-7 this weekend, almost got the Rhom Air nose strut squared away. What are you folks using for the Rx battery (aside from LiPos)? I'll have 5 Fut 3152 digis, one mini analog for the retract valve, and a Fut 617 or 6082.4 Rx? I need a few new Rx battery packs and I'm not comfy using an 1100 or 1200mAh with the digi servos etc. (unless....?) I'm thinking at least 1650 or perhaps 2100 or so. The P-7 is my first plane with digi servos (I don't feel that 5 cell packs are a must, but opinions are much appreciated). Need replies asap guys, thanks a bunch.

hook

stuntflyr

I am using 6V 2100 for the servos and a 4.8 1800 for the mx gear in my Tiporare, Mark. My dad lost six models to brown outs with his Extreme system last spring and it scared me. I use Airtronics except on the Kaos in St. Louis (72 Futaba), and have never experienced anything but great reception, but used the over kill method to avoid any problems (even the Kaos has a 6V 2100 back by the trailing edge!).
I noticed Rusty used 4.8 in his Blue Angel, I was suprised. Maybe I'm over reacting.
Chris...

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Before I gave up AMA Pattern for vision reasons, I was using the Central Hobbies Li-Ion packs with their (Jim Odino's, I think) charger and regulator. 2200 mah at that time, I think they are 2400 now.

When I get my CPA model ready, I plan to use the same system.

Jim

KLXMASTER14

Hook,
I have been using 1300 mAh 4 & 5 cell Ni-Mh packs with an Oddino regulator in several airplanes now, with digital servos. Zero brownouts, I can get about 8 -9 flights with a saftey margin. I check my packs with one of those ESV's with a 1/2 amp load. this is on my Focus Sport. The smaller Classic models seem to draw less current (lighter/smaller control surfaces), and I don't yet know the upper limit of flight time on those yet.
I recommend checking your packs with an ESV with a load, then you will always be sure before you push the throttle forward. Log the number of flights, and check the voltage each time. Then you will have solid data with which you can establish performance parameters regarding flight time for a given set-up.

I have yet to experience a brown out (thank God).

KLXMASTER14

This is going to be my set-up for the P-7:

Futaba 7C 2.4 GHz radio
1300 mAh 5 cell Ni-Mh airborne battery.
JR DS821 digital servos.
Magnum .61 XLS engine. Will run the stock muffler.
Fixed gear. Weight of airplane vs. Drag. Wing loading is where it's at, guys. Retracts can be readily retrofitted later, if I feel the urge. Maybe the subject of a thread?

I am considering an upright mounted engine to counter the too-high-tank-position problem. A pumped engine would also solve this issue, but I am going for the "KEEP IS SIMPLE, STUPID" approach on this airplane. Also, if I choose to run a pipe in the future, an upright installation makes pipe mounting simple, with the side benefit of ease of assembly at the field. No pipe to mess with when bolting up the wing. TBD for now.

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

Jim, Klx, Chris,
Thanks guys. I use XPS on some of my stuff and they indicate a need for 350-500 mAh for each servo (with 5 digis thats a min of 1750 mAh!).The P-7 will be Fut FASST 2.4. I think the the 3152s and the 821s are similar in current drain, I need to order something asap. Keep it coming, all ideas are useful. I considered LiPo but I think I'll stick to NiMh for now.

Hooks P-7 Specs:
ACE MP8K with Fut TM-8, 617 Rx
Servos- 3152s (analog on retracts)
Rhom Air retracts (arghh) could still go fixed gear
NIB Kraft .61, have header an pipe, might use Kraft muffler
Battery, hmmmmm, thinking 4 cell 1650 mAh, maybe 5 cell (but more internal resistance right?)
I could always bust out the Kaos (it flew nicely the other day)!

Hey Chris, a first and second place eh! You're doing nicely thus far this season!

edp

My Feedback: (5)

Hey Guys,

Here is my P-7

Futaba 10C 2.4
Webra Speed .61 with Macs black pipe
E-Flight electric retracts
1600 ma 6v battery
digital on flight controls, std. on throttle
8 lbs. dry weight
Now for the mods... Fiber glassed the FW to the fuselage. Shimed the MM to line up the spinner w/ the nose ring. Added a sub rib the the wing LG mounts and made a slurry of epoxy and milled fibers to the joints.

I'm waiting for the rains to go away so I can get this bird in the air[:@]

Jim Oliver

My Feedback: (1)

Hook,

The Central batts are Li-Ion, they look like ni-cad or NiMh cells-no baloons!

Do you have a weight on yours? I'm really interested in how the K61 works out, since that is one of my options.

Cheers,
Jim

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Retracts were really never about drag reduction. If some thought that was the case, it really wasn't. Now if you put doors on the gear and close up the holes, now you have drag reduction. But retracts were always about the look. They just make the plane look much better, particularly models of the era. Also a small improvement in bringing the weight of everything closer to the center of the model.

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

I run a 2 cell - 850 mah lipo in my Deception on high speed digital servos... running a Castle reg at 6 volts... into 10ch Airtronics 2.4 rx

s.

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

More thanks for the ideas guys. I agree with Tony mostly onthe retracts too, whatever drag (would that be parasitic or induced!) there is from the gear might be equal tothat produced from the open bays etc., but it does look good tucked away. I'm frustrated enough with mine that I'll probably stick the fixed gear in it and just fly it. Finally got the motor mount squared away to where I'm satisfied with it, the SIG EM001 mount is almost a one-for one replacement and only $4.25 at the LHS, the rails were much straighter and only required opening the holes for the firewall bolts. Only two weeks until the FVAC classic andI need some air time on it. Probably could've finished the TT III given the time spent on this. Going to go 1650 mAh NiMh for battery, I like the LiPo idea with the reg, but I just don't have time to get that set up (thanks Scott). Need to take care of the offset(fuse twist?) between the stab/wing and I should be done (I consideredheating the fuse to take out the twist, but then the vertical stab would not be perpindicular and then....., well you know). Any guesses as to how many P-7s will be at Rusty's Classic for 2011? I'm bettin at least a few!

hook

Tim Redelman

My Feedback: (36)

Hey Hook!

+1 on the p-7 count!

Jump in your full scale and shoot down to the mac this weekend and I'll help you hammer that thing out!!! No Charge baby!

Timmah!

Tim Redelman

My Feedback: (36)

Oh yeah Tried Tony's dubro tank mod on two different planes!! Awesome!!! Thanks Tony! A big fo sho on that mod! Outsides were much more consistent needle wise for sure! We bit less flight time tho[:@]


Now as for gear doors........... Hmmmm ELectra nose gear door setup would work maybe mains strut doors would work too!! That would be cool. Oh well next one maybe.

Tim

KLXMASTER14

Absolutely correct. More important, (Pardon the awkward explanation) there is a drag "moment" or lever of the wheels that affects the trim and handling of the aircraft. More pronounced on some designs than others. Retracting the landing gear removes this force from the force arrangement of the aircraft. Perhaps someone can make a more articulate explanation than this. It escapes me right now.

We are getting some great info here guys. Please keep it coming. I have been busy preparing for the Perris IMAC this weekend. I will get back to this assembly in earnest after the Classic Pattern Get-together.

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Hey Tim, glad it worked as well for you as it did for me. I just had to pull out of my fading brain cells how we did it in the day. Or maybe we can get Evolution to make a pump system. That would completely solve it. But it's pretty good with the DuBro tank and some fine tuning.

I am sure having fun with mine. Now to get Horizon to do the next one!

8178

My Feedback: (17)

True it would be cleaner with gear doors, but take a strut and wheel and hang it out your car window at about 90 MPH. You’ll be amazed how much force it takes to hold that wheel in the slipstream.