kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

A TAURUS WITH A SWEPT WING AND AN EVEN LONGER TAIL MOMENT IS VERY INTERESTING TO ME. I bet it would fly well; if I'd have known you had it, I would have like to talk to you about it.

Look at the picture. This Taurus version was built by a fellow names Howard Thombs who flew the contest circuit back then. I always admired this plane. He once did a Split S right into a landing seemingly without adjustments...very impressive to a 14 year old. I also like the simple, yet elegant paint scheme.

I've seen two of these, (different numbers), the other is part of Chuck Winter's 1963 through 1965 vintage pattern DVD which records the last three Detroit Invitations, and a tribute to Tom Brett, (see Tom Brett thread, and EKT). If you don't have Chuck's DVD, you are missing a treat; it shows most all the early greats in RC pattern, (they were all invited) actually flying their classic designs...I'll include a few pictures from the event in case you haven't seen them elsewhere.

Duane

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Bill,

Take your time and give me a chance to catch up. A couple-three months should do it.

The problem with a day job is that it interferes with the important activities in life.

Cheers,
Richard

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Duane,

I got confused by step 14 in the Fuselage section of the instructions. It says to align the fuse halves in several ways, including butting them up against a straightedge. Since I hadn't glued much in, I butted the *noses* against a straightedge. Thus, several parts no longer aligned. Obviously, I thought I had done something wrong. Jeff clarified that the *holes* are the datum points; not the nose. Also that he probably should have written to align the *tail* against a straightedge.

The original two halves are fine *except* the ply doubler on the right side is a couple degrees off. That could be trimmed to be correct.

However, since I have glued most of the parts of the replacement fuse, I'll use it and keep the original as a spare or to play with later on. I am waiting for triangle stock and more contest sheeting from National Balsa.

In the meantime, I'm working on getting the wings ready for sheeting. Need to finish the leading edges and work on the servo mountings. Have not yet made up my mind about having rib W1 with the balsa or the ply against the fuse. I *have* determined that sanding the spar and wing tube stubs down to meet W1 and the fuse side correctly is going to be a pain. (Unless someone has figured out a magical way around the sand-fit-sand-fit etc. method.)

Now that I know how I *should* have done it, I'll also make a new horizontal stab since the first version, although beaten into shape, is pretty heavy. Waiting for some balsa from National.

I've decided to mount the servos so only the control arm is visible above the skin. I'll mount them flat to covers that I can screw into hardwood mounts in the wing.

The whole covering-with-carbon-veil plan has been dropped (since it doesn't do what I had hoped) and I've ordered .73-ounce glass. I was going to buy some woven carbon cloth, which *will* add strength and stiffness, to take the place of the fuse side stringers until I saw the price. $120 per yard for the thin, light stuff. (The heavier cloth, although slightly less expensive, would not be a weight savings compared to the balsa.) Maybe when I win the Lotto. Back to the balsa stringers.

Cheers,
Richard

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

The PLY should be against the fuselage side...that's the way I've seen all plug-in wings done, and the way I did mine. It also makes it easier to seal against oil/fuel to keep it from soaking in. Did Jeff or Kevin say they had the balsa side out?

About the servos, I did exactly what you are planning to do, and I believe Kevin did the same thing. I may have put one on a "bed" of double stick tape for a little vibration resistance. As mentioned earlier in the thread when I posted my wing pictures, rather than use two entire servo rails, I epoxied small square pieces on all four corners with a bit of overlap. This has been more than sufficient, and saves some weight. I'm doing the same thing on my present King Altair wing. The full rails LOOK better, but I couldn't afford that much weight. It's just what I do..if weight isn't critical, use the rails.

The servos are screwed into two small "posts" that are epoxied directly to the servo door. I copied that method from another plane I have, and it works well. I'll post some pictures of that area soon in the hope it will help someone.

As for the misunderstanding with the instructions...that's probably Jeff's fault, (the customer is always right).

Duane

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Duane,

I think Bill did the balsa against the fuse since it could conform more readily than the ply. I'd have to go back through the thread to see if someone else mentioned or used that method.

Yeah! Jeff's fault! The customer may be clueless and inexperienced, but always right!

Cheers,
Richard

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

I would definitely put the ply against the fuselage. This is not only an area where oil residue can seep underheath, it is also an area that has to be able to stand up to putting the wings on and off over time...in other words, a "tough" area. I don't think the balsa will hold up AS WELL, just my opinion.

I'll post some "interior" pictures soon.

Duane

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Duane,

Also my opinion. I had been trying to come up with good methods to increase the survivability of the balsa.

Looking forward to the interior shots.

Cheers,
Richard

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Duane,

You could put triangular blocks in the four corners of the wing servo bay and save even more weight. I used the full rail plan this time, but had to hog out quite a bit of the rear rail to get servo clearence. That is due to the fact that I used the CF tubes in the wing which caused inteference with the forwardservo mounting tab requiring me to move the rear servo mountingrail toward the TE. The fit was very tight but it worked out quite well in the end. Next time I will forego the CF tubes in the wing and use triangular mounting blocks for the servo door.

Richard,

I put the plywood root rib on the outside. When I glass the wing I plan on glassing the plywood root rib as well. Like Duane pointed out , that is an area where you want strength and durability as well as fuel proofing.

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Bill,

My apologies. I must have misunderstood something someone said.

Cheers,
Richard

billberry189

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I posted some photos on post #474 of this passed week's project.

Also I forgot to mention that the Taurus I sold helped spark some enthusiasm for vintage pattern planes with the club of the new owner. He called to let me know that they want me to attend a Don Lowe( of the Phoenix design) dedicated event in the near future. I am looking forward to being there, but it is another thing to slow my building down. Oh well, I'll file that under pleasent problems.

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Richard,

No apologies necessary. I'm not that thin skinned.

Bill

patternflyer76

I put the balsa out and the ply inside for ease of final sanding. I do not believe that area will fail or come undone unless you are planning on pouring your fuel into your tank through the wing tube and into the fuse strait from your jug of fuel. Also if you do not plan to pitch your wings into the vehicle, or slam them onto the fuse you should be fine as well. With the ply to the inside you will still have your structural integrity, but the ease of final sanding the fit. I was able to get a very close fit by sanding and fitting. The reason for this is that the fuse starts curving toward the tail section at the former to the rear. In other words the fuse is not an exact strait plain from the LE/TE of the root rib. This will require sanding unless you build the root rib at the angLE of the fuse before gluing it into the spars, TE/LE..... Even then you will still have some sanding or filling to do. Unless something has changed from the prototypes this situation should still exist.

Kevin Clark

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Exactly!

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Kevin...how did you know that was EXACTLY what I was planning to do...doesn't everybody?? I NEED THAT EXTRA PROTECTION!!

Here are the servo area pictures I promised back on post #478. I will be adding detail photos of various areas of the wing and fuselage over the next little while, plus radio installation, (if you expect mine to look like Kevin's, let me "burst your bubble" right now). I am going to SWALLOW MY PRIDE, and display my "not nearly as nice as Kevin's technique to the whole world". I use the Joe six-pack, ham-handed installation method.

You will notice I used a bent wire at the servo end. Since I did this, (about a year ago), I have become MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH etc etc more aware of making installations with ZERO "play" in them, so I would probably reserve this method for "sport planes". Still, for my purposes, it works fine, and it illustrates the servo installation method, (much like a WM Intruder).

Duane

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Well I'm back at it again. I spent the day installing the radio in the fuselage and connecting the control rods. I know that this may seem to be a little premature in light of where the CG might turn out to be, but sinceI will be using two 5 cell 6 volt 2000 Mah batteries I should have plenty of weight to move around for final adjustments.

At this point I have used short connectors between the servos and the push rods, but I am not certain that I am going to keep them that way. I'll probably opt for six inch rods in the future. That will make ita littlle easier to remove and reinstall the radio board. I'm actually surprised at how much room there is on the inside of the fuselage. One could probably install two radios and two fuel tanks inside and still have room left over .

Bill

PS- I also installed the fuel tank today. I used the 16 oz. tank at Duane's suggestion.

Bye-Bye

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Bill,

Looking good!

It looks as though you're using a pull-pull system on the rudder, but with metal rods instead of some type of cord. Is that correct?

And I'm not sure what the rod is that's going through the wing sheeting. Or is that the underside of the wing and the rod is the landing gear? In which case you're mounting the servos upside-down. Hadn't thought of that.

How is the hidden elevator control working?

Cheers,
Richard

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Richard,

Early on in the build I had installed the push rods to control the elevator and rudder externally. That was before Duane pointed outthat Ed used an internal elevator actuating rod. So, since the two rods I had already installed exited the fuselage at the same location on opposite sides of the fuselage I decided to make the rudder a pull/pull affair and the elevator an internal affair. Anyway, I just went ahead and used the Sullivan semiflex Gold-N-Rod to actuate the rudder. I could have used a cable arrangement but I already had the Sullivan rods installed, so I used them. BTW they work beautifully.

Yes that is the bottom of the wing and the wire is the landing gear wire.

The servos are upside down relative to the top of the fuselage, but that is the only logical way to mount them since the radio bay opens toward the bottom of the fuselage.

The internal elevator acuator works great. I still have to cut a hatch at the bottom rear of the fuselage to access the elevator end. Maybe tomorrow.

Also, I realize that my radio installation is somewhat compact considerng the amount of room there is available. On the other hand, when it comes to balancing I won't have to move a lot of hardware around. The way I did it gives me a lot of space to move the batteries in order to obtain the proper balance.

Bill

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Bill,

Are you going to have nose-wheel steering? And if so, will you be using a separate servo? I didn't see a lead going forward from the rudder servo. I'll have to wait until I get my fuse halves together (the balsa I ordered last Friday from National won't arrive until next Wednesday), but I'm going to see if there's room up front for the throttle and steering servos.

In the meantime, I can finish forming the leading edge on the second wing panel and work on the aileron servo hatches.

Cheers,
Richard

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Richard,

Yes I am going to have nose wheel steering. I haven't decided whether to use a seperate servo or a bell crank operated off of the rudder servo. I'll have to let you know on that one. According to Duane the nose wheel steering is not really necessary, but since I had already made provision for it before he mentioned it, I'm going to use it.

Bill

rg1911

My Feedback: (1)

Bill,

I'm going with a steerable nose gear because we get such horrible winds at our field that when you're taxiing out to the runway, you need all the steering help you can get.

Cheers,
Richard

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Well, I just turned off my transmitter. All systems are go. It's time to disassemble and finish prep for paint.

I almost forgot , the hole in the right wing is purely unintentional. I just got carried away when I hollowed the tip

Bill

PS- I tried to upload some photos but there is a server problem. I will try again latter.

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

Bill;

For comparison, I'll post pictures of my radio installation soon.

I assume those numbers on the sheeting are weights of the sheeting. Are the heaviest sheets on the left wing? I've slowed down some on my King Altair wing construction, but now have both wing halves at the same level of completion. The right, (light) wing at this point is exactly one ounce heavier than the left wing with the weight distributed across the whole wing structure, (rather than at the tip with a lead weight), so at least that seems to be going according to plan...we'll see what the final difference is later, and if it is enough, (or too much).

bill...Assuming the Ed Kazmirski paint scheme for your Simla, please refer to the black and white photos of Ed's plane and the reminder cues as posted earlier for accurate placement. The striping positions are quite precise, and as I've said earlier, are the best test for the accuracy of the model. Where the lines naturally fall when using the cues will show if the changes we made to the final design are an improvement, and match Ed's plane better. I am very interested in how this comes out; I'm looking forward to where the black "dash" and other stripe lines will fall on your model compared to mine. For example, the black "dash" basically runs on a line from the spinner, and intersects the wing...the top of the dash runs close to the top of the wing. The main black stripe tucks just below the wing L.E., and continues straight to disappear into the fuselage bottom. The red/black top stripe runs about 1/2-3/4" above the dash, and after it turns black, tucks under the stab so that it touches the bottom part of the stab airfoil. The position of the black and red on the stab and fin is also very percise, and touches in certain positions. This part I felt was very good on the prototype.

Good luck with the paint

Duane

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Duane,

I have been studying the black and whites and I have a couple of questions. First, it appears that the upper red and lower black on the fuselage are parallel to one another. Is that correct? Second, If the answer to question one is yes, then the top of the dash appears to run parallel to those same lines, which means the bottom of the dash must be angled downward, correct?

Also, some guesstimates of the gaps between the upper red and the top of the dash would be helpful. And where does the black exit the rear of the wing at the TE ? That is to say, does it exit on the center line of the TE, above the center line, Or below the center line?

The bottom line here is what to use as a datum line; the neutral thrust line or the angle of incidence through the wing root or what? It is important to know where to begin since all lines and measurements would be determined from that point as the paint scheme is laid out. What do you think?

Bill

PS- Yes those numbers are weights, but somehow the wing halves came out weighing about the same.

kingaltair

My Feedback: (4)

billberry189

My Feedback: (1)

Duane,

Any measurements would be helpful at this point. I am using a TLT dual switch and charging jack and I was hoping that I could somehow bury it in the black dash. Also, the width of the black stripe on the stab lower leading edge would help establish the upper fuselage red/black line. Preliminary layouts are leaving me with a very small gap between the top of the dash and the bottom of the red stripe. It's only about 1/4". On Ed's Simla it appears to be3/8 to 1/2".If the top of the dash is in line with the thrust line then the gap between it and the red line will be determined by where the red/black line intersects with the bottom of the stab.

I am planning on spraying the whole airframe white and then laying out the thrust line on the fuselage sides. I will then layout the rest of the scheme in relation to the thrust line, stab, and the wing. If all goes well, it should replicate Ed's scheme fairly well. At least I hope so.

Bill