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SIMLA BUILD THREAD

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Old 12-22-2011, 03:54 PM
  #626
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Jeff,

You pretty much hit the nail right on the head with your suggestions. It's exactly what I have been planning since the first thought of a second Simla. One thing though; the four or five ribs that I was refering to are the ribs closest to the wing tip. In kit one they were not lightened, but solid ribs. Also, I was thinking of 3 to 4 inch LE covering and 2-3 inch TE covering with 3/8 inch widecap strips,and 1/16 webbing on the spar. I am even thinking about paying more attention to my use of adhesives and just how much I use so that I don,t over do it unnecessarily(I tend to pile on the glue to excess). Through experimentation I have observed that the penetration of my glues is relatively unaffected by extra coats.ie extra glue does not necessarily make a better joint.

Thanks for the reply,
Bill
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Old 12-22-2011, 05:06 PM
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Bill,
Good, glad we saw the same light.

As for me, I would coat it with film. IMHO a huge weight savings there. Another idea, since you are now lightening the model you can probably go with 5/32 wire on the lg mains instead of the 3/16 I provide in the kit. Let me know if you want them, I'll bend a set for you. BTW: the prototypes Duane, Kevin and I built have 5/32 wire.

As you mentioned, you can the cut the centers out of the outboard ribs. Obviously, there is less stress and moment on the wing the farther out from the cg. So, yes you could remove more weight in the last 4-5 ribs/cells. Removing more and more as you near the tip, like no shear webs in the last two ribs/cells. Make sure the wing tip is very light (or eliminated altogether) so as not to stress the last few ribs/cells (if you significantly lighten them).

Could probably actually lighten the 3/4 x 3/4 leading and top edge of the fin. Cut lightening holes in with a good scroll saw. There may be other opportunities in the fin, too.

Duane has already mentioned how Ed hand picked every single sheet and stick of wood in his kits, he had to, he was in national competition. Of course, as a "kitter" I don't have that luxury without significantly increasing the cost. It will be interesting to see what you come up with Bill. Write or call me if you need help in getting to that point.
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Old 12-22-2011, 06:55 PM
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Jeff,

Bend them and I'll use them. And thanks again for the suggestions and theinterest. I was planning on reducing the size of the tail feather framing balsa as well as lightening holes in all of their surfaces, including the rudder and elevator halves. I suppose a framing structure similar to the Taurus stabilizer might alsobe a way to go to lightenthe Simla stab. Just somethoughts in abstraction.

Bill

PS- And don't worry, I completely understand the required limits created by cost effectiveness in producing your kits.And theycontinue to be terrific kits. As Duane suggested early in the build, I am thinking outside of the box and kind of enjoying the process of doing so. My continued purpose is to maintain the overll integrity of the original Simla design while dabbling with somehopefullycreative improvements.
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Old 12-22-2011, 07:42 PM
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I wrote the two previous posts while at work and was thinking about the "Simla Lite" on the way home (45 min drive, plenty of time to think and a long day). I, too, thought about flattening the fin, maybe make it around 3/8 wide. Would lose a lot of weight there.

I'm not telling you anything new when I say you just got to be careful you don't lose so much weight in any one specific area where you are forced to add weight for counter balance!! [X(]

I have talked to Duane and others about creating "Lite" versions of my kits. All of them would benefit and would probably reduce cost, too. Just got to find the time to do it!
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:19 PM
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Jeff,

I will certaintly volenteer to help achieve that Sima Lite goal. Just thinking way out there, but how about a 65 powered Simla Lite with the 120 or maybe a gas power plant. Talk about vertical performance.......

Bill
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:10 AM
  #631
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: billberry189

Has there been any more discussion on the ''Simla Fly In''( for lack of a better name)? I have really begun to look forward to such a gathering. More great good fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill
I was planning on sometime next year...most likely the fall of 2012, maybe around the anniversary of Simla's first flights on Oct 2, 2010. Of course, we have to get some more Simla(s) completed besides mine and Kevin's. That means you too Jeff [8D]...and bring your King Altair with you.

I will try to get permission to use Triple Tree...the sight of Simla's first flight.

Duane
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jjpetro

Another idea, since you are now lightening the model you can probably go with 5/32 wire on the lg mains instead of the 3/16 I provide in the kit. Let me know if you want them, I'll bend a set for you. BTW: the prototypes Duane, Kevin and I built have 5/32 wire.
There is a reason you went to 3/16"...the 5/32" "wobbles" and bends back a lot.
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:19 AM
  #633
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: jjpetro

I wrote the two previous posts while at work and was thinking about the ''Simla Lite'' on the way home (45 min drive, plenty of time to think and a long day).

I have talked to Duane and others about creating ''Lite'' versions of my kits. All of them would benefit and would probably reduce cost, too. Just got to find the time to do it!
Wait a minute...think of the Taurus II during those "drives", and forget about the "lite kits". You are like too many inventive genii, (gene-e-us-es)...too many ideas all at once.

Duane
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:09 PM
  #634
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Duane,

Multi-tasking!!!!!!

Bill
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Old 12-24-2011, 08:04 AM
  #635
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: UStik

Duane, Ed might have been concerned about twisting of the swept wing. Besides, there was obviously very light balsa available so there was no real problem sheeting the whole wing. The ''carrier wing'' has diagonal braces to stiffen it against torsion, that's why I think that might be the reason.

And as to the AUW, didn't Kevin Clark do a lightweight job with his Simla?
Yes, at first I had it at 8.9 pounds dry. I had read the scale wrong and the actual dry weight was 8.43 pounds. I used the wood that came with the kit and did not use contest balsa anywhere. The big weight savings was to sand everything as paper thin as possible and Monokote covering. I did a lot of shaving wood from the plank insides. I did not make any holes in ribs/tips at all. There is no doubt in my mind that if contest balsa was used coupled with placing holes in every piece that was not structural the weight could be close to 7 pounds.
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Old 12-24-2011, 05:53 PM
  #636
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Default RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

Just a moment to wish everyone Season's Greetings, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year. I hope that all of you realize your hopes and dreams in the new year!

Bill
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:14 AM
  #637
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OK...we're into the new year...so is anybody out there working on their Simla?? Has anyone new to the list started a NEW Simla? Inquiring minds want to know.

Duane
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:16 AM
  #638
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Hehehe, just received my Simla kit and have been picking through this thread. One question I have is, what wingspan Simla are you guys building? Didn't really see anything in the thread. TIA!!

Duane, keeping a late 2012 date for a Simla get together is a great idea, I might be able to get her built by then!

FB
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:31 AM
  #639
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So far everyone has built the most well-known version of the Simla...the one on the back cover of the August 1965 RCM. This one had the full 102" wingspan, and had the larger aileron modification. That mod gave Ed's Simla its unique wingtip look, (compare the wingtips with Ed holding it vs the young helper...notice the thinner ailerons.

The reason we have been building the original has been that so far everyone has wanted to get a faithful reproduction of Ed's plane before he cut the wing down to 96" for the NATS. I full expect that someone will be the first to opt for the "clipped-wing" 96" version, (which of course is still pretty big).

The 102" Simla is pretty impressive in the air, (while flying and while performing maneuvers), and reminds you of a "Jumbo-jet" while on approach for landing. When I let (then) Model Aviation editor Michael Ramsey test-hop the plane in October of 2010 I was a bit nervous about how he would appraise it, (especially because the entire plane was developed from nothing but photos and 119 words of picture caption description), but I didn't have to worry. He described it as nice-flying and predictable, and was able to set her down on the mains while holding the nose up....and on the first landing.

You will love the way the kit goes together, and the way she flies.

Duane
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:53 AM
  #640
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Oooops!
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:54 AM
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Sorry to hijack......

Just got my Simla kit today and it looks great.

Table is full with a Pulsar bipe so Simla is next up

Very cool kit.

Thanks Jeff
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:24 AM
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Free Bird

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Old 01-06-2012, 11:26 AM
  #643
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Default RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

Thanks for the info Duane. I just might be the first and go with the 96" wing, my workbench may not accommodate the longer wing panels. But then I have an A-Justo-Jig that'll hold a six foot panel. I'll have to unroll the plans and see how it all works out. Now, I just need a Taurus II to complete my Kaz collection. Yes, I also have an Orion and a Tauri, both NIB.

FB
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:30 PM
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Hey one and all,

Hello again in this new year. I received my second Simla kit a week ago last Tuesday. I managed to open the box and check out the lumber and hardware.That, however, is as far as I have gotten. The future will see it becoming a 96'er with all the light weight tricks I can come up with, but for now I have Simla number four(?) to finish as well as several projects for club members to finish. I had plans to get some paint on my first Simla the last week of 2011, but due to a busy week of relearning to fly and especially land, I was unable to accomplish that task. The good news for me at least is that my instructor says I'm ready to solo and start flying on my own. The hope is that with alot of simulator time and practice in the real world I'll be ready when the Simla maiden comes about. Busy, busy,busy.................

Bill
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Old 01-18-2012, 10:11 AM
  #645
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Default RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

This pic may be somewhere in the multiple pages of posts, if so, sorry. A friend of mine sent me a stack of old RC flying mags and I came across this ad in the 1965 Model Airplane News. Enjoy.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:42 PM
  #646
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: airbusdrvr

This pic may be somewhere in the multiple pages of posts, if so, sorry. A friend of mine sent me a stack of old RC flying mags and I came across this ad in the 1965 Model Airplane News. Enjoy.
Appreciate the contribution, but compared to all 102 pages of the Ed Kazmirski's Taurus thread, this thread is relatively small with "ONLY" 26 pages. It's a good idea for folks to familiarize themselves with the earlier pages to see what's there...you won't regret the time spent. The very first group of pictures on page ONE of this Simla thread showcases this picture.

It took a while to find it, but I found the original references and discussion of this photo in the Ed Kaz Taurus thread first on page 34, (post 836), and then in more detail on page 88, (post 2189).

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_76...88/key_/tm.htm

I am nearly certain that this is the FIRST photo of the Simla that we have in our possession for the reasons mentioned in the other thread, (no visible linkages, control surfaces down etc). Looks like it was brought up to Ed's living room for a photo in front of the drapes. All other photos were taken at a flying field site.

Duane
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:03 PM
  #647
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Well, now that I'm over the creeping crud, the holidays, making the control horn arrangement for the elevator, and practicing glassing on the tail surfaces, I'm finally back to building. And, as usual, I have a couple questions.

- Reviewing all the images in the build thread, it looks like the two bottom pieces towards the nose must be made removable to access the fuel tank, wing bolts, etc. And also the servos, since, at least as designed, that long top is glued on. Has anyone thought about cutting that long top deck and making part of it removable?

- Following the directions to pinch the tail together so it was the same width as shown on the plans (7/8-inch), the tail is wider than the rudder post and wider than the vertical stab. Based on the images in this thread, it *looks* as though the width of the tail from the trailing edge of the stab to the rudder post equals the width of the rudder post, and the width of the vertical stab. (That is, there does not appear to be a ledge where the vertical stab meets the fuse. In the images below, you can see that the width of the tail is greater than the width of the stab and rudder post.) Before I glue in any of the bottom planking, I need to know if I have to cut the tail apart (again) and make it much more narrow.



- The images in the thread seem to show that the sides of the long top deck are the same width as the sides of the fuse. I've included an image that shows that this is not the case with my build, even though the width of the fuse is pretty much governed by the bulkheads. Unless told otherwise, I'm just going to live with it and sand away.



- The very aft top block that fits against the horizontal stab and beneath the vertical stab is 3/4-inch thick. The gap beneath the vertical stab and the fuse is a hair less than 1/2-inch. This looks like a heck of a step between the middle top block and the aft top block that will need to be contoured to match. Is this what other builders had to work with or do I need to build up the base of the vertical stab to create a larger gap?





- There's quite an overhang to the top block at the nose. I'm assuming it's just to provide a fudge factor.



Many thanks (and Happy New Year!),
Richard

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Old 01-21-2012, 04:14 PM
  #648
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Richard,

Try again to load some photos. A picture is worth a thousand words and all that jazz.Gaps in surfaces and ledges in transitions are not typically what you want to have. Without actually seeing the problem areas I hesitate to offer any advice except to say that on my Simla the tail feathers were fitted gap free and with smooth transitions. And as I remember little to no filler was used to create a smooth tight fit of all surfaces.

Like you, I have finally navigated my way through the holidays, a move, and starting a new job to find myself ready to continue on the more important stuff like my Simla build. Tomorrow looks like a great day to finish prepping the fuselage for paint. And considering that all I need to do is finish sand the tail feathers, it should not be difficult to accomplish that task. Hopefully paint is in the very near future (as in next week).

Bill

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Old 01-21-2012, 05:56 PM
  #649
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Okay, I edited my previous post and added the images in-line. The upload function still isn't working for me.

Richard
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Old 01-23-2012, 06:23 AM
  #650
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The aft block, (that comes in contact with the stab) at the rear where it hits the stab, is shaped on the bottom to conform to the stab's airfoil. I added my aft block before adding the vertical fin, and cut a center slit in it to accept the fin. Make sure your top block is nice and rounded...and corresponds to the side view of the plan.

As for the rudder posts that extends down, I believe you can add a bit of soft balsa to each side and sand to make smooth. In general, I like to sand as much off as possible, while still leaving structural strength.

We made two hatches, (behind the firewall, for access to the fuel tank area, and a second for radio access). The fuel tank hatch isn't absolutely necessary, but I prefer open access. There is adequate strength there. The fore-top block should be trimmed to meet the plan side view and top view. Be sure to sand to pick up the angle. I sand away a LOT of the fore blocks to make a trim nose section.

Hope this helps

Duane
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