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  1. #701

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Duane,

    I too used the dribble the CA method on the wing sheeting, but because I made my wing covers in four large sheets I was only able to CA the top half of the wing sheeting. It worked quite well. The bottom half of the sheeting I used white glue only.

    Bill

  2. #702

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Considering that I pooched the ability to hold the panels with the jig, I've been thinking (yeah, dangerous) that instead of creating a sheet for the bottom skin, I would get the strips fitted but apply them one at a time instead of risking warping the panels by holding sheets down with a bunch of weights. This would let me use the dribble method.

    After I had applied the large sheets to the top surfaces, I found a number of spots where the skin had not stuck to the ribs. So there was a certain amount of press-and-glue. I also ran CA along each rib/skin join. The top skin is *not* coming off. I wouldn't be able to do that if I create entire skins again.

    Cheers,
    Richard



  3. #703

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Here are my current thoughts on a servo layout. The rails are tack-glued in and can be tapped out if it doesn't look like this setup is the best.

    For the rudder wires, I would have to cut two slots, about an inch long each, into the former. This should not affect its strength.

    The receiver can fit on a tray mounted "on top" of the wing tube.

    Does anyone have any comments about this proposed setup?

    Thank you,
    Richard
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  4. #704

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Question: Is there some guideline for how much the two bottom blocks should extend above the level of the fuse?

    It also looks from the pictures that have been posted that the blocks don't fair completely smoothly into the fuse sides; especially the front block. Is this correct?

    Thank you,
    Richard
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  5. #705

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Richard,

    That looks about right. Now all you have to do is sand until the sheep come home!Make sure you round the contour from side to side. I used an eighteen inch long piece of 80 grit sand paper that was about three inches wide in a "shoe shine" motion. The sand paper mentioned hereshould be available at any automotive paint supplier. Goodluck and happy sanding!


    Bill

  6. #706

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Bill,

    I thought that was "until the cows come home."

    Did you use the same sanding method for the top blocks? I've got them roughed-in and plan to finish shaping them when I've glued them in (which won't be until after I connect the elevator and rudder linkages).

    Thanks for the information. If you go just by the plans, the two bottom blocks look like they are finished flush with the bottom of the fuse. The images that have been posted clearly show a rounded top to the bottom. (If that makes sense.)

    A couple members of my flying club dropped by this afternoon. They have just received their Simla kits and I showed them all my mistakes so they wouldn't make them. One is going electric, and the other also is mounting an O.S. 1.20, but plans to use retracts. Now that there's local competition, I'll have to speed up my work.

    Cheers,
    Richard

  7. #707

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD



    Richard,

    I used the same method on the top blocks, andthe bottom blocks front to rear, including the portion of the bottom aft of the wing which is planked.

    It's good to hear that you have members in your club who have been bitten by the Simla bug. Hopefully you will all share in the building and flying experience. As of yet I have found no one in either of the two clubs I am associated with who seems to share might interest and enthusiasm in the Simla. I guess I will just have to get her finished and take her to the flying fields. I would be willing to bet that some interest in the Simla would then be generated.

    And yes, I have heard it both ways with sheep and cows.

    Bill


  8. #708

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Remember, an orbital or electric sander is a big help on sanding those blocks...just make sure you are monitoring what you're doing so you don't somehow sand through somewhere. Both Kevin and I did a LOT of saning in order to achieve that "slinky" Simla shape...don't be afraid to sand away to make it conform to both the top and side views. It should not look the least bit "boxy"...or even Taurus-like, (see attachment). when mine looked like this, I thought it too much a a huge Taurus look to it and continued to sand to taper it further. The final plan changes should result in a thinner nose section than the original prototype.

    The side view curve of the spinner should be carried right through to the side view of the fuselage
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  9. #709

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Before I get carried away with sanding the bottom blocks, this is what I understand from the plans and from several images in this thread. These images include:

    - Side view in Post 108 by Duane
    - Post 117 by Bill
    - Last image (2 fuselages) in post 120

    It seems that the bottom blocks are inserted so they are flush with the bottom curve of the firewall and the two formers. (See my images.)

    However, as is seen in the last image I took, if the front bottom block is positioned as described, the entire bottom curve of the fuse, from the first former to the firewall, is going to be removed, as shown by the red box.

    Is this correct? I want to make sure because I can't imagine Duane and Jeff getting this wrong when cutting the fuse sides.

    The only way I can think of to retain the curve is to glue on some balsa to the bottom front block. But no-one has mentioned having to do this, so I'm stumped.

    Any advice will be much appreciated.

    Thank you,
    Richard
    aka Confused in Colorado
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  10. #710

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    ORIGINAL: rg1911

    Before I get carried away with sanding the bottom blocks, this is what I understand from the plans and from several images in this thread. These images include:

    - Side view in Post 108 by Duane
    - Post 117 by Bill
    - Last image (2 fuselages) in post 120

    It seems that the bottom blocks are inserted so they are flush with the bottom curve of the firewall and the two formers. (See my images.)

    However, as is seen in the last image I took, if the front bottom block is positioned as described, the entire bottom curve of the fuse, from the first former to the firewall, is going to be removed, as shown by the red box.

    Is this correct? I want to make sure because I can't imagine Duane and Jeff getting this wrong when cutting the fuse sides.

    The only way I can think of to retain the curve is to glue on some balsa to the bottom front block. But no-one has mentioned having to do this, so I'm stumped.

    Any advice will be much appreciated.

    Thank you,
    Richard
    aka Confused in Colorado
    Richard;

    Look at the first picture. You are correct that the shape of the bottom block must conform to the shape of the formers. To do that, you are going to have to turn that square box into a rounded fuselage. Remember in the article I said one of my favorite times when building the fuselage is the day the fuselage is transformed from box to slinky fuselage. You are going to see vast amounts of balsa disappear...the fuselage ISN'T boxy...as long as you have your balsa thick enough, you won't sand through to nothing.

    Look at the bottom fuselage picture in the article itself...that box is turned into the picture below it in a matter of 1/2 hour or so with an electric sander...JUST BE SURE THE BLOCKS EXTEND TO THE SHAPE OF THE ROUNDED FORMERS. It looks like yours are not quite high enough in a couple places. Especially if you use an electric sander, be sure to stop frequently to make sure you're not sanding something you shouldn't

    I assume you are going to make the hatches. Tack-glue them in place before sanding so the hatches assume the overall shape of the fuselage bottom. The formers and firewall have two different curvatures, so the hatches make take on a bit of a curved, strange shape, but the key is the side view shape of the fuselage should be maintained. The radio hatch is designed to be FLAT, so you can set the fuselage down on a table to charge the radio etc. The wing covers this, so you don't notice the flatness.

    Hope this helps...other thoughts??

    BTW-As for the area in the red box...I can't remember (without the plans) whether you lose all that fuselage, or if the block is RAISED toward the front so ONLY THE BOTTOM PORTION OF THE BLOCK, (as seen when inverted) remains as the hatch. Refer to the plans, or maybe Bill can help with that. The important thing is to remember to leave enough block so that the shape of the former is preserved all the way across...hope this makes sense

    Duane
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  11. #711

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Truth to tell, I'm still feeling more than a bit clueless. To me, it all sounds as though the bottom blocks should be thicker to allow sanding without removing the upwards curve of the fuse while simultaneously allowing a curved surface to the underside. And because the forward bottom block has been hollowed out, it is particularly resistant to being raised above the level of the formers while retaining enough thickness to support the hold-down bolts.

    I suppose the hollowed-out area can be partially filled with scrap balsa. Although laminating on another 1/4-inch of balsa to the bottom blocks seems like the way to go.

    To me, this is an instance of the instructions saying "Magic happens here." It's a trifle frustrating to a first-time builder.

    Oh, well. Onward.

    Cheers(?),
    Richard

  12. #712

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    ORIGINAL: rg1911

    ....it all sounds as though the bottom blocks should be thicker to allow sanding without removing the upwards curve of the fuse while simultaneously allowing a curved surface to the underside. And because the forward bottom block has been hollowed out, it is particularly resistant to being raised above the level of the formers while retaining enough thickness to support the hold-down bolts.

    I suppose the hollowed-out area can be partially filled with scrap balsa. Although laminating on another 1/4-inch of balsa to the bottom blocks seems like the way to go.
    Well, you should't have to add any wood to the blocks to get it to work. Like I said, just be sure the blocks come up to the curvature of the formers and you'll be OK. Draw a line on the blocks comforming to the formers, and see how much "block" is left...it should be fine. Do the same thing with the spinner to see where it hits the nose blocks you have, and see how much wood is in the corners where the sides meet the top and bottom.

    When I get home this evening I'll take a look at the plans and the photos I have of the area, but I think you're about to be amazed how a square block of a fuselage becomes a rounded "shapely" fuselage. Sand down to the curved formers, but NOT INTO THEM. As you sand away, the wood underneath "takes over". Still, hold the fuselage up to a strong light to look for thin spots as you go. You might have to add a little wood near where the top block meets the fuselage top block, and in the area of the engine compartment.

    BTW....Get outside when you are power sanding the square fuselage into a rounded airplane...there is going to be a LOT of balsa dust flying around. The electric sander with 80 grit sandpaper makes quick work of those square corners.

    I'll post some pictures!

    Good luck

    Duane

  13. #713

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Richard,

    Unfortunately, I failed to take any photos before I rounded the fuslage. However, I am sure that I followed Jeff's instruction where installing the fuse blocks is concerned. And yes, I also used a power sander to "rough out" the general shape and then finished with the shoe shine sanding technique. The only place that became too thin was the top block right at the fire wall, so I used a little filling glaze to cover the thin areas and then took great care not to sand through it a second time. After I glassed the fuse, the thin areas were plenty strong. One other thing, I glued the nose ring in place before I sanded the blocks. Just mount your engine with the spinner attached and use it as a guide to position the nose ring. I used epoxy for this step because it gave me plenty of time to get the nose ring positioned properly.

    As far as the bottom contours are concerned, just follow the bottom shape of the formers and nose ring and you will get the correct shapes. Remember, as Duane said sand to the shape of the formers not into the formers

    Bill

    PS- Starting on page two there are pictures of the finished shape throughout the thread.

    Bye-Bye

    PPS- I will post some photos of my hatch blocks soon. I used four hold down bolts on each hatch, however Duane pointed out that Jeff did it with one bolt for the entire hatch system. I thought about it for a minuteand came up with a one bolt plan for Simla number two.

  14. #714

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Richard,
    My fuse bottom looked much like yours before I went to work on it with a razor plane and sanding block. Yes the fuse sides were higher than the hatches. The key is to form them to follow the shapes defined by the fire wall, F2 and F3. Just sand them to make a smooth transition from one bulkhead to the next. After sanding to final shape, I used strips of 1/64 ply to line the inside edge of the fuse sides. This will support the soft balsa sides where they come to a point. You will of course need to sand the width of the hatches to allow for the '64th ply. I added two 1/8th dowels to the fuel tank compartment hatch with corresponding holes in the fire wall. Then I added a small ply faced block of balsa to rear of that hatch so a 3/16 dowel from the front of the back hatch going through F2 will lock it in place. The back hatch has two magnets at it's rear to hold it in place.
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    Thom
    AMA #73928, Simla #4, Ultra Sport Brotherhood #138

  15. #715

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    thom25,

    Nicely done!

    Bill

  16. #716

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    If you look at the two fuselages together in post #120, (in different stages of completion), you will see it pretty well illustrated. My fuselage is on the right and Kevin's on the left. When you look closely at mine, you will see ONE HALF of the fuse has been shaped, the other hasn't, (the side facing away from the camera). Notice how the fuselage sides stick up above the block just like yours. When you do the sanding, all that "melts" away, and you get a nicely shaped rounded fuselage.

    As Bill said, get the nose ring set before sanding by mounting the engine and positioning the ring...then it's just a question of shaping away the excess balsa. That ONE PICTURE of the partially sanded fuselage bottom should be all you need, (along with the pictures of the nose ring position). Notice also how the hatches are rounded to conform to the fuselage shape.

    Be careful...go for the obvious extra wood, shaving it off with the electric sander, (or razor plane, but the sander is more fun...ie quicker), until you start to get close to the bulkheads/firewall/spinner nose ring. At this point, slow down a little. DO NOT SAND INTO THE PLYWOOD RING OR BULKHEADS. Hold the fuselage up to a strong light periodically to see if you can see light through it anywhere (which shows thin areas), then carefully "go for it" until you can see how it's going to look. It really is quite gratifying to do this part of the fuselage...all of a sudden the plane starts to LOOK LIKE SOMETHING like a Simla.

  17. #717

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Thom25,

    Wow! I'm guessing that this is not your first model. Beautiful workmanship.

    Thank you for the images and good description. I'm beginning to get a clue.

    Duane and Bill,

    The temp here is 36 with colder temps, snow and winds forecast into Sunday, so it looks like it will be a while before I can get the fuse outside to sand.

    While I'm waiting for the weather to improve, I've started sheeting the bottoms of the wing panels (and having my normal batch of problems). To make sure the sheeting adheres to the ribs, I'm applying the sheets individually. I did fit them as if I were going to glue them into one large sheet. Had just enough sheets from the two semi-bad orders from National Balsa (a company I won't use again). I've determined that CA is the only way to go to get the sheet to stick to the TE (and probably the LE). So wood glue on the ribs but CA when it comes to the edges.

    Cheers,
    Richard
    (who feels that he may actually finish the Simla before he's placed in the Colorado State Home for the Bewildered)


  18. #718

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Just wait 'till you get that fuselage sanded...you'll feel like you've gotten a lot done. Don't know THOM 25, but it looks like he's been building in silence, and really coming along. It's interesting how each of our models looks different, (as each BUILDER is using his personal taste in the way things are done.

    Let's get some Simlas done so we can have a fly-in in the early fall.

    If there are some out there who are building away anonymously, identify yourselves and let us (the developers and early builders) know how it's going and what you think.

    Duane

  19. #719

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Bill

  20. #720

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    As I finish sheeting the wing panels, it occurs to me that I'll probably have to use some body filler. Is it better to have it under the glass or on top? It's under the glass on the stabilizers.

    Thanks,
    Richard

  21. #721

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Richard,

    In theory the filler on top of the glass would be easier to sand without damaging the existing balsa wood. In my case,however, I cover all the balsa with two coats of urethane clear, sand it with 180 grit sand paper, fill any imperfections, sand the filler smooth,and then glass over the filler. But that is just how I do it. If I am really concerned about weight I skip the glass all together. In fact, I plan on foregoing the glassing process on my second Simla build.

    As a side note, the Taurus I am building comes in under 5 lbs with full gear and no covering on the wing and no paint. That includes dual servos for the ailerons, an OS55 AX, and all necessary hardware. No contest balsa was used either.Done, it should come in at about 5.5 lbs. I am using two coats of clear over the entire airframe followed by 180 grit sanding, then two coats of urethane primer sanded with 320 grit sand paper, and then color coats and two coats of urethane clear. After curing 1500 and 2000 grit wet sanding followed by buffing with 3M finessit compounds.

    Bill

  22. #722

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Bill,

    Thank you. Seems like a reasonable process. I do think I'll sand down the most obvious faults, first.

    With any luck, the light I see shining dimly at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train.

    Cheers,
    Richard

  23. #723

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Wings finally sheeted. Not a pretty sight. I may have to buy a carton of body filler. But I will finish and use them until I can build a new set. Correctly.

    Roughing-in the tips.

    BTW, I did discover that the extra thick CA (Bob Smith Industries) that I have, and that says it will cure in 15 to 25 seconds, actually takes more than two minutes to cure with dry balsa and the very dry atmosphere we have here (about 15 percent humidity). This gives me time to apply it to all the ribs and so on. I actually have to hit it with kicker.

    The weather is supposed to be nice through Saturday, so I should be able to hit the wings with a light coat of primer to sand so I can find the high and low spots; *and* sand the lower fuse and blocks.

    Cheers,
    Richard

  24. #724

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    Bill,

    You being the paint guru here, what should I do next?

    The three images show one of the wing panels after a coating of a bluish high-build sandable primer and then sanding. Since I knew I had some ridges where the sheets met, I used 80-grit paper on a long sanding bar and sanded with the grain (lengthwise).

    The areas that the sanding didn't hit are pretty evident. My question is: Do I continue with the prime-and-sand until the primer fills the low spots, or do I apply filler to all the bluish areas and then prime-and-sand?

    It didn't make much difference with the stab, since it's fairly small. But four panels like this could use up a lot of primer and/or filler.

    Many thanks,
    Richard
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  25. #725

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    RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD

    While we're waiting for Bill, let me just add my 2-cent's worth. Because of weight, I would never add filler to raise the height of certain parts of a wing panel. I use filler sparingly usually to fix small areas where there might be a crack or something.

    If it were me, I'd concentrate on the ridges where the sheets come together in order to bring them down. I would then sand the entire wing surface with something like 150, then 220 to try to make it more uniform, (again, I use the electric sander for my initial sanding, then switch to a block when I get close...it looks like you still have room for sanding. You can sand 3/32" sheeting, (I think that's what's on the kit), down to 1/16"without a problem. By lightly pressing down you can test for potential thin areas before you sand through.

    I like your "bluish" method for making the high areas stand out...good thinking.[8D]

    Hope this helps and good luck

    Duane


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