SIMLA BUILD THREAD
07-26-2011, 07:22 PM
#1
SIMLA BUILD THREAD
ON PAGE 78 OF THE ED KAZMIRSKI'S TAURUS thread, the announcement , (press release) was made of the first Simla prototype kit, (see below). This kit was the result of a great deal of work by many different people in different parts of the world. The Simla story and the build of this kit eventually became the basis, (please refer to the PDF), of the March 2011 Simla construction article in Model Aviation magazine). I am tremendously proud of this project and all the people I worked with. From that box on the table, the very first Simla in 45 years was produced. 
Recently Kevin Clark finished and flew the second prototype, and now Jeff Petroski, (owner of Classic RC Hobby, http://www.classicrchobby.com/ ), is officially releasing his beautiful, (and so far underpriced), Simla kit, (even the prototype kit was wonderful with everything fitting just like it should...and now the production kit is even better). Jeff tells me he has many advanced orders, and there will soon be nearly 50 more Simlas out there being built and flown...isn't that incredible? [X(] I think Ed Kazmirski would be gratified.
BTW...Just so you will be able to associate the names of people mentioned in this thread to their pictures, I've included a couple photos of the US part of the "Simla Development Team". Photo #1 before the first flight...Kevin Clark, (left..prototype builder and test pilot, and Jeff Petroski right...prototype builder & chief (only) engineer, and draftsman for the project). Photo #2...the three of us prototype builders pose together with my prototype after the second flight. This was the plane in the construction article, (Match 2011 Model Aviation).
Jeff packs a very informative instruction guide complete with photos as part of all his kits; it is hoped that this build thread will add to that, and be a place where building ideas can be shared. We have recently been discussing a Simla build in the EKT thread, with a lot of nice pictures etc etc. That discussion is around page 97. The Ed Kaz Taurus thread should be the general reference for all the background information on the Simla starting about page 51. In fact, the whole Simla project was "hashed out" right there on the thread in the month of April 2009, and you can see how it came to be.
Now it's time for a Simla BUILD thread...just information having to do with building. I hope you enjoy it.
Duane
Recently Kevin Clark finished and flew the second prototype, and now Jeff Petroski, (owner of Classic RC Hobby, http://www.classicrchobby.com/ ), is officially releasing his beautiful, (and so far underpriced), Simla kit, (even the prototype kit was wonderful with everything fitting just like it should...and now the production kit is even better). Jeff tells me he has many advanced orders, and there will soon be nearly 50 more Simlas out there being built and flown...isn't that incredible? [X(] I think Ed Kazmirski would be gratified.
BTW...Just so you will be able to associate the names of people mentioned in this thread to their pictures, I've included a couple photos of the US part of the "Simla Development Team". Photo #1 before the first flight...Kevin Clark, (left..prototype builder and test pilot, and Jeff Petroski right...prototype builder & chief (only) engineer, and draftsman for the project). Photo #2...the three of us prototype builders pose together with my prototype after the second flight. This was the plane in the construction article, (Match 2011 Model Aviation).
Jeff packs a very informative instruction guide complete with photos as part of all his kits; it is hoped that this build thread will add to that, and be a place where building ideas can be shared. We have recently been discussing a Simla build in the EKT thread, with a lot of nice pictures etc etc. That discussion is around page 97. The Ed Kaz Taurus thread should be the general reference for all the background information on the Simla starting about page 51. In fact, the whole Simla project was "hashed out" right there on the thread in the month of April 2009, and you can see how it came to be.
Now it's time for a Simla BUILD thread...just information having to do with building. I hope you enjoy it.
Duane
07-26-2011, 07:26 PM
#2
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
March 17, 2010 from Ed Kazmirski's Taurus page 78
Members of the press, (and anyone else)
I'm going to do something I thought I'd never do...post pictures of my shop. I'm sorry to say that I have this trendency to not want to put everything away, resulting in a real mess over time. Lately it seems I spend 1/4 of my shop time looking for whatever I need at the moment. Enough is enough. Now you can almost eat dinner down there.
I finally decided to clean the shop, (with the help of my dear wife-Penny). We spent five hours down there not only cleaning, but installing new shelving etc etc. The reason I decided to clean the shop, (other than it needed to be done), was that it is a kind-of tradition when I start a new project...in this case a very special project.
Let me point out a few features visible in the pictures. Kevin Clark, (Pettern flyer 76) built me a building table identical to the one he used for the King Altair build thread. Things are held into place with magnets that attach to the 4X8 piece of sheet metal on top...really neat. Hanging on the wall behind the table is the original thick wing designed for the Taurus II, (it looks even thicker because of the photo angle). Above the T-2 original wing is Ed's last airplane...the attempt he made to get back into the hobby in his 80s. It was a metal plane with a modern proportional radio. The plane is totally ready to go, but was never flown. I bid for it as part of Ed's estate from Chuck Noble.
To the left of the wing and metal fuselage is the "unfinished" Taurus fuselage built , (presumably ) by Ed, and part of his estate. It is extraordinary workmanship, and light as a feather. The elevator surfaces were sewn in. The stab is the same stab as the Taurus 2, but the fin is thick. I believe it was an additional attempt by Ed to increase drag, that he abandoned in favor of the T-2 with the traditional fin. The wing intended for this fuselage is for a Bosch airfoil, so I believe that in spite of the sewn surfaces, this was a new fuse than the T-2. I have primed the fuse, and done the sketch for the classic color scheme.
By the way..on the table is a box from Jeff at Home and Hobby Solutions. The box contains the parts for the SIMLA PROTOTYPE. The plane built by Ed back in 1965 without plans now has been re-created as a laser-cut kit. After a lot of care and work by several of you from around the world, (you know who you are), this kit prototype is the tangible result of our labors, and we believe it is as accurate to the original as can be humanly possible after 45 years and lacking any plans or written documentation.
New for Jeff, this kit had to be engineered "from scratch" rather than simply creating a kit from the original plans...a much harder thing to do. We will not know for sure just how close it comes to the original Simla until the prototypes, (three) are completed, photographed, and displayed from the same angles as the pictures we have, but we are confident we did the best we could.
The prototype kits will be built by Kevin Clark, Jeff, and myself...looking for problems and better ways to produce the actual kit. Wish us luck. We may create a separate Simla thread..copying over some of the posts having to do with the Simla from this thread. Can that be done...I haven't tried it before? What do you think?
BTW...Jeff's Taurus kit, box and all weighs in at 5 pounds 6oz, (the finished plane weighs about the same RTF). The Simla kit tips the scales at 10 pounds. I don't know what kind of indicator that might be as to its final weight, but it's an interesting number.
Thanks Jeff for letting me announce your latest creation.
Duane
Members of the press, (and anyone else)
I'm going to do something I thought I'd never do...post pictures of my shop. I'm sorry to say that I have this trendency to not want to put everything away, resulting in a real mess over time. Lately it seems I spend 1/4 of my shop time looking for whatever I need at the moment. Enough is enough. Now you can almost eat dinner down there.
I finally decided to clean the shop, (with the help of my dear wife-Penny). We spent five hours down there not only cleaning, but installing new shelving etc etc. The reason I decided to clean the shop, (other than it needed to be done), was that it is a kind-of tradition when I start a new project...in this case a very special project.
Let me point out a few features visible in the pictures. Kevin Clark, (Pettern flyer 76) built me a building table identical to the one he used for the King Altair build thread. Things are held into place with magnets that attach to the 4X8 piece of sheet metal on top...really neat. Hanging on the wall behind the table is the original thick wing designed for the Taurus II, (it looks even thicker because of the photo angle). Above the T-2 original wing is Ed's last airplane...the attempt he made to get back into the hobby in his 80s. It was a metal plane with a modern proportional radio. The plane is totally ready to go, but was never flown. I bid for it as part of Ed's estate from Chuck Noble.
To the left of the wing and metal fuselage is the "unfinished" Taurus fuselage built , (presumably ) by Ed, and part of his estate. It is extraordinary workmanship, and light as a feather. The elevator surfaces were sewn in. The stab is the same stab as the Taurus 2, but the fin is thick. I believe it was an additional attempt by Ed to increase drag, that he abandoned in favor of the T-2 with the traditional fin. The wing intended for this fuselage is for a Bosch airfoil, so I believe that in spite of the sewn surfaces, this was a new fuse than the T-2. I have primed the fuse, and done the sketch for the classic color scheme.
By the way..on the table is a box from Jeff at Home and Hobby Solutions. The box contains the parts for the SIMLA PROTOTYPE. The plane built by Ed back in 1965 without plans now has been re-created as a laser-cut kit. After a lot of care and work by several of you from around the world, (you know who you are), this kit prototype is the tangible result of our labors, and we believe it is as accurate to the original as can be humanly possible after 45 years and lacking any plans or written documentation.
New for Jeff, this kit had to be engineered "from scratch" rather than simply creating a kit from the original plans...a much harder thing to do. We will not know for sure just how close it comes to the original Simla until the prototypes, (three) are completed, photographed, and displayed from the same angles as the pictures we have, but we are confident we did the best we could.
The prototype kits will be built by Kevin Clark, Jeff, and myself...looking for problems and better ways to produce the actual kit. Wish us luck. We may create a separate Simla thread..copying over some of the posts having to do with the Simla from this thread. Can that be done...I haven't tried it before? What do you think?
BTW...Jeff's Taurus kit, box and all weighs in at 5 pounds 6oz, (the finished plane weighs about the same RTF). The Simla kit tips the scales at 10 pounds. I don't know what kind of indicator that might be as to its final weight, but it's an interesting number.
Thanks Jeff for letting me announce your latest creation.
Duane
07-26-2011, 07:43 PM
#3
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
I've already had a few nice comments about the building table. Kevin Clark has one, and I was able to talk him and his father into building me one, (for a price and some goodies). Let me answer some of the specific questions received thus far.
The table...(see the attachment below) A nice feature of the table is that the top can be lifted off and transported, and the rest of the table disassembled and reassembled elsewhere should it be necessary. The table is build of plywood. It is covered with a 4X8 piece of sheetmetal. Due to the fact it's not marine plywood, there is a small amout of natural "bowing" in places, so you need to go all over the structure with a level. Small shims are required here and there under the metal to get the building surface itself as absolutely level as possible, but once it's done, you're ready to go.
The ply upright pieces were made by Kevin in different heights. They are held in place on the sheetmetal by four magnets bolted to the plywood...very nice, and works great. They will not go anywhere unless you lift them off.
The magnets were obtained at http://www.magnetsource.com/airfieldmodels/ They are easy to chip, and are protected by the metal sandwich. They are also fun to play with if you're bored.
The wing tube is indeed a 1 inch tube, (outside diameter). I don't have the source, but I will find out and post. Maybe Kevin will answer that one.
The table...(see the attachment below) A nice feature of the table is that the top can be lifted off and transported, and the rest of the table disassembled and reassembled elsewhere should it be necessary. The table is build of plywood. It is covered with a 4X8 piece of sheetmetal. Due to the fact it's not marine plywood, there is a small amout of natural "bowing" in places, so you need to go all over the structure with a level. Small shims are required here and there under the metal to get the building surface itself as absolutely level as possible, but once it's done, you're ready to go.
The ply upright pieces were made by Kevin in different heights. They are held in place on the sheetmetal by four magnets bolted to the plywood...very nice, and works great. They will not go anywhere unless you lift them off.
The magnets were obtained at http://www.magnetsource.com/airfieldmodels/ They are easy to chip, and are protected by the metal sandwich. They are also fun to play with if you're bored.
The wing tube is indeed a 1 inch tube, (outside diameter). I don't have the source, but I will find out and post. Maybe Kevin will answer that one.
07-27-2011, 05:46 AM
#4
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Construction: As I said in the article, we went into the construction of the Simla from the point of view of wanting to incorporate and take advantage of the newer technology that has come along over the past 47 years. We didn't want to build a REPLICA of the Simla duplicating Ed in every detail. For those who may want to do that, we have details of Ed's methods we can share with you showing his aileron belcranks and single servo arrangement. Ed pioneered the "plug-in" wing concept, but he did it with a solid maple block with a slit in it, and some bolts to hold an aluminum plug in the wing to the block. This of course is the price he had to pay for being a pioneer...he had to make all his hardware, and couldn't just go down to the LHS, or order from Tower Hobbies. Ed was meticulous about wood selection, and built extremely light, but we didn't use hand-selected contest throughout. We made up for it by using a carbon fiber wing tube, and the smaller, lighter radios of today.
Ed was limited in adhesives, engine availability, covering materials, and as we said, the radios available. We are able to match the powerplant to the finished plane to get the performance the Ed could only dream of. The basic construction METHOD we used was the same Ed used back in the 1960s, a basic "box" structure with hollowed balsa blocks on top, and around the nose. If you REALLY want to try to save weight, the builder is free to experiment with sheeted formers in these areas while using the construction of the modern, commercially produced ARFs as a guide.
So go out and gather your engine and materials, and we'll meet back here to begin construction. I started on the horizontal stabilizer in order to get something done quickly, and get my building techniques back to acceptable levels. To be honest, right now I can't remember if I built the wing or the fuselage after the stab, but I'll check into that by the date of the construction photos.
It took me a little over six months from box to the first test flights. Judging what what I've been hearing, many of you are going to build your a LOT faster than that. Even though mine's done, I hope I can keep up with you in this build thread.
I believe you will LOVE both building and flying your Simla, and that it will be worth the expense and building time to own your own piece of modeling history. Not every plane you see at the field has a story like the Simla, (and its re-creation) to brag to your flying buddies about at the field. Feel free to contribute new building ideas and improvements to the building methods.
Talk to you soon, and we'll get started. Any questions before we start?
Duane
Ed was limited in adhesives, engine availability, covering materials, and as we said, the radios available. We are able to match the powerplant to the finished plane to get the performance the Ed could only dream of. The basic construction METHOD we used was the same Ed used back in the 1960s, a basic "box" structure with hollowed balsa blocks on top, and around the nose. If you REALLY want to try to save weight, the builder is free to experiment with sheeted formers in these areas while using the construction of the modern, commercially produced ARFs as a guide.
So go out and gather your engine and materials, and we'll meet back here to begin construction. I started on the horizontal stabilizer in order to get something done quickly, and get my building techniques back to acceptable levels. To be honest, right now I can't remember if I built the wing or the fuselage after the stab, but I'll check into that by the date of the construction photos.
It took me a little over six months from box to the first test flights. Judging what what I've been hearing, many of you are going to build your a LOT faster than that. Even though mine's done, I hope I can keep up with you in this build thread.
I believe you will LOVE both building and flying your Simla, and that it will be worth the expense and building time to own your own piece of modeling history. Not every plane you see at the field has a story like the Simla, (and its re-creation) to brag to your flying buddies about at the field. Feel free to contribute new building ideas and improvements to the building methods.
Talk to you soon, and we'll get started. Any questions before we start?
Duane
07-27-2011, 11:26 AM
#5
My Feedback: (1)
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
I have found two sources for 1-inch carbon fiber wing tubes:
TnT Landing Gear: http://www.tntlandinggear.com/composite_tubes.htm. The wing tube number is WTC-100 ($48), and the phenolic sleeve for it is SOP-100-C ($13).
Chief Aircraft: http://www.chiefaircraft.com/radio-c...cfwt-1x34.html for $39.95. However, they do not sell a matching sleeve (which seems a bit odd to me).
Note that the TnT tube lists a wall thickness of .042, while the Chief Aircraft tube lists a wall thickness of .035. I don't have enough experience with CF tubes to say whether or not the extra .007 thickness of the TnT tube makes a difference in the real world, or if the TnT sleeve could be used successfully with the Chief Aircraft tube.
I decided to stick with a matched pair and ordered from TnT.
Richard
TnT Landing Gear: http://www.tntlandinggear.com/composite_tubes.htm. The wing tube number is WTC-100 ($48), and the phenolic sleeve for it is SOP-100-C ($13).
Chief Aircraft: http://www.chiefaircraft.com/radio-c...cfwt-1x34.html for $39.95. However, they do not sell a matching sleeve (which seems a bit odd to me).
Note that the TnT tube lists a wall thickness of .042, while the Chief Aircraft tube lists a wall thickness of .035. I don't have enough experience with CF tubes to say whether or not the extra .007 thickness of the TnT tube makes a difference in the real world, or if the TnT sleeve could be used successfully with the Chief Aircraft tube.
I decided to stick with a matched pair and ordered from TnT.
Richard
07-27-2011, 11:59 AM
#6
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Hellooooo Duane, Mine came in last evening complements of Jeff's speedy response(ordered it on Friday) and UPS. The 120 AX came in the day before yesterday. Went to Graves R/C Hobby here in Orlando this morning and picked up a Dave Brown Glass filled motor mount part # 120F-1204, a set of Du-Bro 3" super lite wheels # 300SL, a Mac's muffler # 6990, and a 16 oz. Du-Bro fuel tank # 416. Came home and got started with the firewall mounting the motor mount and landinggearmount. After looking at the photos for awhile, it dawned on me that if I rotated the mount about 30 degrees Icould mount the muffler without an extension. It also brings the muffler closer to the nose of the fuselage giving it a cleaner appearance IMHO.
07-27-2011, 12:11 PM
#8
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
ORIGINAL: billberry189
Hellooooo Duane, Mine came in last evening complements of Jeff's speedy response(ordered it on Friday) and UPS. The 120 AX came in the day before yesterday. Went to Graves R/C Hobby here in Orlando this morning and picked up a Dave Brown Glass filled motor mount part # 120F-1204, a set of Du-Bro 3'' super lite wheels # 300SL, a Mac's muffler # 6990, and a 16 oz. Du-Bro fuel tank # 416. Came home and got started with the firewall mounting the motor mount and landing gear mount. After looking at the photos for awhile, it dawned on me that if I rotated the mount about 30 degrees I could mount the muffler without an extension. It also brings the muffler closer to the nose of the fuselage giving it a cleaner appearance IMHO.
Hellooooo Duane, Mine came in last evening complements of Jeff's speedy response(ordered it on Friday) and UPS. The 120 AX came in the day before yesterday. Went to Graves R/C Hobby here in Orlando this morning and picked up a Dave Brown Glass filled motor mount part # 120F-1204, a set of Du-Bro 3'' super lite wheels # 300SL, a Mac's muffler # 6990, and a 16 oz. Du-Bro fuel tank # 416. Came home and got started with the firewall mounting the motor mount and landing gear mount. After looking at the photos for awhile, it dawned on me that if I rotated the mount about 30 degrees I could mount the muffler without an extension. It also brings the muffler closer to the nose of the fuselage giving it a cleaner appearance IMHO.
BTW...I also used triangular balsa braces between the fuselage and firewall as much as possible without interfering with pushrods or mounting bolts. I put the triangular stock on both sides where I could for added strength.
What you have done with that "rotation thing", is a perfect example of thinking out of the conventional box, (which I'm sure we'll get a lot of). It didn't occur to me to rotate the engine 30 degrees, (I'm not great at thinking out of the box, and it turned out Kevin's engine didn't require an extension), so it looks like we have our first improvement suggestion. The need for an extension (for the OS .90 engine), was discovered way down the line for for me..one day I just said to myself...shazamm, [X(] I need an extension on this.
Good going...
07-27-2011, 12:35 PM
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Duane, I often start with the firewall because of all the drilling and it is the corner stone, if you will, of the fuselage. I'll be drilling the holes for the steering and throttle cables later this evening. Tomorrow I will be on the stab and fin, elevators and rudder.I have already cut out the necessary parts. I'll also be working on the fuselage tomorrow. I have the fuselge sides already spliced together. With any luck I'm shooting for Monday to have the fuselage and tail feathers done, ready for covering. As far as getting ahead of the build posts, I'll just slow down on the posting and follow your lead.
07-27-2011, 12:48 PM
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Yes the mount did protrude a small amount, but it was nothing that my trusty angled 3" grinder could not take care of. I am already anticipating come creative carpentry on the nose blocks.
07-27-2011, 01:21 PM
#11
My Feedback: (1)
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
ORIGINAL: kingaltair
I just got off the phone with Kevin who says the name of the company he got his Carbon Fiber tubes from was:
F3Aunlimited, (Google it). It is a 1'' tube
Duane
I just got off the phone with Kevin who says the name of the company he got his Carbon Fiber tubes from was:
F3Aunlimited, (Google it). It is a 1'' tube
Duane
Cheers,
Richard
07-27-2011, 01:28 PM
#12
My Feedback: (1)
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
ORIGINAL: billberry189
Came home and got started with the firewall mounting the motor mount and landing gear mount. After looking at the photos for awhile, it dawned on me that if I rotated the mount about 30 degrees I could mount the muffler without an extension. It also brings the muffler closer to the nose of the fuselage giving it a cleaner appearance IMHO.
Came home and got started with the firewall mounting the motor mount and landing gear mount. After looking at the photos for awhile, it dawned on me that if I rotated the mount about 30 degrees I could mount the muffler without an extension. It also brings the muffler closer to the nose of the fuselage giving it a cleaner appearance IMHO.
Could you explain what the lines drawn off-center do? (I read in the instructions something about off-setting the engine to compensate for the right thrust, but had no idea how, or why, to do it.) I have *very* limited model building experience.
Cheers,
Richard
07-27-2011, 03:27 PM
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Okay,Richard, let me see if I can explain this so that anyone can understand it.If you look at the top view of the fuselage at the firewall on the plan sheetyou will see two lines going forward to the spinner. The one on the left represents the center line of the fuselage and the one on the right represents the 2.25 degrees of right thrust. Now, look to where those lines intersect at the nose ring. Ideally the center of you motor out put shaft should intersect at that same point. Now the only way you can make that happen is to align your crankshaft center line with the 2.25 degree right thrust line.(1) In order to make that happen start by marking the center line of the firewall from top to bottom. (2)Next measure the gap at the top of the firewall between the fuse center line and the thrust line, then mark that line from top to bottom on the firewall and parallel to the center line you marked in the first step. (3) Look at the side view of the fuselage and notice the line that runs through the center of the spinner and measure from the top of the firewall down to that line. (4) Mark that line on your firewall ( if done correctly it should be at a 90 degree angle to the first two lines you marked on the firewall and running horizontally across the firewall. (5) This step you canuse a protractor of some sortto measure and mark the 30 degree counterclock wiserotation. (6) Next rotate another 90 degrees and mark a line that is perpendicular to your 30 degree line and intersects with the right thrust line and the 30 degree line. (7) Now line up the alignment marks on the side of your mount with these last two lines, making sure that the top of the mountis somewhere between the 9 and 12 o'clock position. I sure hope this helps you. It seems so clear in my mind, but then you would have to be a mind reader to see it exactly as I do.
07-27-2011, 04:31 PM
#14
My Feedback: (1)
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Okay. The light bulb is glowing, albeit a trifle dimly. (It's been a looong time since basic geometry.) Just to clarify, you're taking your measurements right from the plans?
Remind me to post what I think is an easier way to separate the elevator from the stab.
Many thanks,
Richard
Remind me to post what I think is an easier way to separate the elevator from the stab.
Many thanks,
Richard
07-27-2011, 04:32 PM
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Duane and all:
I actually purchased the tubes and sleeves from Radio South. I checked their website the other day and can not find them on there site anymore. I did a Google search of the manufacture (PBG) and found F3AUNLIMITED has them and their line of CF Wing Tubes.
Sorry for the communication break down.....
Kevin Clark
I actually purchased the tubes and sleeves from Radio South. I checked their website the other day and can not find them on there site anymore. I did a Google search of the manufacture (PBG) and found F3AUNLIMITED has them and their line of CF Wing Tubes.
Sorry for the communication break down.....
Kevin Clark
07-27-2011, 04:39 PM
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
The following are direct copy and paste from PBG's website for US distributors of the wing tubes.
Hope this helps.......
Precision Aero Composites
242 South Lowry Street
Smyrna
TN 37167
Ph (615) 220 0655
Cell (615) 336 7702
Fax (615) 220 0637
Email pac*********[email protected]
Web www.precisionaerocomposite.com
Desert Aircraft
1815 S Research Loop
Tucson
Arizona 85710
Ph (520) 722 0607
Email [email protected]
Web www.desertaircraft.com
Radio South
Tony Stillman
3702 N Pace Blvd.
Pensacola
FL 32505
Ph (850) 434 0909 or
1 800 962 7802
Email [email protected]
Web www.radiosouthrc.com
RC Model Enterprises
Jerry Stebbins
376 Lyons Road
Decatur
Alabama 35603
Ph (256) 351 8445
Email [email protected]
Budd Engineering
42076 Shadow Hills Dr.
Quartz Hill
California 93536-3755
Ph (661) 722-5669
Email [email protected]
Web www.buddengineering.com
Hope this helps.......
Precision Aero Composites
242 South Lowry Street
Smyrna
TN 37167
Ph (615) 220 0655
Cell (615) 336 7702
Fax (615) 220 0637
Email pac*********[email protected]
Web www.precisionaerocomposite.com
Desert Aircraft
1815 S Research Loop
Tucson
Arizona 85710
Ph (520) 722 0607
Email [email protected]
Web www.desertaircraft.com
Radio South
Tony Stillman
3702 N Pace Blvd.
Pensacola
FL 32505
Ph (850) 434 0909 or
1 800 962 7802
Email [email protected]
Web www.radiosouthrc.com
RC Model Enterprises
Jerry Stebbins
376 Lyons Road
Decatur
Alabama 35603
Ph (256) 351 8445
Email [email protected]
Budd Engineering
42076 Shadow Hills Dr.
Quartz Hill
California 93536-3755
Ph (661) 722-5669
Email [email protected]
Web www.buddengineering.com
07-27-2011, 04:46 PM
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
That's correct the measurements came right from the plans. BTW I just noticed at the top of the fuslage plan sheet there is a drawing of the firewall with the thrust center already marked. Start there and then go for the 30 degree counter clockwise rotation. I didn't see it earlier because the plan sheet was hanging off the back of my relatively narrow build table. Oooops, my bad!!
07-28-2011, 04:27 AM
#18
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
bilberry
Maybe you could provide Richard with actual measurements from top to bottom and side to side on the firewall for Richard to compare his offset and cross lines to...just a double check.
STAB:
The Simla stab span was one of the "givens" contained in the World Engines ad description, that allowed us to reproduce the plan. None of the pictures show the stab very well, so I believe that Jeff used his experience to come up with an acceptable stab airfoil.
The original prototype kit had a problem with the stab rib lengths that Kevin and I discovered...they were not long enough. What we did was to alter the way the stab was constructed, otherwise we would have built according to plans. The plans show the stab and elevators are built all at once as a unit with long ribs, then the elevators are cut away with a scroll saw, or sharp Dremel knife. Jeff's King Altair kit is the same way based on the original King Altair plan. Doing it this way has some advantages...you get a uniform airfoil being the main advantage. Some may feel it is easier as well. That's a matter of opinion.
I found it easier to build the elevators SEPARATELY, and use small, thin wedges of balsa, (easy to do), between the top and bottom...that way you build DIRECTLY against the plan, and don't have to make allowances when cutting out your elevators for the trailing edge of the stab and leading edge of the elevators. That scrollsaw really helps when cutting out the elevators each time you hit a rib. Building the elevators separately is the more "conventional" way to produce these, and I'm more comfortable with that method...plus with the particular situation we found ourselves in, it was the only way short of waiting for new stab ribs...remember the ribs weren't long enough!!
The plans show the trailing edge and stab LE going all the way out to the tip, with small pieces of balsa making the remainder of the tips. Again I found it easier for me to cut off the LE and TE where the tip starts, and make a one-piece tip...it's just me.
The stab ribs have alignment tabs on them making it easy to get a straight stab. I believe there is a hole in the stab ribs for inserting an alignment rod in if you so choose. The top side of the stab is sheeted right there on the board to further ensure that nothing gets warped. Once the top is sheeted you can flip the structure over and sheet the other side. Add your LE, bevel the LE of the elevators, and add the tips and you're ready for sanding. Be sure to add small pieces of balsa to support the hinges, (DuBro). For what it's worth, I also do the slits for the hinges before covering.
DON'T GET TOO FAR INTO THE FIN ASSEMBLY UNTIL WE TALK!!!
Maybe you could provide Richard with actual measurements from top to bottom and side to side on the firewall for Richard to compare his offset and cross lines to...just a double check.
STAB:
The Simla stab span was one of the "givens" contained in the World Engines ad description, that allowed us to reproduce the plan. None of the pictures show the stab very well, so I believe that Jeff used his experience to come up with an acceptable stab airfoil.
The original prototype kit had a problem with the stab rib lengths that Kevin and I discovered...they were not long enough. What we did was to alter the way the stab was constructed, otherwise we would have built according to plans. The plans show the stab and elevators are built all at once as a unit with long ribs, then the elevators are cut away with a scroll saw, or sharp Dremel knife. Jeff's King Altair kit is the same way based on the original King Altair plan. Doing it this way has some advantages...you get a uniform airfoil being the main advantage. Some may feel it is easier as well. That's a matter of opinion.
I found it easier to build the elevators SEPARATELY, and use small, thin wedges of balsa, (easy to do), between the top and bottom...that way you build DIRECTLY against the plan, and don't have to make allowances when cutting out your elevators for the trailing edge of the stab and leading edge of the elevators. That scrollsaw really helps when cutting out the elevators each time you hit a rib. Building the elevators separately is the more "conventional" way to produce these, and I'm more comfortable with that method...plus with the particular situation we found ourselves in, it was the only way short of waiting for new stab ribs...remember the ribs weren't long enough!!
The plans show the trailing edge and stab LE going all the way out to the tip, with small pieces of balsa making the remainder of the tips. Again I found it easier for me to cut off the LE and TE where the tip starts, and make a one-piece tip...it's just me.
The stab ribs have alignment tabs on them making it easy to get a straight stab. I believe there is a hole in the stab ribs for inserting an alignment rod in if you so choose. The top side of the stab is sheeted right there on the board to further ensure that nothing gets warped. Once the top is sheeted you can flip the structure over and sheet the other side. Add your LE, bevel the LE of the elevators, and add the tips and you're ready for sanding. Be sure to add small pieces of balsa to support the hinges, (DuBro). For what it's worth, I also do the slits for the hinges before covering.
DON'T GET TOO FAR INTO THE FIN ASSEMBLY UNTIL WE TALK!!!
07-28-2011, 06:12 AM
#19
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RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Hey Duane," how you doin"? In post 17 I gave Richard a note on where to find the measurements at the top of the plan sheet. Could youspend a few minutes and suggest what adhesives you use and where you use them? I am just curious what others are using. I use fast CA to glue ribs, spars, leading and trailing edges, followed by a coat of medium CA at all joints; thirty minute epoxy on fuselage doublers and formers and former braces; and white glue on truss work, longerons, and air foil coverings.
07-28-2011, 07:12 AM
#20
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
ORIGINAL: billberry189
Could you spend a few minutes and suggest what adhesives you use and where you use them? I am just curious what others are using. I use fast CA to glue ribs, spars, leading and trailing edges, followed by a coat of medium CA at all joints; thirty minute epoxy on fuselage doublers and formers and former braces; and white glue on truss work, longerons, and air foil coverings.
Could you spend a few minutes and suggest what adhesives you use and where you use them? I am just curious what others are using. I use fast CA to glue ribs, spars, leading and trailing edges, followed by a coat of medium CA at all joints; thirty minute epoxy on fuselage doublers and formers and former braces; and white glue on truss work, longerons, and air foil coverings.
I'm no expert, so I only discuss what I have done. For those who are new to building, CA should not be used on wing sheeting, or anything external that is sanded...it won't sand evenly and will leave raised areas. The same is true for epoxie, and Titebond. Don't use them anywhere on the surface than will be visible. There is a product called "Sigment" that is great for wing sheeting, and external joints like balsa blocks to the fuselage that will be sanded smooth later, but it probably is not strong enough for other, (internal/structural) purposes.
In case I forget to mention it later during fuselage construction, DON'T USE TITEBOND, WHITE GLUE ETC for the thin ply fuse doublers...bad things happen to thin plywood in the form of warped doublers that don't adhere...sometimes you learn from experience, (also know as "the hard way"), and sometimes you learn from the less than perfect experiences of others. The Titebond on thin ply isn't "fatal" or anything, it's just not "cool" or advised, since the thin doublers tend to bubble or separate unless held firmly in place till dried. I'm not afraid to laugh at my mistakes, (or ignorance) at times...when I reported what happened when I used Titebond to glue my doublers on the forum, someone "asked" me, (I think it was Andy Kunz), if I dried the glue for a while first before joining, (he knew I hadn't).
Kevin put me on to Sigment. What do others do?
07-28-2011, 07:30 AM
#21
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
ORIGINAL: billberry189
....I often start with the firewall because of all the drilling and it is the corner stone, if you will, of the fuselage. I'll be drilling the holes for the steering and throttle cables later this evening. Tomorrow I will be on the stab and fin, elevators and rudder. I have already cut out the necessary parts. I'll also be working on the fuselage tomorrow. I have the fuselge sides already spliced together. With any luck I'm shooting for Monday to have the fuselage and tail feathers done, ready for covering. As far as getting ahead of the build posts, I'll just slow down on the posting and follow your lead.
....I often start with the firewall because of all the drilling and it is the corner stone, if you will, of the fuselage. I'll be drilling the holes for the steering and throttle cables later this evening. Tomorrow I will be on the stab and fin, elevators and rudder. I have already cut out the necessary parts. I'll also be working on the fuselage tomorrow. I have the fuselge sides already spliced together. With any luck I'm shooting for Monday to have the fuselage and tail feathers done, ready for covering. As far as getting ahead of the build posts, I'll just slow down on the posting and follow your lead.
I'll be able to keep up with you, but I can't talk about the whole plane at the same time.
Duane
07-28-2011, 12:01 PM
#22
My Feedback: (1)
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Not to flog the topic of the firewall and various alignments to death, but the last kit I built didn't have an enclosed nose.
This is what I believe is the situation:
1. The plane of the firewall is 2.25 degrees off from being perpendicular to the fuselage centerline.
2. So that the drive shaft of the engine coincides with the fuselage centerline at the point it passes through the nose ring, the engine mount needs to be offset a measured amount to the left (looking from back to front).
3. When the nose ring is lapped into position using the kit's directions, its plane will also be 2.25 degrees away from being perpendicular to the fuselage centerline.
4. However, the fuselage centerline will pass through the center of the nose ring.
5. Thus, while the firewall, engine and mount, and nose ring are skewed 2.25 degrees away from being perpendicular with the centerline, the cowling sides are parallel to the centerline.
Have I understood this correctly?
Thank you,
Richard
This is what I believe is the situation:
1. The plane of the firewall is 2.25 degrees off from being perpendicular to the fuselage centerline.
2. So that the drive shaft of the engine coincides with the fuselage centerline at the point it passes through the nose ring, the engine mount needs to be offset a measured amount to the left (looking from back to front).
3. When the nose ring is lapped into position using the kit's directions, its plane will also be 2.25 degrees away from being perpendicular to the fuselage centerline.
4. However, the fuselage centerline will pass through the center of the nose ring.
5. Thus, while the firewall, engine and mount, and nose ring are skewed 2.25 degrees away from being perpendicular with the centerline, the cowling sides are parallel to the centerline.
Have I understood this correctly?
Thank you,
Richard
07-28-2011, 02:37 PM
#24
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
Sorry, Duane, I wasn't there to watch what you had done with the doublers. I learned (the hard way) a long time ago that it's polite to ask somebody before accusing them, hence I was just being polite. Many folks don't know that some glues can be allowed to dry and then used like a heat-activated contact cement. I learned it ages ago, so I assume many old-timers would know it.
Andy
Andy
07-29-2011, 04:38 AM
#25
RE: SIMLA BUILD THREAD
ORIGINAL: AndyKunz
Sorry, Duane, I wasn't there to watch what you had done with the doublers. I learned (the hard way) a long time ago that it's polite to ask somebody before accusing them, hence I was just being polite. Many folks don't know that some glues can be allowed to dry and then used like a heat-activated contact cement. I learned it ages ago, so I assume many old-timers would know it.
Andy
Sorry, Duane, I wasn't there to watch what you had done with the doublers. I learned (the hard way) a long time ago that it's polite to ask somebody before accusing them, hence I was just being polite. Many folks don't know that some glues can be allowed to dry and then used like a heat-activated contact cement. I learned it ages ago, so I assume many old-timers would know it.
Andy
BTW-don't use Titebond (right out of the bottle), to glue those thin plywood doublers [
], unless you're going to use a press until it dries, (which somebody else suggested will work fine).As far as building techniques, and the best way to use adhesives etc go, it depends on who was around to instruct you during those formative learning times in our lives. I think most of us that build have picked up some good techniques while missing others...that's one of the great things about a build thread, and why I reviewed some of the tips I've learned, (some the hard way), so that someone else who is new to building, or hadn't heard that particular "pitfall" might benefit from it, and not do the same thing.