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  1. #26

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    RE: Never to late...


    ORIGINAL: pimmnz

    Bem, given you said that there was a green gunge on the circuit board with the break in the copper land it would seem that the cells have leaked electrolyte through the negative battery lead. I would be concerned that this circuit is now U/S and the radio probably unrepairable.
    Evan, WB #12.
    Hi Evan,

    We will se what the expertise/repairmanwill say when I send the radio in for service/repair/conversion(if I decide conversion). It will be up to him to decide the condition of the electronics in the transmitter. I would think a company like Radio South that hasserviced Pro Linefor manydecades may have some spare parts like ausable circuit board for this radio - we willse. Since I'm in no hurrythe repair may well take months and maybe for example Radio South if I send it in to them have sources to get good usable spare parts needed even if they have not the spare parts themselves for the moment. It is worth a try.

    I hope this radio is not unrepariable since it is in very good condtion visually - I doubt if it has ever been airborne since I can see no sign at all of wear on outside on TX or RX/servo parts. It is seldom one can find a over 35 year old radio in this condition (visually)- exept the circuit board that had green gunge on it that is now cleaned away.

    I will throw some money on this radio and see if it help and consultthe RC "repairman". I'm rather determined to get this rado to work again, hopfully on both original 27 MHz and I hope also on 2.4 Ghz (switchable) and it will of course in such case have to be done very neat so the original appearance and functions are not disturbed (or as little as possible). I do not want only a museum radio, I want it to be functional and ocassionally used in such case (of course notto use the 27 MHz to fly on - that will be on 2.4 GHz). But I want all the original parts (RX, servos etc) to work.

    By the way - is Radio South the best or one of the best service/repair companies for Pro Line today?

    Anyone know when Pro Line Electronics Inc. company saga ended? (I saw a Pro Line ad in a 1980 Model Airplane News issue so I know the company existed at least to that year).

    /Bo

  2. #27

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    RE: Never to late...



    David,

    Much valuable information again, many options.

    But my plan is for the moment as follow as indicated by my previous post:
    1. Send it in for inspection, probably to Radio South if it is a consensus they are among the best on Pro Line today.
    2. Let the repairman do a thoroughly examination under the assumption it will be used for light and occasonally vintage pattern flying again.
    3. If the repairman say it is usable - let them repair/service as needed.
    4. Let then do a conversion to 2.4 GHz for flying but still have the original 27 MHz working for display purpose.
    The compatible 2.4 GHz system choosen must be such that the TX module can be completely hidden inside the TX case. Only the switch to select between 27 MHz or 2.4 Ghz and the 2.4 GHz antenna base can be visable on outside case.

    My radio is in mint condition externally and I doubt it has ever been airborne since I can not be seen any sign of wear. It is as close to a new in box Pro Line one can come probably so it is worth a try to get it in airworthy condition again. Chance to find another better Pro Line is slim. It has potential to be back in flying service again I think. So I will throw some money on it and see if it helps.

    /Bo


  3. #28

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    RE: Never to late...

    Cees

    Nice read Your coments. I suppose You are rather interested in the ins and out' of how a radio works under the hood.
    Yes, the Simprop was one of the best European radios (in middle to end) 1970th. Hanno Prettner used Simprop for many years to win serveral World Championships and Las Vegas Tournament of Champions. I know some of the top Swedish F3A flyers used Simprop also some years, for example Benny Kjellgren- I know because I saw it with my own eyes since I competed in at serveral occassionswhere he alsoparticipated (and he was the winnerof course..). One person ín my RC club bought in 1978 I think it was a 8 ch Simprop SSM Contest radio (to be used in a Curare) and it was nice radio but I never liked the bulky Simprop Contest servos he had (large and rather heavy about 60 gram). But the gimbals was very nice. Probably good quality components inside TX, RX, servos etc.

    Good to hear the Pro Line potentiometers are high quality, then they hopefully have survived the "beauty sleep" my Pro Line has just been awakened from now by me.
    I would be surprised if they used any low quality components in this Pro Line Competition Series radio, it was supposed to be "the best" and it had a hefty price tag back then.

    /Bo

  4. #29

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    RE: Never to late...

    Wayne,

    That is smart usage if diodes in a RX battery pack. I had heard if this long time ago but I had not seen it in any RX battery packs until now (probably what the diodes are for in the Pro Line RX battery pack).

    /Bo

  5. #30

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    RE: Never to late...

    Hi bem,

    I'm glad I was able help out.

    Fly4Fun,

    Wayne
    \"We do not stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing!\" - Benjamin Franklin

  6. #31
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    RE: Never to late...


    ORIGINAL: bem



    Anyone know when Pro Line Electronics Inc. company saga ended? (I saw a Pro Line ad in a 1980 Model Airplane News issue so I know the company existed at least to that year).

    /Bo
    Pro Line ended in the early 80's when Ace R/C bought it.
    Maneuver complete

  7. #32
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    RE: Never to late...

    Info send by PM

  8. #33

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    RE: Never to late...



    Hi,
    It is strange that the www.rchalloffame.org with it's over 1600 transmitters collection don't have a single word on Pro Line history, just two images.



    I have Googled some and Pro Line use negative pulse. Most other RC manufacturer used and usepositive pulse but Futaba use negative pulse also even today.



    I hope to have itconverted to 2.4 GHz with help of a Futaba TX 2.4 Ghz module since I have many Futaba servos and 2.4 GHz receivers already (for my Futaba 14MZ). I know Futaba has only the plastic case 2.4 Ghz TX modules that is suppose to sit inholder on the TX but I guess it could be possible to remove the plastic case of such module and built it inside a TX case so it is not visable (I do not want any large holes in the Pro Line TX case). A Futaba TM-7 or TM-8 (in 7 ch mode) 2.4 GHz module would be very nice if it was possible to fit inside the Pro Line TX case - a Futaba R6203SB (S-Bus) receiver for example could then be used together with various Futaba servos that I already have.

    /Bo


  9. #34

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    RE: Never to late...

    Hi bem,

    I have thought about converting an old radio to 2.4. I have never done it, but I was thinking of buying a basic 2.4 transmitter that does not have a read out screen, then moving all the electronics over to the old case. This may work better than trying to wire in a module.

    Just a suggestion, hope it helps.

    Fly4Fun,

    Wayne
    \"We do not stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing!\" - Benjamin Franklin

  10. #35
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    RE: Never to late...

    Back then $400 was at least $1320 and as much as much as $3,550 depending on how you calculate the value. I believe that the Consumer price index is the most common way of valueing the past worth of the dollar and that is $1,620


    http://www.measuringworth.com/uscomp...ar_result=2011
    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  11. #36
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    RE: Never to late...


    ORIGINAL: Wayne Miller

    Hi bem,

    I'm glad I was able help out.

    Fly4Fun,

    Wayne
    Wayne,

    thanks for clarifying that. My idea of its application was a little off.

    David.

  12. #37
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    RE: Never to late...

    ORIGINAL: bem
    I have Googled some and Pro Line use negative pulse. Most other RC manufacturer used and useΒ*positive pulse but Futaba use negative pulse also even today.
    I had a sneaky suspicion about that. But this is good news, at least for you Bo since you are on Futaba. HiTec, as mentioned in previous posts, should also be negative but that is probably of little consequence or interest to you.

    ORIGINAL: bem
    I hope to have itΒ*converted to 2.4 GHz with help of a Futaba TX 2.4 Ghz module since I have many Futaba servos and 2.4 GHz receivers already (for my Futaba 14MZ). I know Futaba has only the plastic case 2.4 Ghz TX modules that is suppose to sit inΒ*holder on the TX but I guess it could be possible to remove the plastic case of such module and built it inside a TX case so it is not visible (I do not want any large holes in the Pro Line TX case).
    Yes, this is possible. I have removed the module from an equivalent Spektrum module so that it could be incorporated into the interior of a Kraft Tx. The TM-7 module (no need for the TM-8 since your radio is 7 channel) might even allow you to re-purpose the built in antenna. You can probably remove the coax base on to which the antenna likely screws in and mount that on to the left top of the Tx between the 5th channel switch and the 7th channel lever. I think I saw space inside the Tx to do so.

    Where you might run into some issues is with the channel mapping. The order in which the channels are modulated over the carrier signal might be different on the modern day TM-7 module and the old Pro-Line AM RF deck. What this means is that instead of having channel 1 being aileron, it might be rudder - or something like that. As a result, you would have to connect the servos to the Rx in a different order that you would typically do with a Futaba Tx. Granted, a radio such as the 14MZ can probably map any channel to any Rx output but that won't be the case with the Pro-Line's encoder.

    Since the module also has "pinouts" for connection to Futaba Tx's, you (Tony or whoever does the conversion) will have to solder PPM, positive and negative wires to the module board and connect these to the module switch that will be added to the Tx. 2.4 antennas are usually wired to the printed circuit with what is called a micro FL (u.FL) connector. At the other end, the coax screw-on connector is called an RP-SMA connector (see picture).

    ORIGINAL: bem
    A Futaba TM-7 or TM-8 (in 7 ch mode) 2.4 GHz module would be very nice if it was possible to fit inside the Pro Line TX case

    Bo
    It's a matter of taking it out of the case, soldering the right connection cables to the pinout (one has to figure out which are the three pinouts of relevance: PPM, + and -) and shrink wrapping the printed circuit in some plastic. No doubt there are two or three IC's on the module board (and probably little else) so it's important not to touch and/or short these IC's - dead module otherwise... A piece of velcro can hold the module on to the back of the case above where you will probably install the new battery if the encoder can be relocated to sit closer to the front of the case. There's a good chance you will be removing the old battery pack case from the Tx.

    David.
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  13. #38
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    RE: Never to late...


    ORIGINAL: Wayne Miller
    I have thought about converting an old radio to 2.4. I have never done it, but I was thinking of buying a basic 2.4 transmitter that does not have a read out screen, then moving all the electronics over to the old case. This may work better than trying to wire in a module.
    Andy who works for Spektrum did just that with an old Kraft 5 ch Tx and put the guts of a 6 channel Spektrum in it. Here's the relevant post and an interesting related thread:

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9304600

    Personally, I think that jerry rigging Japanese electronics into American mechanics results in a radio with exceptional sticks with sub-standard innards. Not that a 5 channel or 6 channel 2.4 basic Futaba or Spektrum radio have anything wrong with them, but the potential for such old radios is so much greater!

    I think that using a modern full fledged encoder such as the MS2K with more mixing and radio capabilities than almost anything else on the market (possibly except for the 14 MZ) is the right way to go. If one is unable to use the existing Pro-Line encoder for that true vintage radio feel along with a simple 2.4 GHz module, then it is worth going all the way and retrofitting the radio with the MS2K. Of course, with this encoder one can connect just about any RF deck available on the market.

    "Wiring-in" a module in a discrete encoder/RF deck system such as Bo's Pro-Line is a very simple matter and conversion to any other RF deck in vintage PPM systems is in general very easy. Attach module with Velcro to case, drill 2.4 antenna hole, attach coax connector, connect antenna lead to module (if it's not already attached) and 3 module wires to encoder. Bo, if you look at the wires that go to the RF AM deck in your radio there are probably no more than 4: + (red), - (black), PPM signal (probably yellow, orange or some such) and antenna (we know this is grey or white from the pictures).

    Just thought it might be worth noting that exchanging RF decks is much easier than retrofitting Japanese electronics into an old set of sticks and pots which would need to be re-calibrated. Good luck with that unless you are an experienced radio technician. Of course, if one uses the existing encoder, the sticks will be calibrated to it and if one wants to produce a high end vintage radio with an MS2K encoder (a superset to ACE's MP8K radio system), then this encoder has all the features and computer programming capability to calibrate sticks to it easily and allows one to use any RF deck one wants.

    I guess my bias is coming through!

    David.

  14. #39

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    RE: Never to late...

    This reminds me of a friend that had an old table apprised, and it was valued like $12,000. He was very happy until the guy told him: and if it would be in original state (he had worked on the finish) it would be worth $40,000.

    You have a historic piece of equipment that will only increase in value with time. And the piece is in mint, new and unused condition. You want to modify it, and use it. If it would not be new and unused I might think of doing the same thing, in the case of a mint piece like this one, I would rally think it twice:-)

    Good luck

    Gerry

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    RE: Never to late...

    How many bit is the MP8K?


    Ed Cregger
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  16. #41

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    RE: Never to late...

    Gerry,

    I understand exactly what You mean. But classic pattern for me is to use the old planes (vintage or new build) and if possible some of the old equipement when possible. I for sure want my Pro Line for display purpuses but I also want to use it very lightly and with care on some sunny afternoon in nice calm summer days. To get the feel of good old days. I realize my radio will probably be worth more and more to collectors as times goes ifit is in 100% original condition. But if one wantto fly with it again it basically need a 2.4 GHz module inside to be more safe. Call me crazy butI want to use my equipement (with care). And when I will use this Pro Line radio - if it willbe considered airworthy by a RC repair company -it will beused at a remote airfild (ex military field) where it is slim risk a mailfunctioned radio can do harm to any people. Of course I have my Futaba 14 MZ that is rather bullet proof but I think this Pro Line is also rather safe to be used witha 2.4 GHz conversion with very little modification to the transmitter. I will make sure the conversuion is made such that the transmitter can be restored almost to 100% to original state. The physical switch between 27 MHz and 2.4 Ghz can be placed inside TX case and 2.4 GHz module will be inside TX casealso not visable from outside. The only hole needed to be made is for the 2.4 GHz antenna (and it can be hidden with some nice 27 MHz (in my case 26.825 MHz) frequency plate so a person that do not know it has been converted earlier can not see what was done before.

    /Bo

  17. #42

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    RE: Never to late...

    Hi,

    I have now e-mailed Radio South with information of my Pro Line radio and what I want to be made and also attached some pictures of external and internal of the radio so he can see the condition better. We will se whatTony Stillman at Radio South has to say.

    /Bo

  18. #43

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    RE: Never to late...

    Bem,
    As you found out, the Pro-Lines are "negative" pulse, or shift. If you send it to RSI, chances are he'll use a surface mount 2.4 module made in the US by Extreme Power Systems (XPS). XPS is alsonearing the introduction of their own 16 channel 2.4 Tx. RSI does not cut into the Tx casein order to swap the module (he might, but be sure you get accurate price quotes on the labor). RSI would need to remove the Rf deck from the module housing and configure a mount inside of the Tx along with the 27 mHz deck (might be a tight fit) and also incorporate a switch to select 2.4 or 27mHz. The easy part of using the XPS module is that it (XPS)does not care whether the encoder/the Tx isa positive or negative shift. I can use the same module in the Pro-Line, the Kraft, and the ACE MP8K Txs'. There aresome folks who have taken the deck out of the module and mounted it within the Tx too, it's really not difficult. I'm not sure if RSI uses any other manufacturer's modules. I do use a Futaba TM-8 in one of my MP8K unitsand have had no issues whatsoever (I did that mod myself also and I'm barely smart let alone intelligent! (just kidding, it's really not difficult). Good luck with themod and let us know how it works out.
    Mark

  19. #44
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    RE: Never to late...


    ORIGINAL: NM2K

    How many bit is the MP8K?


    Ed Cregger
    8 bit I believe (256 resolution).

    MS2K can be 10 (1024 resolution) or 12 (4096 resolution) depending on the PIC bought with the encoder kit. But we're talking encoders here.

    Whether the RF deck has the same resolution is another matter.

    David.

  20. #45

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    RE: Never to late...


    ORIGINAL: bem

    Gerry,

    I understand exactly what You mean. But classic pattern for me is to use the old planes (vintage or new build) and if possible some of the old equipement when possible. I for sure want my Pro Line for display purpuses but I also want to use it very lightly and with care on some sunny afternoon in nice calm summer days. To get the feel of good old days. I realize my radio will probably be worth more and more to collectors as times goes ifΒ*it is in 100% original condition. But if one wantΒ*to fly with it again it basically need a 2.4 GHz module inside to be more safe. Call me crazy butΒ*I want to use my equipement (with care). And when I will use this Pro Line radio - if it willΒ*be considered airworthy by a RC repair company -Β*it will beΒ*used at a remote airfild (ex military field) where it is slim risk a mailfunctioned radio can do harm to any people. Of course I have my Futaba 14 MZ that is rather bullet proof but I think this Pro Line is also rather safe to be used withΒ*a 2.4 GHz conversion with very little modification to the transmitter. I will make sure the conversuion is made such that the transmitter can be restored almost to 100% to original state. The physical switch between 27 MHz and 2.4 Ghz can be placed inside TX case and 2.4 GHz module will be inside TX caseΒ*also not visable from outside. The only hole needed to be made is for the 2.4 GHz antenna (and it can be hidden with some nice 27 MHz (in my case 26.825 MHz) frequency plate so a person that do not know it has been converted earlier can not see what was done before.

    /Bo


    The original Pro-Line rig is still safe to use on US 50/53/72 MHz freqs if maintained by knowledgeable technicians (Radio South). The problem is finding a flying field (club field) that will let you fly anything other than 2.4 GHz modern equipment, or so I have heard.

    I flew Kraft, Orbit, Micro Avionics and Futaba radio gear throughout the seventies (not to mentioned a bunch of Ace RC kits) without a single radio failure. In the Eighties, it was mostly JR, with one Sanwa thrown into the mix. Again, no radio failures at all. I flew A LOT in my twenties and thirties.


    Ed Cregger
    \"Practice makes prefect\"

    Saito Club Member #52

  21. #46

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    RE: Never to late...



    Hi,



    My Pro Line Competition Series '75 (7 channel) is now on it's way overseas to Radio South/Tony Stillman. He promised to try to mount a Futaba TM-7 2.4 GHz transmitter module inside for the conversion. If that for some reason would fail plan B be will be the universal XPS 2.4 GHz transmitter module (and a 8 ch XPS receiver). I hope all will work out with the conversion. If it does I might convert another old goodie I have - my competition radio from back in 1970th, an EK Logictrol super pro 7 ch and that radio has seen it's better days I'm afraid but it should be possible to get it in working condition again if one throw some money on it, we will se if I go that route later. I see that red Logictrol transmitter in the shelf behind glas door every day when I go into my office/computer room at home so I have thought more then one time to get it working again.
    I spent last evening packing my Pro Line, filling in customs declaration etc as seen from pictures below. It is well packed inside my Futaba metal case and I hope it will make the jurney over to US without any damage, and back here to Sweden.



    As a side note I found also yesterday I think the last ad Pro Line had in Model Airplane News (January 1980) since after that only ACE R/C Silver Series ads can be seen that year and as I understand it ACE took over Pro Line. So I suppose it was about that time old Pro Line era ended. Notice at the end of the ad it say "a subsidiary of Pace Industries" (that Pro Line became in 1976).
    I also found a "We visit Pro Line" article in Model Airplane News May 1978, I post it below if someone is interested.



    /Bo

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  22. #47

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    RE: Never to late...

    My bad. I forgot that you were in Sweden.

    I flew a few other folks EK Logictrol gear quite a few times and liked it. I also owned a Mexican made version sold by Hobby Lobby. Again, a problem free radio in my experience.

    Good luck in getting your Pro Line upgraded to 2.4 GHz. I'm sure that Tony will do a great job.


    Ed Cregger
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  23. #48

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    RE: Never to late...

    Hi guys,

    Anybody ever thought of a Cannon TX converted to 2,4 Ghz?

  24. #49

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    RE: Never to late...

    HI,

    This remid me of posting that my Proline Competition Series (1975) was converted to Futaba FASST with Futaba TM-7 module by Radio South. It works but the servos are not still (at rest) in neutral and I do not dare to fly with it. So it have to go back to Tony Stillman at Radio South for a second check.

    /Bo
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  25. #50
    doxilia's Avatar
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    RE: Never to late...

    Bo,

    Good to hear about the update on your radio.

    I assume the conversion was done as "2-band" meaning you can operate in 2.4 or in AM?

    Under which band are the servos not still?

    David


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