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TOC Laser

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Old 11-28-2011, 04:14 PM
  #1
speedracerntrixie
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Default TOC Laser

I have been following the Classic TOC Builds that Rusty and other have been doing and decided that my 33%Laser qualifies. Not wanting to jump on his thread with another build I'm going to do my build here. I do welcome any and all comments, suggestions. I am actually building two Lasers with the second one being put up for sale upon completion of the frame up. Gotta pay for an engine and servos somehow right? I have the Fuses all framed up at this point. The gear is CF and was found on fleabay. I have one set of glass parts layed up and will start the second set later tonight. I have decided to go with foam airfouled tail section. There was lots of debate on the Aerodynamics forum if this was going to enhance performance or not. I guess we will find out. The thickness of the tail section will only be 3/4" at it's thickest so the tail wires may still be needed or I will put in a CF spar to get them srtong enough. The Goal weight is 16 lbs and as of now the power choice is a DLE 55 and canister. Here are a couple of pics along with a couple of the one I lost this spring.



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Old 11-28-2011, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Rusty's recent plane turned out superb. Very Very well done.
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Old 11-28-2011, 05:54 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Are SRT's Lasers somehow connected to Rusty's Akromaster?

SRT you're not one of Rusty's "elves" are you...?

In any case - looking forward to these builds.

David
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Old 11-28-2011, 07:55 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

David, last time I checked I was not an elf lol. No this laser is a seperate deal then Rusty's. When I first started IMAC in '97 the Lanier/Godfry Laser was very popular. Most were powered with Bryson 3.2 or 3W 70 twins. For the most part they flew really well. After a few years of flying 40% airplanes, spending 10-15 hours a week practicing and keeping a huge budget to stay competitive, I decided I need to go with a smaller airplane and fly more for fun then have the " Must Win " attitude. It was then I thought about the Laser. The structure lends it's self to light construction, we have lighter and more powerful engines now, servos and batteries have come a long way as well. As luck would have it, I found a kit at a local swap meet. The finished product from that is the yellow laser pictured. It came out at 15.25 lba with a DA 50 and standard muffler. I did manage to fly it in 2 IMAC contests. She held her own in every respect except I could have used a little more power as Unlimited is quite power hungry. Yes it was only 15pounds and change but still had all the drag of a 33% airplane. Although I was very happy with the flight performance, there is always room to improve. The most noteable change will be the tail, foam with airfoil. The other big change will be the wings. Different airfoil, reduced span, larger ailerons.

The build will be a slow one so I am hoping that we can have lots of conversations about aerodynamics, powerplants, servos and everything in between. Like I stated earlier, the second one will go up for sale, it would be really cool if that person were to be someone who participated here so we both can give flight reports when finished.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:44 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

SRT, I'm very interested in this build. Like you (and due to back problems) I've competed for the last 2 years (been in imac since 99) with a 50cc plane instead of my 40% stuff. Had a whole lot more fun doing it too. Even flew the nats this year and was doing well till my engine crapped out on me. I'm very interested in building a couple of these after Xmas is over this year. Got several questions for you if I may.
1. Are you making this off of your own set of plans? If so I'd like to get a copy of them if possible?
2. What is going to be the new dimensions of this plane? Your other plane was 96ws 80 length.
3. How well would this plane balance with a cf tuned pipe or servos in the rear or both?
4. Would you be willing to sell cowls/canopies? Price?
5. Can you post address for the gear you got?

I've been building a couple 92" yak55sp for this season but love the toc stuff of my youth and would love to add a couple in my stable of planes. I've got an old cowl and canopy from an arc that was made in Mexico and the glass is very very heavy. I guess my thought process would be to use dle55 with can or cf tuned pipe, wood/foam airfoiled tails, and thin wings. Probably 9% thick root/7% thick tip for wings. Probably go for 92-94" ws is my thought. Also I have a cnc foamcutter if I can help you out in any way!!!! Thanks, Toby
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:07 AM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Ditto on the plans - I am very interested on the 2M one!
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Aresti-RCU

Ditto on the plans - I am very interested on the 2M one!
I don't have any real plans but if you are really interested I think there is a way. The difficult part is the fuse, I have templates for the formers and such. I could easily frame up another fuse for you and then provide enough information that you could cut or have a set of wings cut, build a tail section and of course I will provide info on where to get the landing gear. I can also let you know what equipment I am running in mine as far as motor ESC batteries and such. Although any current F3A setup will work. There are a couple slight changes that could be made that would make yours fly better then mine.

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Old 12-05-2011, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Also interested in plans or tempates etc... so what is the current size of the one being built ?
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:07 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Scott, the current pair being built will have 90" spans and 80" length. Projected weight with a 50-55cc gasser and canister should be around 16.5 lbs max. I had one at 15.25 lbs powered with a DA 50 stock muffler setup and it just needed a smidge more power. I currently have a 2M pattern version as well that I am very happy with. Power is a Himax 6330 200 with the standard 10s setup.

Shawn


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Old 12-05-2011, 06:53 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Shawn,

This thread started on 1980 TOCLaser 200 by Ulery moved here at your request.

The cowl dimensions look good, the wheel pants are slightly smaller than plans call for but I can live with it. Name your terms and let's get an agreement on the cowl, pants and canopy.
I'll also need the CF gear and spinner.

You're a great help and Iappreciate your time,

J e r
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: JerMilosek

Shawn,

This thread started on 1980 TOCLaser 200 by Ulery moved here at your request.

The cowl dimensions look good, the wheel pants are slightly smaller than plans call for but I can live with it. Name your terms and let's get an agreement on the cowl, pants and canopy.
I'll also need the CF gear and spinner.

You're a great help and Iappreciate your time,

J e r

Jer, The Fiberglass parts set will be 150.00 plus shipping. I will PM you and we will work out the details. As for the CF Spinner and gear here are the links. They also have CF wing tubes. The 38mm tube works in place of a 1.5" tube. The gear has to have a section cut out of it and mounted as a 2 peice gear. The spinners come cut but not drilled. Ihave ordered from them and the shipping was reasonable and delivery time was not as long as expected. I think this is the same guy who produces parts for Pilot R/C. TnT landing gear has an aluminum wing tube that comes with the sockets for 21.00 or you can just get the sockets from them if you decide to do with CF

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbon-fiber...item336ec0a7b5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-0-inch-car...item4ab146ffaa

http://www.ebay.com/itm/38mm-OD-X-35...item336eea6fff


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Old 12-10-2011, 04:51 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

After a week of laying up glass I have some progress to share. All the glass parts are made for the two 50cc airplanes and I even got out the version I was setting up for a DA 85 and got it's parts layed up and got it to the same point of the others. Next will be the turtle decks. I am not able to find enough 1/4" sq spruce locally so I have had to order it. While waiting for that I will work on getting them on their wheels and start cutting foam. In the pictures you can see the hole that can be cut out should one want to use a canister exahust and the elevator servo mount. The elevators on the 50cc versions are pull pull from a single servo and the 85cc bird has dual servos in the tail

Shawn


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Old 12-10-2011, 06:04 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

If you don't want to wait for the spruce, I made the turtle deck on my TOC Laser using 1/4" contest balsa and CA glued 1/4" X .010 CF laminated strips on the top 3 longerons. The CF added the strength necessary without the weight of the spruce.
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Old 12-10-2011, 06:17 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

A definate option. I'm just trying to save some time as whatever I do I have to do 3 times lol. I was considering laminating a couple sheets of 1/8 balsa together with some 5K CF tow between them and then rip to 1/4" sq on the table saw. If it wasn't for the cost I would get some 3/16 CF tubes and use them. I considered a foam and balsa turtledeck too but I am currently out of foam.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:33 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Slow progress but the turtle decks are done, they are on wheels and I have all the glass parts mounted. Next will be the foam cutting. I actually made my own axles this time out. Took some 3/16" titanium and threaded one end to 10-32. A couple nuts, one on each side of the gear and instant axle. Got to get an engine and exahust on order soon so I can get the pipe mounts right.


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Old 01-02-2012, 06:42 PM
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More updates, don't be shy guys I would love to hear some thoughts. I will be cutting foam this week. Finally finished all the templates. Over the weekend I I made up some wing sockets. They are one layer of 4 oz fiberglass wound with 3K CF tow to add some strength. Got the cowl mounts cut as well. The arched peice will be glued to the top and the other peices will go in the bottom corners. Screws will pass through F-1 and into blind nuts in these tabs to secure the cowl.

As a side note, I have a 3rd fuse that is being set up for a DA 85. After checking that the canopy from a Great Planes 50cc Yak 55M was available, I decided to make that one into a Stephens Acro.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:09 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

speedracerntrixie,

Nice build you have going here!

I'm curious how you went about making the wing tube sockets?

RG
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:38 PM
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Ralph, It is actually quite a process. I start off with a 1.5" dowel wrapped in mylar packing tape. The surface of the dowel then gets waxed with mold release wax. I wet out the cloth and roll the dowel picking up the cloth at the same time. This gets the dowel wrapped with cloth. I let that cure up and then with an xacto knife I split the tube lengthwise. This is the only way to remove it off the dowel. I apply the release wax onto the actual wing tube next and slide the sleeve in place. I then seam the sleeve with a strip of cloth and lastly wrap with the CF tow. After that cures the sleeve is rotated and broken free from the wing tube. What I end up with is a sleeve that is always a perfect fit to the tube I intend to use. It is alot of work but the sockets as pictured weigh .4 oz and will never wear out, get dirty ect.
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Old 01-03-2012, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

How long are the wing tubes...they look short?????

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Old 01-03-2012, 04:35 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Scott, they are 11" long. They look a little short due to them being 1.5" dia. Most 50cc airplanes are between 7/8" and 1".
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Old 01-03-2012, 05:44 PM
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ok.. still look short as we have about 14-16 inches in a 60/120 size plane , at 7/8 inch dia. and then we do a false rib at the end and tie it into the top and bottom skins.

plane looks great !!
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie

Ralph, It is actually quite a process. I start off with a 1.5'' dowel wrapped in mylar packing tape. The surface of the dowel then gets waxed with mold release wax. I wet out the cloth and roll the dowel picking up the cloth at the same time. This gets the dowel wrapped with cloth. I let that cure up and then with an xacto knife I split the tube lengthwise. This is the only way to remove it off the dowel. I apply the release wax onto the actual wing tube next and slide the sleeve in place. I then seam the sleeve with a strip of cloth and lastly wrap with the CF tow. After that cures the sleeve is rotated and broken free from the wing tube. What I end up with is a sleeve that is always a perfect fit to the tube I intend to use. It is alot of work but the sockets as pictured weigh .4 oz and will never wear out, get dirty ect.
OK, Great! Thanks for the explanation! I'll file that in the ole memory banks for future use!

RG
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Old 01-03-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: PatternPilot

ok.. still look short as we have about 14-16 inches in a 60/120 size plane , at 7/8 inch dia. and then we do a false rib at the end and tie it into the top and bottom skins.

plane looks great !!
Thanks. I tend to think most are overbuilt in this area. The 2M version of this airplane has a 7/8" CF wing tube that goes 8" into each panel and is closing in on 100 flights. I do a 1/8" lite ply false rib at each end that is 4" wide. This sub rib ties to the upper and lower sheeting with a unidirectional CF strip that runs half span between the sheeting and foam. The root is capped off with a balsa sheet that is 2 layers of 1/16 balsa, one layer vertical and one horizontal with a layer of 2 oz cloth between them. Seems like alot of work but it yeilds a very light bullitproof wing. The 2M wing panel weighs 19 oz with a full size servo and is 493 sq in per panel.

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Old 01-03-2012, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: TOC Laser

Quote:
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie
As a side note, I have a 3rd fuse that is being set up for a DA 85. After checking that the canopy from a Great Planes 50cc Yak 55M was available, I decided to make that one into a Stephens Acro.
Nice choice SRT!

I do like the Stephens Akro. 30 size and 50 cc in pics.

Looking forward to seeing that one come along too!

David.
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:33 PM
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Thanks David, I love the G-RIDE color scheme and will be doing that one. I tend to get stressed out when trying to come up with color schemes. What I tend to do is go way overboard and end up spending a grand on covering and paint LOL. Cutting foam off and on all day today. Got one set of wings done and now taking a break to take my foam cutting assistant to lunch for her compensation.



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