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  1. #1
    boomerik's Avatar
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    zigsaw Atlanta

    Hi all

    Might be a bit of a stupid question (what else are they questions for) but does any of you know if the zigsaw atlanta is epoxy or polyester and if not how can you tell the difference, new you can smell it but on a kit like this being allready a few years old i don`t smell anything anymore.

    And maybe gonna turn this thread into a "build" thread if there is any interest? (gonna build this kit after my curare is done)


    Thanks
    Erik
    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  2. #2
    Zero's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    I may be mistaken and someone correct me if I am, but I believe that if you take some sandpaper and lightly sand somewhere on the inside you should be able to smell fiberglass but not epoxy.
    Just my two cnets worth.
    Good Luck
    Fred

  3. #3
    doxilia's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    That's right Erik, what Fred said. However I'm 99% certain that the original Atlanta kit was polyester. Basically if it's green (like the Atlanta), blue or some other non-white or yellow pigment, there is a good chance they're polyester resin. Epoxy fuses became more common place in the later years when it was learned that it is a somewhat superior resin.

    Polyester has a slightly acrid but sweet smell. Epoxy, well, most of us know and IMO its not true that it doesn't smell if sanded - its just that much less strong. If you take a Dremel tool to Epoxy glass, you definitely can smell it. A light scuff? Not so much but the poly will outgas.

    An Atlanta thread would be very cool - we don't have one!

    David

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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Erik,

    An Atlanta thread would be great . Ibuilt mine about 25 years ago and got it airworthy last year. If Ican be of any help please let me know.

    Doug

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  5. #5
    boomerik's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    I scuffed up the the inside a little bit and it does smell like polyester and like David said it`s the original zigsaw green fuse and pan so it`s polyester then , everything i glue onto/into it has to also be polyester resin right ?

    Thought i`d add some pictures of the kit and the stuff that has to go on/in the plane, i`ll do a build tread when the time comes then (mind you should be in 1/2 weeks minimal that i begin ).

    Doug when i start building i`ll probably run into some questions
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    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  6. #6

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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Hi Erik,

    Was it you who bought the kit in Kortrijk? I heard it went to somebody in Holland ...

    Kris

  7. #7
    boomerik's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Hi Kris

    Yeah i bought it from Barry (sukhoi) was looking for one for a while really like the style of the old pattern planes and also the way they fly
    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  8. #8
    doxilia's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta


    ORIGINAL: boomerik

    I scuffed up the the inside a little bit and it does smell like polyester and like David said it`s the original zigsaw green fuse and pan so it`s polyester then , everything i glue onto/into it has to also be polyester resin right ?
    Erik, nice toys! Negative on the question though. You can use epoxy on polyester but not polyester on epoxy - for gluing.

    David

  9. #9
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Finished the rebuild on my curare 60 today and couldn`t help myself i HAD to start on the atlanta so i glued the horizontal stab together and glued the "crushed" part in the center of the wings.
    I stil have to weigh the wing panels and horizontal stab but to the feel they are pretty light.
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    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  10. #10
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Erik,

    nice. I'm glad you will be doing a build thread. It will show us some CU shots of the details on the Atlanta.

    Careful with over compressing those cores! You don't want the epoxy to cure putting a warp into your cores - even if it is at the root. Usually, that sort of thing can be sorted out by compressing the sheeted wing in the shucks. or even by keeping it weighted but without distorting.

    Those vintage blue Japanese wheels are pretty funky!

    David

  11. #11
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Yeah, that was my first plan to compress them in the chucks but it`s of not much use because the chucks are only about 3 mm thick at that spot so they give no extra support and it looks worse than it is with the clamps they are just tight enough to keep the skin against the core. And yeah those blue MK wheels look kinda funny thought it would be a nice match with the MK retracts

    Erik

    P.S. David i assume you know but the part that i glued has to be "dissorted" to make the wingpan/pipetunnel fit better
    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Erik,

    There is no need to "distort"the wing. The pipe fits fine in the belly pan.

    Doug

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  13. #13

    RE: zigsaw Atlanta


    Doug, I know it’s been a long time since you put that Atlanta together, but Erick is correct.
    You need to glue down the sheeting with the factory cores where they were relieved for pipe clearance. I would of not used the word “distort” though. Forgetting or omitting this step will cause you possible clearance issues (Pipe to belly pan) and even wing failures.
    More clearance then what was done by the factory is needed for some pipes other than Hatori’s to fit the belly pan,

    with some pipes you’ll have to clearance the center section further before glassing and installing the pipe/side plate to have the Belly Pan fit.
    Keep it coming Erik!
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    Paul Pappas, AMA 42520
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  14. #14
    doxilia's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Guys,

    From the layman's perspective, it looks like more of an issue of pan clearance than pipe clearance. From Doug's pictures, it looks like the pan base must sit flush agains't a flattened portion of the wing bottom. In the absence of the flattened sheeting, the pan would not mate fully onto the wing center. Does that make sense?

    Yea, keep it coming Erik!

    David.

  15. #15
    boomerik's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Did some more work last night , glued the tip blocks onto the stab and glued the wing together using the method with the string to get the right angle of dihedral as the say in the manual so you have to tension a string from wing tip to wing tip wich at the middle of the wing is above the trailing edge and then you have to raise the tips unitll you measure 14 mm in the middle.

    And yeah the pushing and glueing down the wing sheeting in the centre is to give the pan/pipetunnel some clearance from the wing and i tried dry fitting the pan on with the "crushed" centre and at that point when keeping the sides of the pan onto the wing the middle of the pan just lightly touches the wing skin so it is deffenately needed to "crush" the centre sheeting .
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    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  16. #16

    RE: zigsaw Atlanta


    Erik, I hate to tell you this but the manual you are working from is wrong about the dihedral, 14mm is too much.

    Golden gate updated their manual on the Atlanta on the second version to 12mm but even that was too much.

    This much dihedral will cause it to roll out in knife edge flight when you apply rudder.

    Using the method in the instructions for measuring the dihedral it should be between 8mm to 6mm, favoring the 6mm setting.

    Paul Pappas, AMA 42520
    www.NECPO.org

  17. #17
    boomerik's Avatar
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Ah ok, well i haven`t glassed or did anything else to the wing yet but glue it together with PU glue so i can still cut it apart with a new/sharp blade i think and re-glue it using the 6 mm dihedral it would be a pitty to build it in a way that makes it not fly as it should i think.
    I also have the golden gate manual but also the zigsaw manual/pamflet says 14 mm but if from experience you say somewere between 6 and 8 mm makes it fly much better then i`ll redo it i think .

    Erik
    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Erik,

    Sorry for the mis-information on my part. Paul is right, it has been about 25 years!!!

    Paul is right (of course) about the dihedral. After Ibuilt mine Ihad to cut the wing and take dihedral out. Idont recall the measurement, but Iam sure Paul is right on.

    Just wanted to support Paul's statement so you get it right the first time.

    Doug

  19. #19
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Np at all Doug i also wasn`t very clear on my explanation and i allready cut the center line of the wing with a sharp blade and reglued it with 6 mm dihedral it`s drying up now

    I appreciate all your help and advise btw.

    P.S. Doug you have one nice looking atlanta it looks tight and sleek from every angle VERY nicely build


    Erik
    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  20. #20
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Did some more work on the atlanta , put some hardwood ends on the stab tips and sanded the tips to shape . Also had a look at the wing and i was wondering if it is supposed to be as in the pictures so the ailerons are smaller than the leading edge/flaps?
    Also i`m still thinking about either one servo and torque rods or 2 servo`s in the wing for the ailerons?


    Erik
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    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  21. #21

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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta


    ORIGINAL: boomerik

    Also i`m still thinking about either one servo and torque rods or 2 servo`s in the wing for the ailerons?


    Erik
    Not even a conversation. Two servos in Flaperon mode. Gives you independent control for differential and redundancy in case of a failure.

    Doug

  22. #22
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Was kinda thinking the 2 servo would be best just liked the clean look of torque rods . The ailerons being not as wide is as it is supposed to be i guess ?

    Erik
    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down

  23. #23

    RE: zigsaw Atlanta


    Erik, your ailerons look correct, Will you be using Flaps?
    Have you decided on the aileron servo locations, in the wing next to the retract mounts or in the center section?

    I would have mounted a servo in each wing. With wing joined already it makes it tough. Have you worked the retract rod location in the foam wing before joining?

    Here is a pic of the Atlanta wing, should answer some questions for you about what you’re seeing between the ailerons and flap.

    As you can see you end up tapering them, but can also be left squared off if using flaps.
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  24. #24
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta


    ORIGINAL: boomerik

    Ah ok, well i haven`t glassed or did anything else to the wing yet but glue it together with PU glue so i can still cut it apart with a new/sharp blade i think and re-glue it using the 6 mm dihedral it would be a pitty to build it in a way that makes it not fly as it should i think.
    I also have the golden gate manual but also the zigsaw manual/pamflet says 14 mm but if from experience you say somewere between 6 and 8 mm makes it fly much better then i`ll redo it i think .

    Erik
    Place the assembled wing halves upside down on your flat bench. Raise the center at it's highest point, 1/4"(6mm). Make certain your TE and LE are equidistant from your bench top; block as required. That will get you what you want. Atlanta's flew well, with minimal couple, setup that way
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  25. #25
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    RE: zigsaw Atlanta

    Hi Paul,

    Yeah i did make location for the retract rods before joining and i kinda joined the wing coz i thought of going with one servo at first but 2 might seem better i was thinking of placing the servo in the middle of the aileron might be a bit of a tricky thing to do now but not impossible
    and i think i`ll taper the flaps into the ailerons (looks nicer i think ) and i`m not gonna use the flaps i got plenty of space and all my planes are without flaps and it`s fine i think.

    Erik
    Don`t worry planes ALWAYS come down


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