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Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

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Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Old 02-16-2012, 10:22 AM
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doxilia
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

While it is possible to pump a non pumped engine, there are no substitutes for the integrated concept of the pumped ''super charged'' YS engine.
The two strokes were not supercharged. While the YS engines were good, I think the OS and SuperTigers [sic: Super Tigre's] were more powerful.
Are you saying that the four strokes are?

In any case, I was using the term "super charged" loosely (hence, the quotes). What I meant is that they are engines designed to run in any attitude with the tank in any location in the aircraft. The internal pump design (or rather, fuel pressure regulator) of the YS is unequaled - at least in 2 stroke 45-61 size engines. As far as OS and ST being more powerful, you'll find that most in this forum will disagree with possible exception of some pumped OS engines (e.g., the OS Hanno Special which is comparable to the YS LS). The OS short strokes like the 46 and 61 FSR and VF were not comparable to the YS 45 and 60 FS/FR. Just from paper, there is also little question that Rossi and OPS made a more powerful non pumped engine than ST and in practice, many are quite familiar with this.

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
While the Fox engines of the day were not popular for pattern because of the carb, those today are better than many of the earlier pattern engines. Actually you saw a few Fox's mostly in the lower class's. You never saw EVO, ASP, Magnum, TT, and never saw four strokes either...
Of course we didn't see those brands. There's little point in comparing YS or Fox's to engines that either didn't or barely existed at the time.

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
So to say that you didn't use Fox engines in the day is a very poor reason not to use one.
I agree with that but there is still a very slim probability that folks in this forum (and particularly this thread) will use one. It's just how it is.

In short, I understand that you are either connected with Fox or feel there is nothing else worth running (as a general rule) but your earlier first post contributes little to the topic at hand. Telling us we "don't need them" and that instead we should be using Fox's (or Jett's [&:]) leads no where and is a sign that you are not familiar with the virtues of YS engines or the desirability of a pumped engine in some classics. With that said, I am glad that you are an avid user of Fox engines and wish you good times with them. Perhaps the issue is that you don't condone the use or discussion of any engines that are not US made.

David
Old 02-16-2012, 11:22 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

I never saw a stock O.S. or Supertigre keep up with a Y.S. Especially the Supertigre. ST never made a good rear exhaust engine. And believe me, when they came out I tried everything to get a Tigre RE engine to make good power. I had a few O.S. engines that I modified that made the power of a YS. But they wouldn't last like a YS or have the consistent fuel delivery of a YS.

As to a Fox, I would be very doubtful. I gave several Fox engine a real try in R/C, but I never had a Fox carb that would work. Maybe they're better now, but I still sort of doubt it.
Old 02-16-2012, 11:25 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Just one correction. The YS engines we are discussing are not pumped engines. They have a pressure fuel system and a regulator. Gets you the same result but it is different technology.
Old 02-16-2012, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Tony,

thanks for posting your experiences and confirming fairly wide shared opinions. Thanks for also clarifying the nature of the YS fuel system and the proper terminology.

David
Old 02-16-2012, 12:57 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Telling us we "don't need them" and that instead we should be using Fox's (or Jett's ) leads no where and is a sign that you are not familiar with the virtues of YS engines or the desirability of a pumped engine in some classics.
I wasn't trying to say you don't need them, nor that you shouldn't. I was just expressing that for myself I would not buy an engine with such a small run with little possibility that they would produce more. If I thought they would and my financial situation changes (it will after I get 3 kids through college) I would like to buy one myself.

As far as nobody here would use a modern Fox, that may be true andthat is a shame. They are actually better than many (not all)of the engines they are using. There were plenty of Fox's back in the day. But Fox intentially did not make a good pattern engine when they banned his .78 engine. They took a very long break in and the carbs a bit different and hard to tune, but worked well once tuned. Fox had a habit of building them too tight and they were not pretty. However I believe the Foxengines made today are a completely different ball game.
Old 02-16-2012, 01:06 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Sorry, just when I thought the site was working well I have another misshap.
Old 02-16-2012, 01:10 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...


ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

but I never had a Fox carb that would work.
The old Fox's were very hard to tune, you had to adjust the low speed mixture first as it would change the high speed, then adjust the high speed mixture, but that would change the low speed mixture, then back and forth, back and forth. Worked well once dialed in. Too complicated for competition I suppose. The newer two needle carbs worked very well if you did not have a sloppy fit on the needle, even then they leaked fuel out (not air in). The later ones had better fits but still leaked fuel. A couple years ago they came out with new carbs patterned after OS and ST carbs, but have teflon seals instead of O rings. Don't need a clicker as the seal puts enough tension to prevent the needle from shifting. I haven't tried one the Fox's I have work well enough for sport but I probably wouldn't use them for pattern. When I get back in I plan on using an HP Gold Head .61.


Are you saying that the four strokes are?
Yes they are, but without the supercharger. One deifinition is to charge heavily or excessively. Also it fits the thermodynamic cycle of a supercharged engine.

Old 02-16-2012, 02:05 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Why bother with an engine with such a short production run? You don't need them anyway. You can buy all you need from Jett if well healed, and Fox if not.
ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Telling us we ''don't need them'' and that instead we should be using Fox's (or Jett's ) leads no where and is a sign that you are not familiar with the virtues of YS engines or the desirability of a pumped engine in some classics.
I wasn't trying to say you don't need them, nor that you shouldn't. I was just expressing that for myself I would not buy an engine with such a small run with little possibility that they would produce more.
Sport_Pilot,

Well that sounds better. It is hard to understand differently when that's exactly what you said in your first post. If all we need are Fox's or Jett's, then there is no reason one could possibly want to use a YS. That's how it read.

Regarding the "short production run", that's not a given. It's perhaps just a starting point. As business goes, if they sell well, I see not reason why YS wouldn't run another 100 and so it goes. In the event that only 100 are produced, well, that doesn't mean there won't be parts for them and in some respects, the low production count is not that different from Jett's approach - heck, they custom make engines on order in some cases, one at a time. Regardless of all that, the idea is still worth pursuing to some even if it means having one or two engines that will be used until they die (should parts not be available).

Some members here have gone to much trouble to look into the possibility of having YS 2 strokes (short strokes in particular) being produced again. Why? Well, because they are unique and because some of us would prefer to run YS's on inverted installation classics.

I have no objection to your offering your opinions (and so I shouldn't) but there are other engines worth using and purchasing besides Fox and it will remain so, regardless of whether Fox's are wonderful engines. I'm sure they have their market and I am glad they are still in business.

David
Old 02-16-2012, 02:21 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Well that sounds better. It is hard to understand differently when that's exactly what you said in your first post.

I should have said I don't need them.  Someone who needs to regulate the fuel could need one.  If it is the same price as the Jett or about $300 and has a regulator it may be the better buy, especially if they make more than just 100.  IMO you don't actually need the regulator unless you plan on mounting the tank at or near CG. 
Old 02-16-2012, 03:15 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Sport,
I concur that Foxes are not pretty and that, IMO, has kept the engine from being sold in large numbers. I used Fox .35's in Stunt when I was just starting and even have one now in a Classic Stunter, but it wasn't close to the sexy Super Tigre G21 .35/40/46 in looks. The Fox 35 is lighter, smaller, and as powerful as a Tigre 40; but it wasn't as pretty, didn't run consistently because of it's needle valve assy (we actually used ST NVA's in them), and needed a good fuel with 15% nitro and 25% minimum oil to maintain some reliability.
From what you've described about the R/C engines, they suffer from the same problems. As much as I tend to like Foxes and promote USA products, I'd rather buy a Rossi or short run YS because they are well sorted, known and, like flying electric in AMA, everyone knows how to help you with one at the meets.
Spares I think are a non-problem. Maybe when guys are building multiple ships and flying a seasons worth of events and practicing thousands of flights per season, but at the level of frequency of operation now, not a problem. I'm running three old OS engines and they've done well, three old Rossi's are next.
I'll try a new Rossi RE and a short run YS60 RE, one each, and have fun flying two piped, rear exhaust Classics every once in a while.
Chris...  

Old 02-16-2012, 03:34 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

You had to have thick skin to fly a Fox in competition back then. You could always use a "D" flange adaptor allowing you to use a normal round base carb. I found that they worked well with a different carb and low nitro 20% castor oil.

I actually got about 300 more rpm's on my Eagle III with the original carb, but it had to be cleaned constantly- as it would allow fuel to gum up in some manufacturing flaws( they would break loose and play ole' billy with you). The Eagle III was very powerful.

I much preferred my more expensive engine, but I love to tinker with that old Fox( still do). The Jetts and YS options sound great!

turbo
Old 02-16-2012, 05:43 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

We have a running joke in our club that first prize is a Fox eagle 60 , and second prize is a pair of them. I heard that they were the manufacture of the Kraft 61's behind the scenes back then. I had one Fox 40 that was a POS from the day I got. YS is king in my eyes for reliable power and OS's for all-out reliability. These will sell like hotcakes, sorry about the Fox stories but had to tell them.
Old 02-16-2012, 06:47 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

ORIGINAL: TonyF

ST never made a good rear exhaust engine.
This is the 1st I have ever heard of this... That stinks if true.

I'll be testing this theory.

Brian


Old 02-16-2012, 08:12 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Tony's a multi time Nats Champ, Brian. Guys like us won't know the difference for a while! Eric has one in his Tipo, it runs great and the the model does well enough.
Chris...

P.S. I think Eric's components have changed since this photo. I seem to recall the prop and pipe have changed to APC and Macs pipe.

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Old 02-16-2012, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Actually, the side exhaust ST X.61 made decent power. I ran them for several years. Not the best power out at the time but very reliable and consistent. I had them in several Tipo's. The rear on the other hand, pretty gutless.

My old friend Harry Roe and I worked on a lot of mods to try to get the power up on the rear. Nothing really worked. And the cast-in round exhaust made getting a header on it very problematic. There were definitely better choices at the time.
Old 02-16-2012, 10:56 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

From what you've described about the R/C engines, they suffer from the same problems.
No, never. The old ones were hard to tune, the modern ones probably have the best carb presently made.

didn't run consistently because of it's needle valve assy (we actually used ST NVA's in them), and needed a good fuel with 15% nitro and 25% minimum oil to maintain some reliability.
Despite Fox's recommendation you don't have to run 25% all castor in their ringed and ABC engines. They run as fine as other engines with a castor synthetic mix. But you do need that castor with their lapped engines. Running all castor 25% oil will cause the same problem in many engines. I run plane old Omega in my Fox .50 andexcept forthe crude needles leaking a bit of fuel the carb works as well as an OS. The last time I had trouble I found I was running the wrong fuel, it likes no more then 5% nitro.

flying electric in AMA, everyone knows how to help you with one at the meets.
Not me, I'll fry a battery before leaving the shop!
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:01 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...


ORIGINAL: Ilikebipes

ORIGINAL: TonyF

ST never made a good rear exhaust engine.
This is the 1st I have ever heard of this... That stinks if true.

I'll be testing this theory.

Brian


..


Hanno Pretner was winning with them before switching to OS for $$$.
Old 02-16-2012, 11:07 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

The rear on the other hand, pretty gutless.
I believe the rear exhaust ST was set up for bigger props, probably not as large as the OS Hanno engine though.
Old 02-16-2012, 11:08 PM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

I apologize for the rabbit trail.... I will stop with this post.

I hope no offense was taken.... I am simply investing some money in my ST RE.... hoping it will perform.

Knowing who Tony is, it wasn't good news for me...

Brian

Old 02-17-2012, 06:03 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

I would definitely love 1 of the YS's +1
Old 02-17-2012, 06:03 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

GUYS! The NEW YS 61 short stroke should be ready sometime this summer. IF you want one I would suggest getting on the YS list. You can email [email protected] and put your name on the list. It will be a limited production run.
Old 02-17-2012, 06:04 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

The list has been started.....email [email protected] to have your name added.
Old 02-17-2012, 06:10 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

THIS WOULD BE ONE OF THOSE RARE OPPORTUNITIES. I'm still looking for Hanno liners from Nelson....anybody? Didn't think so.
Old 02-17-2012, 07:05 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

I'm in for 3..................
Old 02-17-2012, 07:18 AM
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Default RE: Anybody interested in a NEW YS shortstroke? New, as in produced this year...

Many thanks to Flywilly for bringing this to everyone's attention. I did exchange a few emails with Richard, who confirmed the before mentioned summer delivery date and a price of around $320...possibly closer to $300. I'm in.

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