tgwhitley

Is there some general differences related to these 2 aircraft one rolls is more axial or the outside loop is truer of one design compared to each other? The fuel tank issue of P7 and the sometimes nose heavy DB are some of the things I have read about on the various forums, any comments welcomed about comparsions of the 2 designs.

Tim

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Are you talking about the ARF or the real kits/scratch built versions ?

tgwhitley

Well both, a true build of each but in particular the ARF models of these designs. I really would like to discuss flight differences between them on reasonable well built models.

Thanks,

Tim

countilaw

Tim,
It's not really that either one flies better than the other one. Lets go back to the 70's when these planes were being designed and who flew them.

There were good pilots and then there were great pilots. There were pilots that had deep pockets or sponsors that provided them with deep pockets. These guys had the time to fly numerous hours in practise and had planes that were designed to do particular maneuvers better. And example would be the anhedral in the rear stabilizer. This was supposed to give the plane better knife edge capabilities, plus it looked good.

When these pilots won or placed in the Nats, it made their plane more desireable. It may not have been because the plane was a super plane, but that the pilot was a great pilot, mostly from the hours spent practising the pattern.

All the planes, whether it was the P.6, Arrow, Magic, or whatever, flew well. Other pilots liked the way a plane looked. The lines, shape, curves, and etc fit their idea of what a plane should look like, and they chose it and learned to fly it.

So, it's not that any one design flew better than the other, it's what plane fits your idea of what a plane should look like or what turns you on and how much you practise to makes that plane do what you want it to do.

Frank
AMA 8510

vasek

My Feedback: (4)

I do agree with Frank, however to me a better plane is the one that flies the figures better for a lesser capable pilot (overall easier to fly with the same results).

Taurus Flyer

Frank, not so romantic, It wasn't much different compared with the "real world"!

Two examplese but I can show much more!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8231164

Thanks Ray! Interesting model, to me it has some Orion influence.

FB

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8234023

Most of them did, even Perigee. The Perigee/Apogee pair were developed from the Nimbus, which was modded by Tom from the Orion, but styled so as 'not to look like an Orion'. Both models make very fair aerobatic machines even now. Reb,of course, is even more Orion influenced. Nice airplanes.
Evan, WB #12.


Second example, see the attachment about the Tiporare and the Curare

we still can find these magazines showing us that part of modeling, also about the radios.

Cees

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

I've owned and flown both, though it's been a few decades. Both flew very well. I'd give the edge in rolling maneuvers to the P-7 due to the swept wing and the edge in looping maneuvers to the DB due to the straight trailing edge. I built a DB from scratch with about 1/2 the wing sweep of the P7 and was very happy with the results.
I miss the 'good old days' lots of designs, a lot more pattern fliers who would let you try their airplane (at least in my club - and we had 10-12 pattern fliers) to help decide what to build next or modify...

tgwhitley

flywilly

Thanks that is the kind of information I was hoping to have posted for subject. I would like opinions on vertical lines which plane in general was easier to keep vertical. Really any useful tidbits that could be used in setup for each plane etc.

Tim

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hi Tim,
Geez, you're really gonna tax my memory... better you than Uncle Sam .
Trimmed properly (thrust, incidence and CG), they were excellent in vertical lines. Of course, that was back in the ballistic days; so, as long as your pull-up was straight you would draw a nice line pretty quickly - if held too long, though (airspeed drops) then you had to work to hold it. I always found it a bit easier to get good verticals with the Dirty Birdy with the stock (straight TE wing) as it was easier to see when you weren't perfectly vertical (the wing TE being perpendicular to the fuselage). Current pattern designs fly so much slower (relatively speaking) that you can make corrections during the 1/4 loop to vertical. I learned, from watching Ivan Kristensen, that a little more radius (softer entry - no 'hard' or square corners) made it much easier to make corrections without penalty (losing points [:@]).
Color schemes can help a lot, too.
Hope this helps,
Will

bob mann

I started flying pattern in the 70"s I think i flew just about all of them, P-6 P-7 Nutcracker, Saturn,Banshee,Dirty Birdy, A-6 Intruder,Curare, I could go on and on but the double tapered wing and the tapered front straight back just seemed to fly better, better rools, stalls, etc. I ended up flying Expert/Masters ( Mode 1 flyer) .

Roary m

My Feedback: (67)

Here they want to tax our memories; This is California.

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I'm with you on the general handling differences between the two models. With that said, I believe that Don Lowe (designer of the Phoenix series of models) could have flown an RCM Trainer 40 to first place at the nats for a while there. He was hot.

For we of less talent at piloting, the Dirty Birdy is difficult to match or equal.


Ed Cregger

Trisquire

I once read an informative post in the Golden Age, Vintage & Antique RC forum, but I can't find it now. The theory was as follows. 70s pattern ships were so varied because of the individual strengths and weaknesses of their pilots. If you were a good 'looper' but tended to neglect your rolls, you might have chosen a design that rolled nicely on its own. On the other hand, if loops were a bigger problem, another type of plane might have suited your needs better. Modern designs have become more standardized because pilots have become equally skilled in all maneuvers.

MTK

Late 70's early 80's is when I flew the DB 60 and P8. Compared to each other, I'd give the overall flying quality edge to the Phoenix. It was a good all around flier (although it wasn't a spectacular flier in any one type of maneuver in my opinion). I found the DB a little weak in rolls but spectacular in loops.

To me, the best plane of the era was the Arrow; one of the best rolling planes ever, including some from today's offerings....