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What name has this plane?

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Old 07-03-2012, 06:24 AM
  #1  
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Default What name has this plane?

Hi,

I'm sure this one is easy for some of You - what name has the plane in the pictures below?
It was on front cover of American Aircraft Modeler October 1971 and American Aircraft Modeler February 1973.

I know I have seen some sort of construction article of this plane back in 1970th but I can not remember where - do You know?

Anyone built this plane and flew it, and did it fly good?

regards,
Bo
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:45 AM
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J Strong
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Don't know, but hope someone does, it would be a SPA candidate, and what nice lines .
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

I think it was a "fantasy" model for the upcoming world championships.

FB
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:14 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

The model is called "Fakir" The plans for two versions, one by Howard Mottin (I) and the other by Bruce Lund (II), were published in the May 1974 issue of American Aircraft Modeler.

They were the winners of a design contest run by AAM, the object being to design and build a model based on an outline drawing by Bob Lopshire in the February 1973 issue.

Ray
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:16 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

I didn't know that, very cool Ray!

FB
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:38 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Hi,

Thanks Ray, I'm not surprised You where the first to have info about the plane.

Now when I look more close on the American Aircraft Modeler Feb 1973 front cover picture above it is writtenbelow canopy "Fakir II".

I will try to get the issues of American Aircraft Modeler that You mentioned.

What I do not reallyunderstand how come the model was on front cover already of the official program (brochure)for the F3A World Championship 1971 in USA, Doylestown Pennsylvania September 15-19?
I have that brochure (scan of front cover below).
Video of this Seventh World Aerobatic Championship: http://www.seniorpattern.com/video/ (enlarge window with the button in lower right corner).
1:10 min into the video they are unpacking boxes with this brochure... I love that video, to bad such videos are so rare.


/Bo

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Old 07-03-2012, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

I knew who had the answer as soon as I looked at the original post. The biggest guess is as to how quickly Ray can respond.
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?



And how quick Ray can scan
Thanks for the scan Ray - I recievedthe construction article from AAMMay 1974 fine and have read it now. Man, I cannot imagine a design contests like that would be possible today for (modern) pattern but we are at the hay days of old classic pattern when the pattern plane design contest in AAM was held.

When I read the article about the Fakir-I (there was also "second place"Fakir-II, see below for info) my memory wake up when I saw the nose gear doors. I had the exact same nose gear door arrangement on my Mach 1 back in the 1970th and I remember now I got the idea from this article about Fakir-I in AAM. Two door halves and a spring in the middle keeping the doors open when retracts down and noseleg pressing on the spring, and closing the doors when retracted. Simple and bulletproof. Although it was metal to metal (spring-noseleg) it never caused any radio "noice" (I had an EK Logictrol super pro 7 ch radio back then, nice quality US radio but not super expensive). See images below of the nose door arrangement on the Fakir-I.

Some summary from the article in AAM below where Fakir-I (and Fakir-II) was presented.
It is drawings in the magazine also on both planes but I post not any of them here because of copyrights.

Fakir I
By Howard C. Mottin
The February ('73) issue of AAM contained the announcement of a Super Design Contest, based on the drawings of Bob Lopshire.
The botton view of the Fakir was on cover of the Doylstown World Championship program (also on October '71 AAM) and the top view appeared on the cover of February '73 AAM. Using the rules for the contest as a guide, I created the idea of the Fakir-I. The contest called for the plane to be designed on paper first and then constructed according to those drawings. Finally, the rules reguired that the flight characteristics be demonstrated at the '73 NATS in Oshkosh.
Wingspan 61 inch, Wing area 650 sq in, Ovl length 52 in, Weight 7 lb, engine 60.



On the drawing in the AAM May 1974 it say:
Full-size plans available - see page 84.
I do not know what it say on page 84 but I checked AMA Plans Service and this Fakir (I) was not listed so I suppose a high resulution scan and resize to scale 1:1 of plan the AAM will be one way of getting a plan to build from.



Fakir II
Mottin and Lund where neck and neck down the straightaway (they both captured the essence of the Super design Contest), but Fakir II was edged out by a nose (spinner?). Here is a look at the "other" winner.
By Bruce Lund
I gathered data from the most popular designs in use today. Averaging their areas and moments, I put all the data into a bag, shook it up and came out with:
Wingspan 62 in, Wing area 679 sg in, Length 51,5 in, Nose moment 14,5 in, Tail moment 31,25 in, stab area 177 sq in, Rudder height 9.375 in.
The wing layout and the airfoil is the same as Don Colemans Cutlass Supreme, but with barn door ailerons a la Banshee. The stab is Tiger Tail, The nose moment is the same as the Super Kaos, Banshee and Tiger Tail. The tail moment is close to Mach 1



Plans service is not avaliable for the plan reproduced here.
[My comment: Plan is in the AAM and could probably be scanned in high resolituion and rezised to scale 1:1 to produce a printable PDF or similar.]




It is kind of strange Fakir-I has not been up for discussion before here in this forum?
It is a nice plane in my opinion - look at the two colorpictures below. I could not find infoin AAM how it fly (page 93 was missing in the scan from Ray, maybe it iswritten something there).
And it would also probably be a good candidate for electric motor today for those that would try that since there should be rather easy to make a hatch from canopy to motor and place battery, ESC etc in that compartment.

In the design contest rules it was said flight characteristics be demonstrated at the '73 NATS in Oshkosh. Now, was it flown at the 1973 NATS? And if it was competing in the NATS that year what place did it reach?

/Bo

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Old 07-04-2012, 02:39 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Hi,

I got the missing pages from Ray - thanks!
And there flight characteristics was described, see image below. It was mentioned it wasat the NATS (did not mentioned if it competed or even flying there).
But it is mentioned it had success in a contest in Pontiac Michigan where it took first in class C Expert. So it seems it had some success in competition.

In 1973 according to AMA Official Model Aircraft Regulations it was these classes at that time:

AMA Pattern classes:
Class A
Class B
Class C, Novice and Expert

FAI Pattern class:
Class D, Novice and Expert

/Bo
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

It was illustrated artwork for the 71 Nats broachure. The AMA didn't want to endorse any ONE model builder or kit manufacturer, so they had a picture done illustrating a pattern plane just for the broachure and then used on the covers. A contest developed to design and build the plane as an actual model.

Frank
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:37 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Hi,
Nice to know the history behind the Fakir design and that explain how the plane was already on the cover of 1971 WC brochure.
I have now ordered AAM Feb 1973 and May 1974 issues from US (and also Nov 1973 issue that cover the NATS that year to see if it is mentioned anything about the plane there). When I get the magazines I will try to do high resolution scans of Fakir-I and -II plans and scale them up to scale 1/1 to make PDF and that way be able to get usable drawings. I will come back here with result of that.

/Bo
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:33 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Bo - where do you "order" old back issues of AAM.

Ray
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Probably Ebay. I've picked up some old issues of MAN and RCM on the site. I've seen some AAM. Funny, 40+ years later, I see a cover and i remember the issue. But can't remember what my wife told me yesterday.

Jim
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Bo - where do you "order" old back issues of AAM.

Ray
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:46 PM
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ORIGINAL: Jim_Purcha

Probably Ebay. I've picked up some old issues of MAN and RCM on the site. I've seen some AAM. Funny, 40+ years later, I see a cover and i remember the issue. But can't remember what my wife told me yesterday.

Jim
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Bo - where do you "order" old back issues of AAM.

Ray
that is so true. I see a cover even back in the 60's and remember the issue. I guess that comes from reading them from cover to cover over and over again waiting for the next issue to come in the mail. I think everyone that was in the hobby back then can say the same thing.

Frank


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Old 07-05-2012, 11:09 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Ray,

I got them from "Buy It Now" on ebay US. Expensive as he... and shipping cost is even more. Amazon has old issues also.
Someyears ago I managaed to gather all issues of Model Airplane News 1970-1980 andoboy that was expensive- paper is heavy and shipping was was not cheap. (I had all of these MAN issues before but throw them away inmiddle of1980th.)
If it was not so damn expensive to get old issues of AAM and RCM I would try to get more of them, it is so fun reading these old magazines.

/Bo
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

I remember going to the Doylestown event. I was in College in Lehigh PA at the time.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:26 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?



WEDJ,

Could You tell us a little what You remember from the WC 1971 in Doylestown?

You can perhaps refresh memory a littleby looking at the video above in post #6.

/Bo

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Old 07-20-2012, 12:59 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

Hi,

I got American Aircraft Modeler May 1974 issue now and I have scanned the Fakir I (the winning plane) and Fakir II (second place plane) drawing from construction article based onthe AAM Super Design Contest in Feb 1973 issue (see images below). I also found out that Fakir I did fly at the 1973 NATS since it was a photo (see below) in AAM Nov 1973 that covered the NATS 1973 (it say in picture it was Fakir II but that can not be the case, it is Fakir I in the picture).

If anyone want Fakir I or Fakir II drawing in PDF, scale 1/1, that can be sent to print/plot bureau or similar to get a paper plan in scale 1/1 just PM me and You will get a download link.
Remember when printing PDF that scale must be none (no scaling) otherwise the print out will not be in exact scale 1/1.

Fakir I has wingspan 61 inch, Fakir II has wingspan 62 inch. I have checked carfefully that the wing half that is scaledon the two plans are exactly 61 / 2 = 30,5 inch (Fakir I) and 62 / 2 = 31 inch (Fakir II).
Assuming all other parts are in correct scale that will make fuselage and other parts in exact scale also.

/Bo
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?


ORIGINAL: bem



WEDJ,

Could You tell us a little what You remember from the WC 1971 in Doylestown?

You can perhaps refresh memory a little by looking at the video above in post #6.

/Bo

I remember a few things from 41 years ago. It was a Friday, I think. It was what I thought was windy, but I was a novice pilot with an H-ray back then. I wanted to see Bruno Giezendanner, and was startled to realize that these top fliers had planes that sounded just like mine. I don't know what I was expecting, but it took some of the awe out of my impressions. Their maneuvers were BIG and SMOOTH. I remember wanting very much to improve my flying.Around the same time, maybe a year later, I was very impressed by Jim Martin flying his Banshee. It was the fastest pattern plane I had ever seen. When the J&J kit came out, I bought one.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:42 AM
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Default RE: What name has this plane?

WEDJ,

Thanks for posting some of Your memories from WC 1971. So did You remember any of the winner Bruno Giezendanners flights?
I happen to have a Marabu kit made by Mr Giezendanner himself that I'm trying to get in flying condition. I have some pictures of the kit (actually it was almost like an ARF so the whole plane was built already by Giezendanner) on the other forum here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1695457

Banshee - that is a nice plane. I still remember when I saw one for the first time in 1974 at our nationals. Strange, I still remember that plane was all white and on one landing the nose gear folded back (it had retracts) and the pilot said some swear word loadly like "hell" when that happened (the landing strip was asphalt so the nose probably got some scratches underside). I was 12 years old back then and had just discovered thewonderful world of pattern.I also remember the winning plane at that contest,that was an orange-white painted Midwest Mach 1 (built from the plans, not the kit) flown by Benny Kjellgren - he came from nowhere and at the age of 20 won the Swedish F3A nationals (he was also invited to TOC in US that year and some more years later). He flew big precisemanouvers and fast (he use Webra Speed) and had a brown/yellow radio that must have been a Kraft. As far as I remember none had pipes yet (I think 1975 or 1976 was the year it started to be more common here, like Minivox pipes for Webra Speed engines).

/Bo
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