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Mach1 question before upcoming build

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:03 PM
  #1
pilotx
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Default Mach1 question before upcoming build

hello to all I am about to start building the Mach 1. I have purchased a short kit and foam cores from Eureka Aircraft and the plans from MAN(I think) anyways i also have a Midwest products plan for the same Mach1, after recieving my order from National balsa all the wood is here to begin. I have been looking over both plans and i find the the Eurekc plan(MAN) is Longer in length when macthing up the fuse sides from the wing to tail in about 1" longer than shown on the Midwest plan. is it better to be longer here or shorter? i can change it to match the Midwest plan or proceed with the Eureka/MAN plan.

this is my first Pattern plane and I love the look of most of the pattern planes..

any help would be great
thanks in advance..
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

pilotx,

I would say longer woud be better.


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Old 10-22-2012, 10:29 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Longer is better.
Chris...
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:49 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Remember moving every thing 1" back will move the CG a lot. consider the weight of your engine and pipe or not. Not very much room for moving stuff around on the M1. The plane flew great the way Norm designed it. Talk to people who made it 1" longer see what problems they had with CG if any. You don't want to add dead weight to get the balance. M1 flies great when weight is controlled. Just my opinion, you will have fun building and flying this Classic.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:20 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

The original RCM plan is longer. Midwest shortened it. They also changed the construction technique from a basic box fuse, to a laminated lumber yard.
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:03 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

So if I get this right, the MAN original plan is the desired and correct way to build this plane, and the Midwest shorter version was done to kit the plane.

So I will build as per original plan? I did notice the block by block laminating process that is the Midwest Products plan, to me seems the sure way to build HEAVY and I dont want that...
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Quote:
the RCM original plan
That would be MAN. Published in the June 1973 issue.

Ray
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:33 AM
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pilotx
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

RFJ: yes this plan and the original build article from Model Aviation News. and I am comparing to Midwest Products plan.. the MAN plan is correct to the part's from Eureka Short Kit
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:58 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Kit manufacturers often make changes to accomodate the box sizes they can get or have on hand. J & J pattern plane kits being a notable example.
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Old 10-23-2012, 01:28 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

OK guys, after looking at these plans closer I have found that the(Midwest Products Co.) plans are 3/8inches shorter over all and looking at the wing, it is moved 3/8inches Aft, the C.G. is also moved although it is moved forward 3/8inches.


Question is how does this change the plane, did Midwest improve it or do the MAN plans offer a better plane, or no difference at all?

Sorry for asking all the questions. I just don't want to start off one way then find out that I had a chance to correct it.

Oh one more thing what glue to use to skin the wings and stab? A fellow builder friend suggested 3M Super77?



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Old 10-23-2012, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Hey Pilotx,

Will you be doing a build thread on your Mach 1? I don't remember seeing one here on RCUniverse since I've been a subscriber.

David
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Old 10-23-2012, 02:45 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Not sure yet but will definitely think it over I'm not sure how committed I will be to keeping it up to date. I hope to have this close to glassing before Christmas. we'll see
I also have a Mustang to put the finish on. both of which I want to have complete by spring flying season 2013.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:13 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Needs to be the old formula of 3M Super 77 or it will eat the foam.. I usually get a case from Canada and split it with a few other builders.

cpa#2
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:39 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Brings back a lot of memories.  Built the Midwest kit back in '75.  Super Tiger blue head 60.  Pro Line radio . Goldburg retracts.  Also built a Mach 8 40 size version.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Hi, The midwest kit/plan is a very different than the plane Norm Page designed. The plans from MAN are much closer to the model Norn Page won the Masters with than the kit even though the completed model looks the same. I have a set of plans directly from Norm. One of the differences that you have not seen is the real Mach 1 has a foam core Fin that the airfoil is thicker on the right side than the left to counter act the torq so the plane tracks stright. The other differences you have noted. The wing is also very different on the plans built model than the kit.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:53 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Quote:
ORIGINAL: hrrcflyer

Hey Pilotx,

Will you be doing a build thread on your Mach 1? I don't remember seeing one here on RCUniverse since I've been a subscriber.

David
David,

Leo has an M1 build thread along with his Sequel thread. Both models remain to be finished according to the latest news (I was in touch with Leo recently). Here's his M1 thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8532968/tm.htm

David
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:36 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Definitely MAN plans. Longer is better for a pattern ship. It wouldn't hurt to move the wing back slightly if it looks like it will be a bit tail heavy.
I used Bolly laminating resin for years, but I think it is no longer available. I now use Z Poxy finishing resin, which works well.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

I have a Midwest Mach 1 kit with a partially built fuselage. I got a chuckle out of it being a flying lumber yard. It is a complex looking fuselage build but hopefully it won't be too heavy when all said and done. I think a lot of it gets sanded away to achieve the rounded contours. I don't think they were very concerned with weight back then. Classic pattern ships fly fast.

Good luck on your build. Pictures would be appreciated.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:20 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build


Quote:
ORIGINAL: pilotx
Sorry for asking all the questions. I just don't want to start off one way then find out that I had a chance to correct it.

Oh one more thing what glue to use to skin the wings and stab? A fellow builder friend suggested 3M Super77?
The few of us left who still build our stuff prefer either epoxy or Pro-Bond/Gorilla PU glue. Bonding is permanent with either one of these. For the small wing of vintage models, it won't take more than 1/2 oz each panel. The epoxy or polyurethane glue is applied sparringly to the sheeting. I prefer epoxy since it gives much greater working time before kicking off. But I never use the stuff you get at the LHS.

Go to US Composite site and buy their laminating epoxy. It's inexpensive and works well with about a 50 min pot life. Pro Bond or Gorilla begins to kick off in about 25 mins so you'd have to work faster

I used the 3M product only once and wasn't pleased when too much of the skin lifted after a few dozen flights. Probably didn't use enough spray. Spray makes it an easy application but you'd have to spray enough of it to work right.

Before applying any adhesive to either sheeting of foam, use a tack rag to remove dust residue.....Good luck
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:10 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Epoxy is better than contact cement because you can move the sheeting around to get it placed right. With contact cement, you get one chance to lay it down and get it right. However, if you like Contact Cement, Home Depot has a water based contact cement in quart cans. It works extremely well. It is white,so if you use it, put some food coloring in it so you can see how much you are applying to the white foam core.

There used to be a product out called, "Southern Sorgham" it was great stuff.

Frank
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

A well-built, ready-to-fly Mach I will weigh just about 8 pounds. That includes a .61-size engine, muffler, and retracts. They fly very well at that weight. Of course, a bit lighter might be better, but heavier is not.

Get yourself the very small Stanley block plane. It's about 1" wide and 3" long. This will be used to contour the fuselage to the point it's looking nice and round. Smooth it with sandpaper. Start with 120-grit and continue to 220, 320, and maybe to 400 before you paint or cover. The smoother the balsa, the better the final finish. You won't need to go much finer than 320 or 400 for the sandpaper.


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Old 10-24-2012, 09:47 AM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Good to know Bax. Thanks!
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Old 10-24-2012, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

Bax,

The OS33GT you fixed for me early this year has worked incredibly well. I have about 11 gallons of avgas through it now, some 60 hours of operation.

Some kind of engine. Stronger than a YS 175, turning the same props at higher revs

Thank you!!
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