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  1. #1

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    Mach1 question before upcoming build

    hello to all I am about to start building the Mach 1. I have purchased a short kit and foam cores from Eureka Aircraft and the plans from MAN(I think) anyways i also have a Midwest products plan for the same Mach1, after recieving my order from National balsa all the wood is here to begin. I have been looking over both plans and i find the the Eurekc plan(MAN) is Longer in length when macthing up the fuse sides from the wing to tail in about 1" longer than shown on the Midwest plan. is it better to be longer here or shorter? i can change it to match the Midwest plan or proceed with the Eureka/MAN plan.

    this is my first Pattern plane and I love the look of most of the pattern planes..

    any help would be great
    thanks in advance..
    -Tracey aka Pilotx
    CORSAIR Brotherhood # 62

  2. #2
    Roguedog's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    pilotx,

    I would say longer woud be better.


    Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

  3. #3
    stuntflyr's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Longer is better.
    Chris...

  4. #4
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Remember moving every thing 1" back will move the CG a lot. consider the weight of your engine and pipe or not. Not very much room for moving stuff around on the M1. The plane flew great the way Norm designed it. Talk to people who made it 1" longer see what problems they had with CG if any. You don't want to add dead weight to get the balance. M1 flies great when weight is controlled. Just my opinion, you will have fun building and flying this Classic.
    Ron McCormick
    AMA 53109, CPA 6, NSRCA 726

  5. #5
    AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    The original RCM plan is longer. Midwest shortened it. They also changed the construction technique from a basic box fuse, to a laminated lumber yard.
    Don\'\'t just stand there, go get some glue!

  6. #6

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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    So if I get this right, the MAN original plan is the desired and correct way to build this plane, and the Midwest shorter version was done to kit the plane.

    So I will build as per original plan? I did notice the block by block laminating process that is the Midwest Products plan, to me seems the sure way to build HEAVY and I dont want that...
    -Tracey aka Pilotx
    CORSAIR Brotherhood # 62

  7. #7
    RFJ's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    the RCM original plan
    That would be MAN. Published in the June 1973 issue.

    Ray

  8. #8

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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    RFJ: yes this plan and the original build article from Model Aviation News. and I am comparing to Midwest Products plan.. the MAN plan is correct to the part's from Eureka Short Kit
    -Tracey aka Pilotx
    CORSAIR Brotherhood # 62

  9. #9

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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Kit manufacturers often make changes to accomodate the box sizes they can get or have on hand. J & J pattern plane kits being a notable example.

  10. #10

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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    OK guys, after looking at these plans closer I have found that the(Midwest Products Co.) plans are 3/8inches shorter over all and looking at the wing, it is moved 3/8inches Aft, the C.G. is also moved although it is moved forward 3/8inches.


    Question is how does this change the plane, did Midwest improve it or do the MAN plans offer a better plane, or no difference at all?

    Sorry for asking all the questions. I just don't want to start off one way then find out that I had a chance to correct it.

    Oh one more thing what glue to use to skin the wings and stab? A fellow builder friend suggested 3M Super77?



    -Tracey aka Pilotx
    CORSAIR Brotherhood # 62

  11. #11

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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Hey Pilotx,

    Will you be doing a build thread on your Mach 1? I don't remember seeing one here on RCUniverse since I've been a subscriber.

    David
    Fly Safe and Have Fun ! ! !
    Ultra Sport Brotherhood #22

  12. #12

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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Not sure yet but will definitely think it over I'm not sure how committed I will be to keeping it up to date. I hope to have this close to glassing before Christmas. we'll see
    I also have a Mustang to put the finish on. both of which I want to have complete by spring flying season 2013.
    -Tracey aka Pilotx
    CORSAIR Brotherhood # 62

  13. #13
    PatternPilot's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Needs to be the old formula of 3M Super 77 or it will eat the foam.. I usually get a case from Canada and split it with a few other builders.

    cpa#2
    Scott Anderson - CPA #2 - www.ClassicPatternAssociation.com - Team Airtronics SD10G - NSRCA 529 - VRCS 236

  14. #14
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Brings back a lot of memories.  Built the Midwest kit back in '75.  Super Tiger blue head 60.  Pro Line radio . Goldburg retracts.  Also built a Mach 8 40 size version.
    AMA 50764
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  15. #15

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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Hi, The midwest kit/plan is a very different than the plane Norm Page designed. The plans from MAN are much closer to the model Norn Page won the Masters with than the kit even though the completed model looks the same. I have a set of plans directly from Norm. One of the differences that you have not seen is the real Mach 1 has a foam core Fin that the airfoil is thicker on the right side than the left to counter act the torq so the plane tracks stright. The other differences you have noted. The wing is also very different on the plans built model than the kit.

  16. #16
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    ORIGINAL: hrrcflyer

    Hey Pilotx,

    Will you be doing a build thread on your Mach 1? I don't remember seeing one here on RCUniverse since I've been a subscriber.

    David
    David,

    Leo has an M1 build thread along with his Sequel thread. Both models remain to be finished according to the latest news (I was in touch with Leo recently). Here's his M1 thread:

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8532968/tm.htm

    David

  17. #17
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Definitely MAN plans. Longer is better for a pattern ship. It wouldn't hurt to move the wing back slightly if it looks like it will be a bit tail heavy.
    I used Bolly laminating resin for years, but I think it is no longer available. I now use Z Poxy finishing resin, which works well.
    There is no such thing as too much power.

  18. #18
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    I have a Midwest Mach 1 kit with a partially built fuselage. I got a chuckle out of it being a flying lumber yard. It is a complex looking fuselage build but hopefully it won't be too heavy when all said and done. I think a lot of it gets sanded away to achieve the rounded contours. I don't think they were very concerned with weight back then. Classic pattern ships fly fast.

    Good luck on your build. Pictures would be appreciated.
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  19. #19
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build


    ORIGINAL: pilotx
    Sorry for asking all the questions. I just don't want to start off one way then find out that I had a chance to correct it.

    Oh one more thing what glue to use to skin the wings and stab? A fellow builder friend suggested 3M Super77?
    The few of us left who still build our stuff prefer either epoxy or Pro-Bond/Gorilla PU glue. Bonding is permanent with either one of these. For the small wing of vintage models, it won't take more than 1/2 oz each panel. The epoxy or polyurethane glue is applied sparringly to the sheeting. I prefer epoxy since it gives much greater working time before kicking off. But I never use the stuff you get at the LHS.

    Go to US Composite site and buy their laminating epoxy. It's inexpensive and works well with about a 50 min pot life. Pro Bond or Gorilla begins to kick off in about 25 mins so you'd have to work faster

    I used the 3M product only once and wasn't pleased when too much of the skin lifted after a few dozen flights. Probably didn't use enough spray. Spray makes it an easy application but you'd have to spray enough of it to work right.

    Before applying any adhesive to either sheeting of foam, use a tack rag to remove dust residue.....Good luck
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  20. #20
    countilaw's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Epoxy is better than contact cement because you can move the sheeting around to get it placed right. With contact cement, you get one chance to lay it down and get it right. However, if you like Contact Cement, Home Depot has a water based contact cement in quart cans. It works extremely well. It is white,so if you use it, put some food coloring in it so you can see how much you are applying to the white foam core.

    There used to be a product out called, "Southern Sorgham" it was great stuff.

    Frank
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  21. #21
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    A well-built, ready-to-fly Mach I will weigh just about 8 pounds. That includes a .61-size engine, muffler, and retracts. They fly very well at that weight. Of course, a bit lighter might be better, but heavier is not.

    Get yourself the very small Stanley block plane. It's about 1" wide and 3" long. This will be used to contour the fuselage to the point it's looking nice and round. Smooth it with sandpaper. Start with 120-grit and continue to 220, 320, and maybe to 400 before you paint or cover. The smoother the balsa, the better the final finish. You won't need to go much finer than 320 or 400 for the sandpaper.


    Bill Baxter, Manager Hobby Services/Futaba Service/North America
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  22. #22
    Quikturn's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Good to know Bax. Thanks!
    No matter how many times I cut it, it's still too short!

    Ultrasport Brotherhood #45, P-51 Brotherhood #34, P-40 Brotherhood #35, Saito Club member #799, Spitfire Brotherhood #173, Glow head #18

  23. #23
    MTK's Avatar
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    RE: Mach1 question before upcoming build

    Bax,

    The OS33GT you fixed for me early this year has worked incredibly well. I have about 11 gallons of avgas through it now, some 60 hours of operation.

    Some kind of engine. Stronger than a YS 175, turning the same props at higher revs

    Thank you!!
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)


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