Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 42 of 42

Thread: El Gringo


  1. #26
    Skip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Newnan, GA
    Posts
    633
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    [:@] jeeeze guys I hate to start a firestorm but even full scale designers learn from others. I see no problem with that because it is a sign of respect for the other guy. A plane is a plane: wings, tail, airfoil etc. But many of a planes' appearances are simply cosmetic. A good looking plane with sleek proportional lines usually is a good flier. I love P-51's the El gringo is a pattern plane thaat looks a lot like that so I built it. Here's a flash: It does not fly as well as my SPA Phantom designed at about the same time though. I love to build and I love to fly what I build. This is a great hobby. I get a kick out the many different opinons of my fellow R/C ers. We are a group of very diverse and interesting backgrounds but not quiet "wall flowers" . Ha!!
    Highly skilled at at hiding new kits from wife ( Or so I thought)!!

  2. #27
    sehlers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    ft worth, TX
    Posts
    50
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    eness76-RCU and Skip ,

    Well said and my thought also . I was going to bring up the Astro hog similarity also . I really don't give a Rat's A_ _ what the Taurus flier thinks
    ,knows ,or assumes . Like Skip said ,it's all about fun and Comradery between us flying old pattern planes . Oh Skip , since it doesn't fly as well as
    a later design you might consider looking over all the details of the El Toro and make sure you back date your plane so it will fly better ....

    Apparently those El Toros can't be Beat because they are The West Coast' best contest fliers ! Oh well , maybe us out east can out fly those Prune pickers ! :-)
    Steve
    When Inverted ,Down is up ,and Up is Expensive when close to the Ground !

  3. #28

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    na, TX
    Posts
    162
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo


    ORIGINAL: sehlers

    Proparc ,
    Skips plane looks the Same as the late version ,with the Mustang type tail placements .Don't know why you think it has cleaner lines
    when in fact it doesn't look like the original RCM version . This has to mean that Eddie at Lazor Werks is Not cutting the airplane the
    same as the RCM plans or maybe Skip changed to the late design Fuselage moments .
    I should have said, that I like the Yellow plane in the picture whatever it is LOL.

  4. #29
    Skip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Newnan, GA
    Posts
    633
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    Careful..... us old guys need prunes LOL!!!
    Highly skilled at at hiding new kits from wife ( Or so I thought)!!

  5. #30

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    772
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    Just thought I'd add some eye candy to the thread.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pn35601.gif 
Views:	26 
Size:	79.6 KB 
ID:	1832708  

  6. #31

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    1,252
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    ORIGINAL: RCDENT

    Great job Skip!Β* Brings back a lot of memories for me too.Β* Always thought it was one of the coolest looking pattern planes out there.Β*Β* Looked like a B model P-51 without the belly scoop.Β* Built a couple of them back inΒ*the day.Β*Β*Still remember carving out that top block!Β* Ted was one of the first pattern guys to use retracts.Β*Β* Was always a thrill to watch Ted White fly it.Β* Anyone know what ever happened to Ted?Β* Thanks for sharing the photo with us.
    Dewey

    Ted is still around and still lives in Bedford, TX. My understanding is that he flies very little, if any, these days, due to eye problems. A real shame. Ted and I used to fly together a lot. One of the finest demo and airshow pilots ever, but was a little hampered in pattern competition by his fierce independent streak and a desire to do his own thing his own way...
    Electric Coolhunter

  7. #32
    Taurus Flyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Almelo, NETHERLANDS
    Posts
    2,395
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    Gents,

    Maybe interesting to look at this post of Mike Denest he wrote some time ago.

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3430902

    El Toro of Marty Moad also shown by Mike Denest as the precursor of El Gringo, so I am not the only one and observe the history of the USA of quite a distant.

    The whole tread started by Rainedave;
    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_34...tm.htm#3415884


    Cees

  8. #33

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    North Aurora, IL
    Posts
    888
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    ORIGINAL: sehlers

    Taurus Flyer -

    From your post I assume you are inferring that Ted White Stole the Design ,Renamed it , and took credit for it ??? Because a person named Marty Moad made an Airplane called El Toro - in the early 60's .......

    Other than having a Spanish name with a Masculine Prefix ,there are little similarities in the airframe design . There are no numerical dimensions in your plans to compare specifically ,but suffice it to say the fuse moments are different ,the fuse is construction is different ,The horizontal span is different ,the Rudder design is different, the Wing Airfoils are different .I can go on .....

    Furthermore , the Horizontal movement was made by Ted in his design for the reasons I gave ,not to look like or copy the El Toro .

    From what I know about R/C Precision acrobatics , in 1962 were they even doing 4 and 8 point rolls ? Slow Rolls ?? Knife Edge ? I don't have a 1961 AMA rule book or FIA manual ,if there was such a thing ,so I don't know with out some research .

    Again Ted moved the tail to correct a pitching condition his first design had ,as he told me . Again if he stole the Idea from Moad ,you should lay blame also to Joe Bridi for using the same design criteria in his Super Koas in 1973 ....

    What you are saying is basically, if an airplane has Any design trait or look of Any previously flown aircraft it Must be a Copy ......

    Wow, the FAI and Masters pattern flyers of today would have a litigation nightmare with that one !

    I will Talk to Ted personally and report back here with the "Truth" about the El Toro vs El Gringo Debate !

    Happy Holidays to all !!!
    Sehlers (Steve),

    Give no mind to Taurass Flyer, he enjoys polluting every thread that contains any bit of information he deems unsuitable. It's much like the (his) "RC World according to Cees". As many have done, simply block him because a case of Summers Eve istoo difficulttoapply over the Internet.
    hook

  9. #34
    Taurus Flyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Almelo, NETHERLANDS
    Posts
    2,395
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    ORIGINAL: sehlers

    Taurus Flyer -

    From your post I assume you are inferring that Ted White Stole the Design ,Renamed it , and took credit for it ??? Because a person named Marty Moad made an Airplane called El Toro - in the early 60's .......

    Other than having a Spanish name with a Masculine Prefix ,there are little similarities in the airframe design . There are no numerical dimensions in your plans to compare specifically ,but suffice it to say the fuse moments are different ,the fuse is construction is different ,The horizontal span is different ,the Rudder design is different, the Wing Airfoils are different .I can go on .....

    Furthermore , the Horizontal movement was made by Ted in his design for the reasons I gave ,not to look like or copy the El Toro .

    From what I know about R/C Precision acrobatics , in 1962 were they even doing 4 and 8 point rolls ? Slow Rolls ?? Knife Edge ? I don't have a 1961 AMA rule book or FIA manual ,if there was such a thing ,so I don't know with out some research .

    Again Ted moved the tail to correct a pitching condition his first design had ,as he told me . Again if he stole the Idea from Moad ,you should lay blame also to Joe Bridi for using the same design criteria in his Super Koas in 1973 ....

    What you are saying is basically, if an airplane has Any design trait or look of Any previously flown aircraft it Must be a Copy ......

    Wow, the FAI and Masters pattern flyers of today would have a litigation nightmare with that one !

    I will Talk to Ted personally and report back here with the ''Truth'' about the El Toro vs El Gringo Debate !

    Happy Holidays to all !!!
    And Steve, sehlers,
    What was the result? I would like to hear so I can store the information in my database.

    BTW, short note:
    Same thing happened with the Taurus history. People did claim one of them was directly involved with development of the earliest example of the Top Flite/MAN Taurus in cooperation with Ed Kazmirski, untill later much older detailed commercial plans made by the draftsman of Ed Kamirski himself showed up.
    Never any serious response anymore, the person was visiting his family and would be asked to response later, only some weak arguments about pieces of brown paper send to Rhodesia were remaining.

    So what they claimed there already would have been an exact identic Taurus built by one of them in Rhodesia when Ed would arrive there in April 1962?? A back-up Taurus exact identical for when Ed could not finish his own??? Build with use of these sktetches on brown paper??

    Interesting that we read local modelers were very exited when Ed did open his crate the first time after arriving and people did see Ed's Taurus the first time, even there already was a Taurus on exact same location in that house in Rhodesia if we might believe the people with that claim.
    Strange, pieces of brown paper, when commercial plans already were available, nearly exact the same as used by Top Flite.

    As you make a claim, you have to be shure about the history because we check the details, also now.

    So, realy, I like to see this "Truth" but, of course not some kind of weak story. You saw I also did show you the pattern scheme of that early period!


    Taurus Flyer

  10. #35
    eness76-RCU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    383
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    Skip, any flight updates? Any additional pics? Would love to hear how the trimming is coming, how she knife edges, uplines/downlines, things like that. Give us a little about the flight characteristics.

  11. #36
    countilaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Grand Prairie, TX
    Posts
    1,040
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo


    ORIGINAL: hook57

    ORIGINAL: sehlers

    Taurus Flyer -

    From your post I assume you are inferring that Ted White Stole the Design ,Renamed it , and took credit for it ??? Because a person named Marty Moad made an Airplane called El Toro - in the early 60's .......

    Other than having a Spanish name with a Masculine Prefix ,there are little similarities in the airframe design . There are no numerical dimensions in your plans to compare specifically ,but suffice it to say the fuse moments are different ,the fuse is construction is different ,The horizontal span is different ,the Rudder design is different, the Wing Airfoils are different .I can go on .....

    Furthermore , the Horizontal movement was made by Ted in his design for the reasons I gave ,not to look like or copy the El Toro .

    From what I know about R/C Precision acrobatics , in 1962 were they even doing 4 and 8 point rolls ? Slow Rolls ?? Knife Edge ? I don't have a 1961 AMA rule book or FIA manual ,if there was such a thing ,so I don't know with out some research .

    Again Ted moved the tail to correct a pitching condition his first design had ,as he told me . Again if he stole the Idea from Moad ,you should lay blame also to Joe Bridi for using the same design criteria in his Super Koas in 1973 ....

    What you are saying is basically, if an airplane has Any design trait or look of Any previously flown aircraft it Must be a Copy ......

    Wow, the FAI and Masters pattern flyers of today would have a litigation nightmare with that one !

    I will Talk to Ted personally and report back here with the "Truth" about the El Toro vs El Gringo Debate !

    Happy Holidays to all !!!
    Sehlers (Steve),

    Give no mind to Taurass Flyer, he enjoys polluting every thread that contains any bit of information he deems unsuitable. It's much like the (his) "RC World according to Cees". As many have done, simply block him because a case of Summers Eve istoo difficulttoapply over the Internet.
    hook
    +1

    Frank

    AMA #5810
    CPA # 73
    Contest Director
    AMA Introductory Flight Instructor
    Club Safety Officer

  12. #37
    eness76-RCU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Dublin, OH
    Posts
    383
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    While scanning the MA digital archives, I came across this great shot of Ted White's EL Gringos from the 79 Lincoln Nats. We've seen the P51 and Messerschmitt versions, here's a British version for good measure.

  13. #38

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    772
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    Nice.

  14. #39
    Taurus Flyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Almelo, NETHERLANDS
    Posts
    2,395
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    ORIGINAL: countilaw


    ORIGINAL: hook57

    ORIGINAL: sehlers

    Taurus Flyer -

    From your post I assume you are inferring that Ted White Stole the Design ,Renamed it , and took credit for it ??? Because a person named Marty Moad made an Airplane called El Toro - in the early 60's .......

    Other than having a Spanish name with a Masculine Prefix ,there are little similarities in the airframe design . There are no numerical dimensions in your plans to compare specifically ,but suffice it to say the fuse moments are different ,the fuse is construction is different ,The horizontal span is different ,the Rudder design is different, the Wing Airfoils are different .I can go on .....

    Furthermore , the Horizontal movement was made by Ted in his design for the reasons I gave ,not to look like or copy the El Toro .

    From what I know about R/C Precision acrobatics , in 1962 were they even doing 4 and 8 point rolls ? Slow Rolls ?? Knife Edge ? I don't have a 1961 AMA rule book or FIA manual ,if there was such a thing ,so I don't know with out some research .

    Again Ted moved the tail to correct a pitching condition his first design had ,as he told me . Again if he stole the Idea from Moad ,you should lay blame also to Joe Bridi for using the same design criteria in his Super Koas in 1973 ....

    What you are saying is basically, if an airplane has Any design trait or look of Any previously flown aircraft it Must be a Copy ......

    Wow, the FAI and Masters pattern flyers of today would have a litigation nightmare with that one !

    I will Talk to Ted personally and report back here with the ''Truth'' about the El Toro vs El Gringo Debate !

    Happy Holidays to all !!!
    Sehlers (Steve),

    Give no mind to Taurass Flyer, he enjoys polluting every thread that contains any bit of information he deems unsuitable. It's much like the (his) ''RC World according to Cees''. As many have done, simply block him because a case of Summers Eve isΒ*too difficultΒ*toΒ*apply over the Internet.
    hook
    +1

    Frank


    Frank,

    This was the link I showed in post 32:


    ORIGINAL: Mike Denest


    ORIGINAL: kdheath

    Another one I have in my stash of to-do-someday plans is Ted White's El Gringo. TEd was one of those Texas balls-out flyers and great fun to watch. There is also a 40 size El Gringito.

    http://www.rcmmagazine.com/e/env/000...m=plans:PL-436
    Hi KD,
    That one is a later updated version. The design originally goes back to around 1961 or so (El Toro TF). I have a copy of American Modeler with a small plan of the original design as a tailgragger. I scanned the drawings then imported it into Autocad then traced the outlines. I'm almost finished with the plans but need to do some wing rib lofting as yet. Here's a peek at what I have done.
    I am not the only modeler that sees the developments of several low wing models on the time path and in the past knowledge of course was widely spread under the pattern flyers.

    When you know the Orion, you know the El Toro, El Gringo and the El Gringito.

    And of course all designs are influenced by earlier models!
    What's wrong to write that? Read the whole thread,

    http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_34...tm.htm#3430902

    Or didn't knew the designer of the El Gringo the El Toro?
    Hard to believe when you read al the articles of the past, even people did live at another coast. That's my opinion I show in this thread, no more no less.

    As an example see my "Mustang". the Orion with inverted engine and retracts!



    Cees
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fd93292.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	143.1 KB 
ID:	1867460  

  15. #40
    Taurus Flyer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Almelo, NETHERLANDS
    Posts
    2,395
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    ORIGINAL: sehlers

    Taurus Flyer -

    From your post I assume you are inferring that Ted White Stole the Design ,Renamed it , and took credit for it ??? Because a person named Marty Moad made an Airplane called El Toro - in the early 60's .......

    Other than having a Spanish name with a Masculine Prefix ,there are little similarities in the airframe design . There are no numerical dimensions in your plans to compare specifically ,but suffice it to say the fuse moments are different ,the fuse is construction is different ,The horizontal span is different ,the Rudder design is different, the Wing Airfoils are different .I can go on .....

    Furthermore , the Horizontal movement was made by Ted in his design for the reasons I gave ,not to look like or copy the El Toro .

    From what I know about R/C Precision acrobatics , in 1962 were they even doing 4 and 8 point rolls ? Slow Rolls ?? Knife Edge ? I don't have a 1961 AMA rule book or FIA manual ,if there was such a thing ,so I don't know with out some research .

    Again Ted moved the tail to correct a pitching condition his first design had ,as he told me . Again if he stole the Idea from Moad ,you should lay blame also to Joe Bridi for using the same design criteria in his Super Koas in 1973 ....

    What you are saying is basically, if an airplane has Any design trait or look of Any previously flown aircraft it Must be a Copy ......

    Wow, the FAI and Masters pattern flyers of today would have a litigation nightmare with that one !

    I will Talk to Ted personally and report back here with the ''Truth'' about the El Toro vs El Gringo Debate !

    Happy Holidays to all !!!

    Gents, read, Ted White,


    I would like to be able to say I designed the β€œEl Gringo” from scratch with no help, and that it was al mathematecally and scientifically engineered. However, needles to say, that is not true. It is a combination of many airplanes that I have flown or have seen flown. There are three airplanes, in particular, that I considered to have both the lines, stability and maneuverability I wanted. One of them was Jack Butler’s β€œMoody”. Another was Martin Moad’s β€œEl Toro” and the third was Eddy Morgans take off of the β€œMoody”. Having flown the β€œEl Toro” and Eddy Morgans β€œMoody”, they were found to be very fast and extremely smouth in maneuvers. However wanting an airplane that I could call my own and incorporating some pet ideas of my own resulted in the design and construction of the β€œEl Gringo”

    TED WHITE


    Subject is closed for me, proved is I was right.
    For Ted White the El Toro was one of the planes as an example for his design the El Gringo, he even did fly the El Toro himself before!.
    Of course I never used "stole" but did want to show he used the El Toro as (one of) the example(s)!


    Cees



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Sq47354.jpg 
Views:	14 
Size:	162.9 KB 
ID:	1867491  

  16. #41
    Moderator CGRetired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Galloway, NJ
    Posts
    8,999
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: El Gringo

    Ok, Cees. Let's not create a situation where a minor comment gets escalated to a war. Keep it simple and dial down the rhetoric or I will begin to delete your posts.

    CGRetired
    Moderator
    Skylark 70 - OS .75 AX; Excelleron 90 - OS 1.20 AX; Venus II - OS 1.20 AX; And, I still fly my trainer, Hanger 9 Alpha - OS .46 FX! Some electrics. Airtronics RD8000 - Spektrum DX7 - DX6i. AMA 705964.
    Semper Paratus!

  17. #42

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    772
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:59 PM.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.