Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
12-22-2012, 07:53 AM
#27
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
8178 always has the BEST threads!
Thank you for doing this project.
We are very fortunate to hear from Mr. Wisniewski.
Did I mention this is a great thread? Just wait until we see 8178's craftsmanship... Be prepared to have your mind blown! I appreciate his desire to hold to originality, celebrating the design and all those who had their input put into the designs.
Brian
Thank you for doing this project.
We are very fortunate to hear from Mr. Wisniewski.
Did I mention this is a great thread? Just wait until we see 8178's craftsmanship... Be prepared to have your mind blown! I appreciate his desire to hold to originality, celebrating the design and all those who had their input put into the designs.
Brian
12-22-2012, 08:04 AM
#28
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: Rubbernecker
For you guys actually flying the Skylark, is it like the plans & 3 channel or did you add ailerons? And if you added ailerons, how much dihedral did you remove if any?
John
For you guys actually flying the Skylark, is it like the plans & 3 channel or did you add ailerons? And if you added ailerons, how much dihedral did you remove if any?
John
12-23-2012, 07:40 AM
#30
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RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
The dihedral on my Skylark with ailerons is about 3" under one wing tip with the other flat to the workbench. It is a sweet flying airplane. It will never be a contender in a pattern contest but then it was designed in the late 60's or so. It does what it is supposed to do - provide a lot of relaxing fun in the air.
12-23-2012, 08:16 AM
#31
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
I’ve been refreshing my memory of my last Skylark build in 1966, reviewing the plans and working though ideas on how I might do this build. Kind of thinking through this out loud, but here is the outline of my plan so far:
Background
After I built my Skylark using all kit parts in 1966 and before I flew it, I ended up replacing the original wing with a symmetrical wing with ailerons and a small amount of dihedral. At the same time swapped out the small OS engine I had on it for the larger Supertiger G21 46. The G21 needed a larger fuel supply and because of the limited space I used a bladder fuel cell. The bladder fuel cell worked OK but fueling was a bit of a pain because you had to suck all the air out of it each time and then add the fuel.
Overall
Use the kit parts as templates only to preserve the kit parts. Keep all of the outlines authentic to the original kit but update the construction in some areas. I want it to look like a kit built Skylark and be faithful to the design. Use my Kraft 7C radio for nostalgia. Fixed trike gear, but it would be cool with mini-retracts. Not much room in the nose though.
Fuselage
Follow the same construction but one piece fuselage sides. Keep the top hatch and modify the front compartment area for a larger fuel tank. Because of the limited space in the nose for the 46 will need to use beam engine mounts but cut them thin where they extend into the front compartment. I need to make room for a real fuel tank that is sized for the 46. Think I will use some type of engine mounting plate like in the kit so I can use different engines if I need too. My RC Club may balk at a 46 with no muffler if I fly it often. Change fuselage to a bolt on wing. Set the engine, wing and stab at 0, 0, 0. The wing and stab both have a bunch of positive incidence in relation to the engine thrust line that will need to be reduced to zero or the engine will end up with a bunch of unwanted down thrust. See incidence images below.
To be continued…
Background
After I built my Skylark using all kit parts in 1966 and before I flew it, I ended up replacing the original wing with a symmetrical wing with ailerons and a small amount of dihedral. At the same time swapped out the small OS engine I had on it for the larger Supertiger G21 46. The G21 needed a larger fuel supply and because of the limited space I used a bladder fuel cell. The bladder fuel cell worked OK but fueling was a bit of a pain because you had to suck all the air out of it each time and then add the fuel.
Overall
Use the kit parts as templates only to preserve the kit parts. Keep all of the outlines authentic to the original kit but update the construction in some areas. I want it to look like a kit built Skylark and be faithful to the design. Use my Kraft 7C radio for nostalgia. Fixed trike gear, but it would be cool with mini-retracts. Not much room in the nose though.
Fuselage
Follow the same construction but one piece fuselage sides. Keep the top hatch and modify the front compartment area for a larger fuel tank. Because of the limited space in the nose for the 46 will need to use beam engine mounts but cut them thin where they extend into the front compartment. I need to make room for a real fuel tank that is sized for the 46. Think I will use some type of engine mounting plate like in the kit so I can use different engines if I need too. My RC Club may balk at a 46 with no muffler if I fly it often. Change fuselage to a bolt on wing. Set the engine, wing and stab at 0, 0, 0. The wing and stab both have a bunch of positive incidence in relation to the engine thrust line that will need to be reduced to zero or the engine will end up with a bunch of unwanted down thrust. See incidence images below.
To be continued…
12-23-2012, 08:18 AM
#32
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Wing
Change to a D tube design with the original 10” cord and 1.375” thickness (13.75%) but use a modified NACA 64 series symmetrical airfoil with thickest section at about 40%. My friend Tony Howard from Pacific Scaled Aircraft http://www.pacific-scaled-aircraft.com/ is plotting and doing the CAD work on the airfoil for me. Open frame wing construction with cap strips on the ribs and a fairly large sheeted area on the back area of the wing to cut in ailerons. I plan to cut in the ailerons after the wing is built like I did on the Kwik Fli III foam wing http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2435056 . Reduce the dihedral to a small amount but enough not to lose the character of the Skylark. I plan to build it light and use light radio gear so it should be a bit faster with the thin symmetrical wing but also perform well in slow flight. Widen the main gear track; the original gear track is pretty narrow for a 56” wing span. See NACA airfoil outline image below, working on the plan for the wing spars, etc.
To be continued…
Change to a D tube design with the original 10” cord and 1.375” thickness (13.75%) but use a modified NACA 64 series symmetrical airfoil with thickest section at about 40%. My friend Tony Howard from Pacific Scaled Aircraft http://www.pacific-scaled-aircraft.com/ is plotting and doing the CAD work on the airfoil for me. Open frame wing construction with cap strips on the ribs and a fairly large sheeted area on the back area of the wing to cut in ailerons. I plan to cut in the ailerons after the wing is built like I did on the Kwik Fli III foam wing http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2435056 . Reduce the dihedral to a small amount but enough not to lose the character of the Skylark. I plan to build it light and use light radio gear so it should be a bit faster with the thin symmetrical wing but also perform well in slow flight. Widen the main gear track; the original gear track is pretty narrow for a 56” wing span. See NACA airfoil outline image below, working on the plan for the wing spars, etc.
To be continued…
12-23-2012, 08:19 AM
#33
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Horizontal Stab
It is already symmetrical but will change it to D tube and keeping the same outline and increase the cord of elevators by moving the hinge point forward. Considering making it bolt on so it has the original kit appearance, seams, etc. Let’s see, I wonder how fake rubber bands would look!
Vertical stab
Move the rudder hinge point further forward for more rudder area or maybe make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area. I don’t want to change the outline of the design. Make the stab and rudder from 1/4” balsa rather than 3/16” to use Dubro hinges and airfoil shaping. Need to figure out a different rudder linkage so the pushrod does not go over the top of the horizontal stab. See stab area image below.
To be continued…
It is already symmetrical but will change it to D tube and keeping the same outline and increase the cord of elevators by moving the hinge point forward. Considering making it bolt on so it has the original kit appearance, seams, etc. Let’s see, I wonder how fake rubber bands would look!
Vertical stab
Move the rudder hinge point further forward for more rudder area or maybe make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area. I don’t want to change the outline of the design. Make the stab and rudder from 1/4” balsa rather than 3/16” to use Dubro hinges and airfoil shaping. Need to figure out a different rudder linkage so the pushrod does not go over the top of the horizontal stab. See stab area image below.
To be continued…
12-23-2012, 08:21 AM
#34
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Color Scheme
Silk and dope would be way cool! But, I think I’ll go with translucent red film with back trim and try to match the color scheme on the box.
For those of you that are Skylark fans feel free to add your ideas and comments.
To be continued…
Silk and dope would be way cool! But, I think I’ll go with translucent red film with back trim and try to match the color scheme on the box.
For those of you that are Skylark fans feel free to add your ideas and comments.
To be continued…
12-23-2012, 12:02 PM
#37
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: Roguedog
How about like this.
ORIGINAL: 8178
Vertical stab
make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area.
Vertical stab
make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area.
Thanks, that drawing is from the later variant with the wider nose? I remember that they changed the rudder too.
12-23-2012, 12:36 PM
#38
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Tony completed my wing drawing so now I need to get my balsa and start building. I’ll be using some hard wood for the front spars with webbing. The small back spars are part of the plan for the aileron cut in.
To be continued…
To be continued…
12-23-2012, 04:19 PM
#39
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RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: 8178
Roguedog
Thanks, that drawing is from the later variant with the wider nose? I remember that they changed the rudder too.
ORIGINAL: Roguedog
How about like this.
ORIGINAL: 8178
Vertical stab
make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area.
Vertical stab
make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area.
Thanks, that drawing is from the later variant with the wider nose? I remember that they changed the rudder too.
He did a nicejob on the rib template.
12-23-2012, 04:24 PM
#40
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RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Why not use the later Skylark with 1 piece sides and symmetrical wing? It has all your mods,wide nose,simetrical bolt on wing,larger fuel tank space. Just add the old style fin.I had both and the newer version flys like crap.I really like the semi symmetrical wing much better,much smoother because I like to do alot of slow low level inverted aerobatics.
12-23-2012, 05:12 PM
#41
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: Roguedog
I didn't know that they did that. The Rudder modification above was just done by me right after I read your post. I started with this original. see pic. I think the Falcon 56 is on it's fourth version kit wise, with two arf versions. I don't know which version I have of Skylark.
He did a nice job on the rib template.
ORIGINAL: 8178
Roguedog
Thanks, that drawing is from the later variant with the wider nose? I remember that they changed the rudder too.
ORIGINAL: Roguedog
How about like this.
ORIGINAL: 8178
Vertical stab
make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area.
Vertical stab
make the tail end of the fuselage part of the rudder to add more area.
Thanks, that drawing is from the later variant with the wider nose? I remember that they changed the rudder too.
He did a nice job on the rib template.
I’m really not sure but it seems like I remember a variant with the rudder going to the bottom. It might be this one http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...LARK-56-04.jpg
Tony did do a great job on the template. He is a pretty talented guy.
12-23-2012, 05:26 PM
#42
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: toolmaker7341
Why not use the later Skylark with 1 piece sides and symmetrical wing? It has all your mods,wide nose,simetrical bolt on wing,larger fuel tank space. Just add the old style fin.I had both and the newer version flys like crap.I really like the semi symmetrical wing much better,much smoother because I like to do alot of slow low level inverted aerobatics.
Why not use the later Skylark with 1 piece sides and symmetrical wing? It has all your mods,wide nose,simetrical bolt on wing,larger fuel tank space. Just add the old style fin.I had both and the newer version flys like crap.I really like the semi symmetrical wing much better,much smoother because I like to do alot of slow low level inverted aerobatics.
I thought about that, but then I came across this kit that is the same vintage as I had before and I want to keep it original and un-built for nostalgia’s sake. I do want to keep the narrow nose and recreate what I built decades ago. Besides it will be a good excuse to make balsa dust!
12-23-2012, 07:10 PM
#43
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RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
I went to the Carl Goldberg website and the Skylark Mark II has the full length rudder as you surmised on page 12 of the manual.
Skylark 56 mark II Manual http://manuals.hobbico.com/gbg/gbga1085-manual.pdf
I must have the earlier version plan.
Skylark 56 mark II Manual http://manuals.hobbico.com/gbg/gbga1085-manual.pdf
I must have the earlier version plan.
12-23-2012, 07:17 PM
#44
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: Roguedog
I went to the Carl Goldberg website and the Skylark Mark II has the full length rudder as you surmised on page 12 of the manual.
Skylark 56 mark II Manual http://manuals.hobbico.com/gbg/gbga1085-manual.pdf
I must have the earlier version plan.
I went to the Carl Goldberg website and the Skylark Mark II has the full length rudder as you surmised on page 12 of the manual.
Skylark 56 mark II Manual http://manuals.hobbico.com/gbg/gbga1085-manual.pdf
I must have the earlier version plan.
12-24-2012, 10:21 AM
#45
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Mike,
Why did you decide to use the NACA64A-1x (enlarged to 13.75% thick) on the open structure wing?
See your post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11341515
It's very unusual and even inadvisable for several reasons IMO.
Cees
Why did you decide to use the NACA64A-1x (enlarged to 13.75% thick) on the open structure wing?
See your post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11341515
It's very unusual and even inadvisable for several reasons IMO.
Cees
12-24-2012, 07:28 PM
#46
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RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: 8178
The Skylark kit.
The Skylark kit.
12-25-2012, 03:09 AM
#47
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Mike,
Maybe you didn't read my post yet, so some added information.
Because I designed a lot of airplanes myself I normally recognize the original airfoils of the famous models, so also this airfoil of the Skylark There is even an interesting fact to write, this airfoil has a special shape and that's the reason it is worldwide known related to a special french airplane design!
I discovered a thyread on RCU about what kind of airfoil was used, unsolved, and maybe that's still the case. Would be strange because how can you make a better choise when you don't know the original and his capabilities, but ala!
This post and part of that thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10487563
No, Mark, nice story but the airfoil has nothing to do with the NACA14/24/44xx.
If you are interested in the original airfoil let me know and I will make a post with some background information and x-y coordinates.
Cees
Maybe you didn't read my post yet, so some added information.
Because I designed a lot of airplanes myself I normally recognize the original airfoils of the famous models, so also this airfoil of the Skylark There is even an interesting fact to write, this airfoil has a special shape and that's the reason it is worldwide known related to a special french airplane design!
I discovered a thyread on RCU about what kind of airfoil was used, unsolved, and maybe that's still the case. Would be strange because how can you make a better choise when you don't know the original and his capabilities, but ala!
This post and part of that thread:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10487563
No, Mark, nice story but the airfoil has nothing to do with the NACA14/24/44xx.
If you are interested in the original airfoil let me know and I will make a post with some background information and x-y coordinates.
Cees
12-25-2012, 05:45 AM
#48
Senior Member
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Cees, There was a thread on RCGroups that looked for the origin and identity of the Falcon/Skylark airfoil.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...con+56+airfoil
The findings were that it is a NACA 25014.
What is it about this airfoil that you didn't like?
Or the open wing structure?
I've used this airfoil on many airplanes and I am very happy with it. My first Falcon was in 1963/64. I liked it so much I still have a few Falcons and Skylarks in the back room, as well as new Skylark 56, Jr Falcon and Jr Skylark kits on the shelf .
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...con+56+airfoil
The findings were that it is a NACA 25014.
What is it about this airfoil that you didn't like?
Or the open wing structure?
I've used this airfoil on many airplanes and I am very happy with it. My first Falcon was in 1963/64. I liked it so much I still have a few Falcons and Skylarks in the back room, as well as new Skylark 56, Jr Falcon and Jr Skylark kits on the shelf .
12-25-2012, 06:29 AM
#49
RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
Paul (pd1), read:
Cees
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
Mike,
Why did you decide to use the NACA64A-1x (enlarged to 13.75% thick) on the open structure wing?
See your post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11341515
It's very unusual and even inadvisable for several reasons IMO.
Cees
Mike,
Why did you decide to use the NACA64A-1x (enlarged to 13.75% thick) on the open structure wing?
See your post http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=11341515
It's very unusual and even inadvisable for several reasons IMO.
Cees
12-25-2012, 07:41 AM
#50
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RE: Skylark 56 – 1966 Flashback - Build
ORIGINAL: 8178
Color Scheme
Silk and dope would be way cool! But, I think I’ll go with translucent red film with back trim and try to match the color scheme on the box.
Color Scheme
Silk and dope would be way cool! But, I think I’ll go with translucent red film with back trim and try to match the color scheme on the box.
Since it is of similar design and vintage I thought you might be interested in this scratch built [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1601652&highlight=goldberg+falcon+56+build]Falcon 56[/link] thread. The builder did beautiful work and finished it with silk & dope in the traditional color scheme.
RG