Surefire

My Feedback: (1)

Dale - You just wait till we get our 'fire breathin Nitro monsters' tuned up!

Seriously, Dale's EU1 on 8S electric really hauls the mail! It does sound like a piped two-stroke when he nails the throttle with the prop screaming at 14K!

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

It would be really interesting to see how a fully tuned NR Speed/13 compares in the same EU-1A frame with Dale's 8s setup.

My comment aside, I can just imagine how this electric setup performs on a 12x8... It really must crank out the Watts!

What was the final motor and its specs selected for the model? Any idea how many amps (or watts) the setup is pulling on 8s? Last but not least, what is the AUW with "juice" of the model. All good food for thought for my own personal education...

David

SanJoseDale

I'm not exactly certain how much current I am pulling, haven't checked since first day and not sure which prop I was using. But I believe I am aprox 60A wide open. The motor is a Scorpion 4025-10, which is 2000w, 515 kv.

all up weight is 4500g

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

I think the EU-1A is a great choice for electric conversion. Large with lots of room. I think a plug-in wing version would even be better. Jamie and I are chomping at the bit to build a pair in Blue Angels scheme. The blues just flew an air show here a couple of weeks ago. Truly inspiring!

Wish the weather forecast hadn't been so bad for Oakdale. My new P-7 was radar clocked at an upwind/downwind average of 142mph. I'm using an APC 11x9 prop and if I calculate the speed assuming no slippage of the prop that works out to 16,661 RPM's. I have not yet measured in air RPM's but static the engine turns that prop at 13,200. So the 16.6K in air number seems reasonable based on tests I have done in the past. It sure sounds like it's doing that!

One thing about electric is it won't increase RPM much in the air. So let's say it goes to 14,500 in the air with that 8 pitch prop. That calculates out, again based on zero prop slippage, to 109.8mph.

Wanna race?

Now seriously, that EU1-A looks great Dale! I'm sure it's a big leap forward from the converted P-7. Hope you can bring it to Riverside if you're going. I'd love to see it fly. But I think 2,000 watts on a 4500 gm model is a little light. We're running nearly 3,000 watts now on the 2-meters at under 5kg. Can your set-up run 10S?

SanJoseDale

Tony, no 10s

is too much for this motor, actually 8s is pushing it, but really isn't lacking for power IMO.

I can go with a larger prop, but battery consumption will certainly suffer.

I will be at Riverside, but with 4 of us in the Sprinter and 6 2M planes, I doubt I'll have room this time.

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

I think you're running the same size motor as Jamie had in his Saphir, just a higher Kv. The Saphir certainly had good power so I'm sure the EU1-A does too. I'm just wondering if there is a set-up that might give it a bit more speed. These classics really like speed for the rolling maneuvers!

Can't wait to see it go!

SanJoseDale

You are absolutely right, the good news is that this actually seems to have some rudder?
Perhaps from moving the CG aft?

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

They all have rudders, Dale. You just need to use it! But seriously, the EU1-A has more fuse side area, especially area that is somewhat flat. So it has more KE performance potential then some other classics. Imagine if you could get it up to 120-130mph!

Passport1

My Feedback: (8)

Dale-Let's do this. I was thinking about having a top speed contest on the last round of Old School at the Bash. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=670367883020671 The Eu1 looks great and what you are saying about the CG makes total sense. I remember guys always complaining about how bad they pulled to the canopy in the up lines and on knife edge. Most of the ones I saw fly had a huge amount of down thrust to help with the verticals. I dont think to many people were hip to what the CG can really do to a plane back then. You know, not many guys in masters ever did or had snaps and spins in there patterns. See you soon

80sPattern

Dale,

That is the same motor that I have in my Conquest. On a 6s system with a APC 13x10 it is turning 10,778 on the ground at nearly 1,600 watts. I am ok with the speed of my C4e as it feels graceful and smooth to me. It fits my style and the Conquest IV was designed for the YS long stroke and a slower flight speed.

The 8s solution is interesting to get a plane closer to a YS short stroke performace. I bet it fits the style of the EU1A perfectly.

I'd be curious how many amps you are pulling. I'm pulling 68 amps max. I get 8 plus minutes flight time and I'm using about 80% of the 5000 mAh battery capacity. No problem for the Advanced pattern but would be challenged to fly masters. How much flight time are you getting if you take the battery to 20%?

Your EU-1A is about the same all-up weight as my C4e. I'd be happier with a less than 9 lbs airplane, but is still great. I suspect that a ground-up designed pattern plane designed for E-Power could be build and flown at 8 1/2 lbs which would be great. (Super Chipmunk 120s)

I can't wait to see your plane in person. I hope that you and Jon and make it to the next Classic Pattern contest.

Doug

stuntflyr

Hi Dale,
So glad to hear your EU-1A is flying and the performance is to you're liking. It looks great. I'm not surprised that the wing works better at 35%, that model is a lot like a delta wing and they work well at aft cg.
I've got my Blue Angel EU-1A (same estate sale as the pink one but next to no flight time) in California now and am close to getting the radio installation finished. It has an old style Rossi and is a twin to the pink one and should be flying at some summer contests.
Sports cars and antique airplane flying commitments have me covered this spring but I promise to come out in the last half of the season. Now that yours is flying I have an additional impetus to finish and bring the EU-1A.
Chris...

SanJoseDale

Doug,

I will check the current next time I fly and let you know. As far as flight times, I can fly the Advanced sequence, at "graceful" speeds much like your Conquest
and only use 3000 mAH or less, so not putting a dent in the 5000 nAH pack. If i do each maneuver WFO, I am still under the 80% mark, 3600-3700 used.
I think the biggest drain in Advanced is 6 loops total. I think if I choose a sequence w/o these lengthy loops, I could get through Masters OK, time will tell.

I am WAY exceeding the limit of this prop, a 12x8 APC eProp has a max RPM of 12,083. I am still experimenting with different props, and may end up with a glow prop.

SanJoseDale

Tony is making my 100 mph EU1 feel inadequate

I was just playing around with the Scorpion motor calc program. Putting in all my equipment, it says I am pulling 61A, 13.5K rpm and my speed is 101 mph. I think that is all very close, with my 12x8e prop. If i put on a 11x10e prop, it should get 128 MPH, similar RPM with a little higher current draw.

Im headed to the hobby shop to pick one of these up

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Dale,

have you considered using a wood e-prop such as a VOX or a light glow wood prop such as a Falcon? Your top end speed may increase provided you don't loose too many RPM's due to design or inertial mass.

How do the tips on your APCe look after several flights?

lfinney

My Feedback: (44)

using wattmeter and doing some back to back test with E props and glow props..the glow will out perform the E props..with higher amp draw

KLXMASTER14

Congrats Dale! Sounds like you have a winner there.
-Robert

SanJoseDale

I haven't noticed any adverse wear on the prop tips, yet. I will experiment with some glow props, as I am way over the max RPM for these APC E props.

SanJoseDale

Did some flyin today and took some measurements. With a fresh battery, it is taking 71 A, with the 12x8 prop. I did a few advanced sequences and used 3600 mAH each time, doing all maneuvers WFO.

I tried an 11x10 prop. It made the plane faster for sure, but I could feel the lack of thrust compared to the 12x8. Wanted to see how it compared so went up against Jon Bruml's beautiful Phoenix 8, which has the New YS Classic 61 and pipe. The EU1 was faster! Later I went up when Jon Carter was flying his new Tipo, with an original YS short stroke and I put the 12x8 back on. This time we were about on par. I think the 12x8 is the best overall prop for me.

I still have an issue with the dihedral. The original cores for this plane, had the dihedral angle cut into the foam blocks. The cores that came from RC Aiir did not have any dihedral angle cut in them and I could not find what the proper angle was, anywhere, so had to make a guess. My guess wasn't good, I need more as I have a good amount of adverse roll coupling. I'm going to have to cut a slot in the top center of the wing, squirt some epoxy and weight It down to add more. I expect this will take a few tries to get right, but I think it will be worth it. The mix I have in now has some unintended effects.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Great update Dale. Good to hear the APCe prop tips are not splitting. At 71A you are seriously cranking that motor - it's at over 2100 W WOT!

Is the 11x10 prop you tried also an APCe? It'd be interesting to compare with some wood e-props or glow props. I suspect they'll pull even better.

David

SanJoseDale

Only tried apc e props so far.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Dale,

Now that you have flown your EU-1Ae extensively I was wondering if you got a chance to try some 11x10 wood props (electric or glow) on your 8s setup?

I seem to recall you were going to build another couple of them with a 10s setup, yes?

David

SanJoseDale

David,

I never tried any wood props, only the APE E type. 12x8 -12x10 seems to work the best.

I am in the process of building another, with quite a few changes. For the motor, I'm going with a little less KV but on 10S, this will be a Neu inrunner. Im looking for longer flight times, in order to fly Masters sequence. Instead of cutting the top of the fuse for a hatch, we are making the middle of the wing an open bay, with a hatch in the belly pan, so the battery will load from the bottom. also making plug in stabs. I did quite a bit of dihedral changes to the current one to get that right, it needed more than the plans indicated for best knife edge flight.

Dale

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Dale,

great news. It'll be interesting to see how this new setup and layout compares to your current one.

Are you actually needing to mount the cells about the CG - that far back? I'm surprised the model is balancing with the LiPo's back there and little up front other than the motor/ESC.

I look forward to seeing your layout.

David

time907356

Dale,
I've got an EU1-A coming from RCaiir too, and I'm interested in the dihedral spec. you ended up with. I emailed Don, whether it would have it cut in or not, and am awaiting his reply. I recall my original Aero Composities EU1 rolling out of KE on both sides, so too much, although by just a little.
I'll also tell you that the pitch-to-canopy issue is one that goes back to the original design. Many solutions have been offered, and I don't know if I've heard anything difinitive to solve it. Huge downthrusts, CG's way back, reflex control surfaces, moving the stab., etc. I used the latter method, lowering the stab by 1/2", and placing a 1/2" block under the stab join line to set the anhedral. I didn't notice the pitch tendency, but it was a while ago, and this was my first pattern plane.
I wonder what you power system adds to the plane in weight; it seems your frame is very light. Excellent work, and a beautiful bird!!

SanJoseDale

I moved the CG why back, to 36% MAC, it just barely sits on the main gear. That seemed to cure about 90% of the canopy pull. I tried thrust and incidence changes, with little effect. It seems to fly fine at this point. The dihedral was NOT set in the cores from Don. His suggestion was to build with the top of that panels on a flat surface. The new wings are being build by Dave Snow (not foam), as a one piece wing. The dihedral angle is 1.333 inches, measured from the root center line to the tip center line, on each panel, which is more than where I started.