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Classic Pattern Reproduction Project Review

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Classic Pattern Reproduction Project Review

Old 09-14-2014, 08:52 AM
  #101  
richard2610
 
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Greetings from Indonesia,

Enjoy your threat Berusty, it has been a great reading.
May I share this via my tweet?

Richard

Last edited by richard2610; 09-14-2014 at 08:59 AM. Reason: detached pics
Old 09-15-2014, 03:37 AM
  #102  
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Classic sharing is both encouraged and appreciated...Tweet away!!!!

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Old 09-15-2014, 03:39 AM
  #103  
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Classic Memories: American Aircraft Modeler

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Old 09-16-2014, 04:51 AM
  #104  
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Classic EU-1 and EU-1A

Dean Koger was a top pilot during the 70's and as a member of the USAF lived in both Ohio and my home town of Omaha. Wayne Ulery lived in Ohio and teamed up with Dean with the super cool EU-1 that competed in the 1977 Tournament of Champions. Model Airplane news offered a construction article of the EU-1 that I attempted in high school and then I woke up one day and discovered girls...

The EU-1A was kitted by Dave Scully at Aero Composites and offered a sleeker airplane that after one raised the stab 1/4" was pretty nifty. Five of us built EU-1As for the 1981 AMA Nats in Lincoln, NE but my model was finished and sold without me flying because yes...girls. It was between my freshmen and sophomore year of college.

I have an original Aero Composites kit in Dave Guerin's workshop as maybe our last project in our series.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Last edited by BERUSTY; 09-16-2014 at 07:25 AM.
Old 09-16-2014, 06:33 AM
  #105  
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I also have an original EU-1A kit I plan to build one day. It certainly is larger than your typical pattern ship. Will a hot 60 be enough for it or would a 90 (Rossi 90) be better?
Old 09-16-2014, 07:24 AM
  #106  
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EU-1A horsepower requirements?

I plan on using a YS or Rossi .61 rear exhaust on my model. Modern components and construction processes may help one construct the model a little lighter.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Old 09-16-2014, 08:09 AM
  #107  
Quikturn
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Rear exhaust would definitely look better. I have a new Rossi 61 RE 3+2 and a used Rossi 61 RE. Do you know how much of a performance difference there is between the two?
Old 09-16-2014, 08:18 AM
  #108  
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Rossi performance differnce? I have no idea.

Rusty
Old 09-17-2014, 04:35 AM
  #109  
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Classic Engines

Here is a photo montage of some cool classic era engines.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Old 09-17-2014, 05:58 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Quikturn
Rear exhaust would definitely look better. I have a new Rossi 61 RE 3+2 and a used Rossi 61 RE. Do you know how much of a performance difference there is between the two?
About .25 BHP difference or 500-1000 RPM. The new NovaRossi Speed/13 should be another ~.25 BHP stronger and comparable to the new YS Classic. Roughly, on an APC 11x7:

Rossi 3 port RE: ~14,100 RPM (10-11 mm carb)
Rossi 5 port RE: ~14,600-15,000 RPM (10 mm carb)
NovaRossi 4 port Speed/13: 15,200 RPM (9 mm carb)
NovaRossi 4 port Speed/13: Unknown (10 mm carb)
YS 61R Classic: Still gathering figures (11 mm carb)

David
Old 09-17-2014, 06:23 AM
  #111  
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A few that I have collect and some that I have flown.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:14 AM
  #112  
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Great collection computermonkey...love the Enya XL and the ST X60 brings back lots of memories. Thanks!

Rusty
Old 09-17-2014, 07:19 AM
  #113  
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Thanks, these engines I can not bring myself to run.
Old 09-17-2014, 08:33 AM
  #114  
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That looks like the dynamix carb on the Webra Race rear. A very interesting carb....

Just curious Dave, why use the 11x7 on any of these? Most of these engines work truly great on higher load and stretched pipe. Lower Rs, less fuel consumption and less wear and tear, more prop, same great handling. Calibration??
Old 09-17-2014, 08:48 AM
  #115  
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Here is a OS 61 FSR turning a APC 11x10
Old 09-17-2014, 04:57 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by MTK
That looks like the dynamix carb on the Webra Race rear. A very interesting carb....

Just curious Dave, why use the 11x7 on any of these? Most of these engines work truly great on higher load and stretched pipe. Lower Rs, less fuel consumption and less wear and tear, more prop, same great handling. Calibration??
Hey Matt,

the 11x7 is not necessarily a prop of choice for flying. It is merely a reference prop that was used back in the 70's on lower powered 60's and it carried through into the 80's on the short stroke 61's. Later, as you know, folks started using step pitches as the engines became more powerful with 7.50 and 7.75" pitches being used. Otherwise, all you suggest holds true although for ballistic pattern, the short strokes unload more easily on lower pitched props and deliver higher horizontal speeds while sacrificing lugging power in up-lines.

I was actually rather surprised how "choked" the Speed/13 performed on higher load props and a standard NR pipe setup (i.e., un-lengthened). While high timed it is technically a long stroke engine and I expected it to do better on 11x10 and 11x11 props but it really seemed quite happy really hauling freight on light wood 11x8 props. But again, I emphasize this was all on a stock pipe setup which has been shown to be "short" for the larger props - as expected. In some conditions, it can perform better on a longer pipe even on the smaller props (i.e., 11x7) but I have yet to experiment with that myself. I just say this based on comments from Robert Fish in his recent installation in an EU-1A where he setup the engine with a longer than stock pipe arrangement.

Cheers, David
Old 09-17-2014, 05:40 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by doxilia
About .25 BHP difference or 500-1000 RPM. The new NovaRossi Speed/13 should be another ~.25 BHP stronger and comparable to the new YS Classic. Roughly, on an APC 11x7:

Rossi 3 port RE: ~14,100 RPM (10-11 mm carb)
Rossi 5 port RE: ~14,600-15,000 RPM (10 mm carb)
NovaRossi 4 port Speed/13: 15,200 RPM (9 mm carb)
NovaRossi 4 port Speed/13: Unknown (10 mm carb)
YS 61R Classic: Still gathering figures (11 mm carb)

David
Thanks for the info David. I knew someone had to know.

Didnt realize the Novarossi speed/13 was even more powerful. Should have bought one when they were selling the combo for $200 shipped.

Looks of cool engines shown here. I'll have to post some when I get home.

Joe
Old 09-17-2014, 06:39 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Quikturn
Thanks for the info David. I knew someone had to know.

Didnt realize the Novarossi speed/13 was even more powerful. Should have bought one when they were selling the combo for $200 shipped.

Joe
Joe,

well, you know how it is: give humans 30 years to improve anything and they'll make it bigger, stronger, faster... ;-)

Actually, if you take a look inside a NR Speed/13, it becomes immediately apparent why it is more than 1/2 BHP stronger than the original vintage Rossi 3 port. Everything is smooth and the assymetric crankshaft has a special machined "delivery cone" in the counterweight that "injects" fuel into the cylinder's transfer and boost ports. These, in turn, are coated with a Teflon like material which maximizes the flow of fuel into the combustion chamber. The materials and balance are also something to be appreciated - the piston, sleeve, conrod and particularly the design of the intake and exhaust ports with their optimized angles makes the whole lot push this modern RE classic pattern engine squarely into the "beast" category. While the 3-port Rossi delivers in the range of 1.8 - 1.9 BHP, the evolved 3+2 Rossi surpassed the 2 BHP benchmark. 20 years later, Mr. Rossi managed to re-design his engine yet again to produce an engine that approaches 2.5 BHP of raw power.

Opening the throttle on the new Speed/13 is actually somewhat frightening when propped lightly. You get the sense that the the engine is going to rip apart! ...It makes you appreciate the 8 socket head bolts on that combustion chamber cylinder head.

Incidentally, all three of these engines are designs courtesy of the one and only Cesare Rossi.

David

Last edited by doxilia; 09-17-2014 at 06:42 PM.
Old 09-18-2014, 12:36 AM
  #119  
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Hi David.
I haven't checked this forum lately. You are the only person that seems intrested in this project.
I have an old Tower Hobbies Kaos 40 ARF, 7 years old and still flyable that I would use as a starting point. I would be using a Stihl 64 CC Motor That would require a 8.5" wide firewall to conceal the carburator. I have tried drawing a fuselage side rib and then scaling it smaller for each rib but you run into problems because the leading edge radius shrinks too much. I need to keep the leading edge radius constant, (.6875) or whats commonly called 1/4 round. The wing panel needs to have a 1" diameter wing tube hole drawn on each rib at the CG. The main spars need to be 1/4" X 1/2" centered above and below the wing tube hole. The ailerons are the easiest part once you have a true center line. I want to keep them as small as possible so as not to induce flutter. This would be a high speed airplane, not a 3D airplane with large ailerons.
Still interested?
Larry
Old 09-18-2014, 12:36 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by BERUSTY
Magic was a success for the Prettner's!

The model had a variable pitch prop, enclosed pipe, spoilers/flaps... My Calypso is a very fine model that is very simple and fun to fly with the Super Tigre S-61 and an APC 11 x 9 prop. I particularly like the speed brakes on the landing gear which are quite effective and idiot proof.

I think the pilot and dual cockpit also enhances the flight capabilities. 8)

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Rusty,

Can you share details of how you attached the air brakes? I want to try then on my Conquest IVe.

thanks,

Doug
Old 09-18-2014, 03:05 AM
  #121  
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Hmmm let's trying this again.
I was surprised how the OS 61 FSR turned a 11x10 on 0% nitro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6u6...QFJECpJ9X6UJ6g
Old 09-18-2014, 04:07 AM
  #122  
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Airbrakes attached to retract legs: Calypso WC Reproduction details

Pictures provide the details. When retracts are lowered drag is provided. They also work on down lines, spin entry and I played with connecting to throttle stick to automatically lower gear at low throttle...used an extra swith to turn this "condition on".

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Last edited by BERUSTY; 09-18-2014 at 04:11 AM.
Old 09-18-2014, 07:15 AM
  #123  
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Rusty,

Last photo....a really serious flying site. Nothing here in the NE that I've experienced, compares.
Old 09-18-2014, 09:47 AM
  #124  
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Classic Flying Fields: Fox Valley Aero Club St. Charles, Illinois (about 30 miles west of Chicago)

The Fox Valley Aero Club is my home field and one of my top 3 places I have ever flown. Great group of modelers and the community is home to Robart manufacturing. The field features a 800' x 50' asphalt surface with similar manicured grass surrounding. A full scale Piper Cub could do a touch and go with ease... (shhhhh!) We have have a covered structure, soda machine, wi-fi and a camera to check out the activity 24/7. The link is http://www.foxvalleyaero.com/

You could watch me fly!

Official website info:

Flying Site

The FVAC flying field is located at 3821 Karl Madsen Drive in St. Charles, IL. (GPS Coordinates are 41.9019444444444 , -88.375) We feature an 800 foot by 50 foot paved runway with a paved taxiway and pit area. We have an area dedicated for helicopters. We also have a covered pavilion with electricity. Grass areas receive a regular program of fertilization and mowing. The field is open to members for flying from sunrise to sunset, 365 days a year. Check out the live camera feed of our field.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:55 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by BERUSTY
Airbrakes attached to retract legs: Calypso WC Reproduction details

Pictures provide the details. When retracts are lowered drag is provided. They also work on down lines, spin entry and I played with connecting to throttle stick to automatically lower gear at low throttle...used an extra swith to turn this "condition on".

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Rusty,

Thank you so much for the pictures, very helpful. The Conquest IVe (Electric) with a 13x10 apc freewheeling up front just does not slow down and landings are difficult. I am trying solve that problem.

I have a couple of details questions:

1.) Did you wrap the strap all the way around the strut so that the bolt goes thru two metal holes or did you cut the strap and the bolt only goes thru one metal hole?
2.) It looks like you only soldered the top stap, is that correct?
3.) Did you use a light weight plastic for the brake itself?
4.) Is Four Pi still in business? I called to order the straps and got a generic machine.

Thanks!

Doug


Thanks,

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