ewspears

My Feedback: (12)

Hi,
I don't think I'm alone in thinking the the Sleek Pattern Planes of the 1978 to 1992 era were a joy to fly or to watch. A Hanno, YS AR, or Rossi with enclosed tuned pipe and retracts. FAST - Manouverable & Stable.
I'd like to see a class that would allow the following to compete; Aurora, Atlanta, Bootlegger, Illusion, LA-1, Eclipse, EU1A, PA2,
Summit 60 and etc.

RETRACTS---TUNED PIPE----100+MPH----OH YEAAAAAA!!!!!!!

Rcpilot32-RCU

I would have to agree with you on this!!!!!! It sounds like fun flying at mach 2 and change while performing 300' loops and your hair on fire. Wow! What a rush that would be. Lets see if we can make it happen. I know I would start flying pattern if the planes mentioned above would be allowed to compete in their own class. Who should we approach to make this happen?

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

I agree, though I find it amusing that all but 3 of the airplanes on your list were designed for 'turnaround' pattern (Bootlegger, Illusion and EU1-A). The EU1-A always needed more power than was available at the time anyway.
Maybe just a post-1975 design class for .60 sized airplanes. The Arrow is my personal favorite and one of the fastest pattern ships I ever flew.
Pattern Rules!!
-Will B.

ChuckAuger

My Feedback: (12)

There was some interest shown in a thread "Old 2 Stroke Pattern Fun" here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...rn+Association

A few guys seem to share your belief that good ol' piped .61's with retracts is still a ball to fly..

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Sorry flywilly, but those three you mentioned as being designed for turnaround were not. Steve Helm's Bootlegger was designed in 1980 or 81, he made the 1983 USA team with a Bootlegger, the last year of "old Style" F3A. The Illusion was also designed in 82, DB flew it in the 1983 World Champs, though I believe he made the 83 team with a Tiporare. The EU1 was flown in the 1977 World Champs in Springfield, and the EU1-A was kitted by Dave Scully, I believe, by 1980.

All of these were used in turnaround, but they all pre-date it.

LaCerne

My Feedback: (16)

This sounds like fun to me. Perhaps SPA would be willing to create a class for "Pattern Bombs". The mid to late 80's were the best time for pattern in my opinion! I'd love to find an old UFO, or Dirty Birdy, and do it up right!

cd3217

My Feedback: (3)

Yep,
something just doesn't sound right when you have a ys 4 stroke on an airplane that looks like it oughta go fast.... sex appeal I guess. I have a 4 stroke Zen 120 that I'm getting ready to try cause I hear that the new pattern birds fly so well. That still doesn't quite make me want to get rid of all the plans I've been collecting.....mach 1, compensator, dirty birdy, thunder panzer, eyeball, el gringo, miss norway mk2..... Nor the 23 year old atlas in the attic with the HP Gold Cup, pipe and retracts.....haha....
Can't wait to read more.... I'm remembering ..... piped 61's screaming straight lines, slow rolls and nice curves.....yeah

not that I'm knocking 2 meter or its pilots, but the old stuff sure had sex-appeal....

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hey Tony,
Yes, of course. I meant the 3 designs that predated 'turnaround'
were the Bootlegger, EU1 and Illusion. I had a Bootlegger which flew well. I owned an EU1 kit but everytimeI'd look at that HUGE fiberglass fuselage and that itty bitty .61 that was supposed to power it I'd put it back in the box. I eventually sold it.
As for most of the other designs - they're all pretty fast, too. After the '85 worlds when fast and far out flying became the 'norm' the original intent of aresti style flying seemd to be lost.
Your Challenge, Wolgang's Joker and a few others seemed better suited for the 'intent' of the rules (I built both of them). Then I flew Dave Von Linsowe's Mistress which was much faster.
The 2 meter planes really fly great, but I still like the old designs!
Happy Flying

EU1a

My Feedback: (1)

I'd pay good money for 2x2 EU-1a.

ramcfarland

My Feedback: (44)

Hello ew,rcpilot32rcu,flywilly,chuckAuger,TonyF-RCU,LaCerne,cd3217,flywilliy&EU1a........
I posted the SPA thread and you guys got it right lets start with a petition to SPA and go from there!!! The photo attached shows "Rebel," who loves the older style rocket ships-

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Hi everyone,

I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents and let you know I agree with your idea of petitioning the SPA to allow PIPES and RETRACTS. While I really like the "really old" planes (Orion/Taurus/Beachcomber/Crusader) I would jump right into SPA if they would allow a Phoenix 8 w/pipe & retracts. Those memories of watching everybody going Mach 1 and pulling into a figure M are just priceless... and you just can't get that feeling w/a 4 stroke and the gear down. I never did figure out why 4 strokes were allowed on the SPA birds when they weren't available when they were designed (Selective rules??). At any rate, I am solidly behind a "Missile" class. That would include the EU1s,Auroras,UFOs,Tipos,Magics, and others that were flown prior to 1984 w/Pipes and retracts. I would love to see it go back to the old "pattern circuit" here in the Carolinas and Virginia. Remember when there used to be a contest almost every weekend in the summer between NC/VA/MD/and SC? Now there were only 3 in the entire state of NC this year !!! This might just help bring pattern back.

Just an opinion....I think others would agree...


Deadstik...[8D]

ramcfarland

My Feedback: (44)

Yes an 80's style pattern competition would and COULD be a blast! What can we all do to make this happen in 04? I might add there seems to be promising interest in having SPA contests in the MID Atlantic region and why not "add" another for the 1980's Pattern aircraft that flew so well and at way less expense-- which might interest potential participants.

BevoHoward

I know I would be very pleased if a new class were created. Maybe those of us here in the Mid Atlantic Region could work together to get something organized. I'm about 90% finished with my Tipo. (the WK kit) I built it around a piped ST Bluehead, and retracts.
TonyF: Just some confusion here on my part. I thought the Bootlegger came out before 1980. I remember Steve's tent was next to ours, and he was flying his Bootlegger. If I'm not mistaken you were flying a P6. It has been so long maybe my memory is fading.

BevoHoward

Something got goofed up. I was refering to the 78 Nats in Lake Charles where I remember the Bootlegger

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Last year my father ran a simple aerobatics event in his club partially to experiment, partially to drum up interest in competition. Anyway, maybe that could be done here. If you wait for SPA to come out with a new class or the like, you might be waiting a long time... If somebody were to approach their club and get a day or a weekend where they could use the field, advertise it here as an old style unofficial club event or something similar, call it an "Old School Pattern Fun Fly" or something... Everybody bring their 70's-80's missles and have a good time. If the turn out is good... go to SPA with it, and maybe they'll add a class!

Just and idea... yeah, I know it's much easier to 'type and run'....

spbyrum

Gentlemen

Let me suggest you join SPA and become involved. A $20 check made out to SPA and sent to me will accomplish this.

Then you can get involved in the process of helping SPA go forward. We hear continually from guys who would join if . . . . . No one steps up to the plate. If you want to help make changes within an organization, you need to be a member to be heard.

In several areas of the country, an alternative to "pure" SPA is being tried. Contests have been successful flying the SPA format with whatever plane each pilot brings. Either a bonus for an SPA approved plane or a penalty for one not approved is used to level the field. This has worked for several years in the mid-west and was just tried in the Norfolk area.

Please do remember that one of the reasons we have db levels and have worked for many years to quiet pattern planes is to protect our flying sites. For this reason, SPA included up to .91 4 strokes a number of years ago. The hotrods may have been great fun, but, as a rule, they were also pretty loud.

Join us and join the fun.

Steve Byrum
Secretary-Treasure SPA

ewspears

My Feedback: (12)

Just the thought of an Aurora or Bootlegger with a 91 4stroke makes me sick!!![&o]

Should have a Rossi or YS turning a Rev-Up or DW 11X7 at 15 to 15.5K RPM!!!

lems

My Feedback: (20)

I have a 2M designed pattern ship called a NOVA with a YS 140L and an APC 15.5 x 12. It is a thin fuselage design from Canada and was popular in the late 90s. Yesterday, I was in the air at the same time as a EUA1 with an OS 61 RF-P. Both of us were flying the current sportsman pattern. Most observers think I fly the pattern a little too slowly, but I was flying at almost the very same speed as the EUA1. The 2M ships will go fast, I think they look slower because of their size. I never fire wall the YS in level flight, because the speed is astonishing.

I believe a 60 size pattern plane with a 60 size 2 stroke should be the norm for the lower classes. Most of the current top pilots started on just such planes and speak of them fondly. I am currently refurbishing a 60 size Jekyll, and would like to see retracts allowed in Sportsman. It is just too traumatic a financial event to plant a 2M plane, and the more time a spend practicing, the better the odds. Just my 2 cents.

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Steve do you take paypal? Thanks, Mike

spbyrum

Sorry, we're not set up for PayPal. A check works fine. I test fly them all to be sure they land without bouncing.

Again, the reason for the 4 stokes is noise. One site we fly at is along the Clinch River in Knoxville, TN. A developer has bought the river front property and is in the process of building 250-500k homes. We wouldn't last long flying Rossis and Hannos turning 15k in a 130mph rocket.

I have a Curare with an OS91 in the nose. I'm still making friends with it, but it does just fine with the thrust of a bigger prop generated at lower rpm. There does seem to be a lower limit to how slow it wants to fly, but I'm not sure of that yet. I also flew an Atlas several years ago with a Saito 91. That was a very nice combination with almost unlimited vertical. It is common practice to use a taildragger configuration to help offset the weight of the 4c. This is allowable within the rules.

We've got a couple guys who experimented with YS61s. They were REALLY FAST, but wouldn't idle without the pipe. A dynathrust muffler helped some, but reliability was a problem.

astropuppy

My Feedback: (23)

spbyrum,

As a SPA member in good standing. I say don't accept money of any kind from that MUPS53 guy. Those Chicago boys are big time trouble for SPA. Many years ago, I (kind of) knew him and saw him fly many times. If he has anything left, he'll give Bruce a run for his money. At the very least outlaw MACH I's. From what I remember MUPS53 can point on a string from horizon to horizon, without flinching. <grin> Just kidding Mike.

Mike
SPA 178

Good thing he doesn't remember me, huh!

SPA - Simple Pattern Airplane

Read Cheap!

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Back in the day we had a tough group in Chicago. It sure was a good time. The SPA is pretty cool but to be honest I'm pretty involved with 2 meter stuff right now. I'm still going to join the SPA with the hope of seeing it expand into the midwest someday.
Here's a picture of my pattern plane. I don't think it qualifies! Mike
Opps I should have mentioned that I lost this plane a little while ago but I have another one coming.

astropuppy

My Feedback: (23)

Mike,

That sure is a pretty bird. Sorry you lost it. What's this winters project?

In your spare time you should build a Daddy Rabbit. See attached.

mups53

My Feedback: (41)

Wow nice Daddy Rabbit. Man it brings back such great memories for me. I remember going to the contests in Huntsville and Nashville in the mid 70's. Jim Whittley flying wow. Jim had the best landings I have ever seen. He also told the best story's. We would meet up with guys Doc Edwards, Ron Chidgey, Don Coleman and they were better than the nats. Great times like I said.
I have another Temptation 2 meter already to go for next spring and I'm building my 1st IMAC plane. It's a CA 31% Extra 300L.
Hope you have fun with the Daddy Rabbit. In time I hope to have a vintage job. I had so many favorites back then but the best for me was the Dirty Birdies and the Mach's 1 and 3.
Mike

astropuppy

My Feedback: (23)

Mike, thanks for the kind words. Never flew a Dirty Birdi but have flown several Mach 1's. I have to tell you and couple SPA members will agree with me. A 7 lbs Daddy Rabbit with an OS 91 (4 stroker) will make a believer out of you. I don't think it rolls as well as a Mach I or the (2 stroke) Kirkland A6 I had. The trade off - in my eyes - is you give up a little on the rolls and gain a whole bunch everywhere else. It's definitely a keeper.

Remember the early 70's, before tuned pipes or mufflers, when pattern planes used only an exhaust baffle for idle. My guess is the pictured rabbit is every bit as fast as a Webra (Blackhead) powered Mach 1. Difference is with the 4 stroke I can make the airplane really tiny at the top of "Figure M's". You get better scores when the Judges see a smaller plane. <grin>

In case you haven't figured it out, I love vintage pattern designs; Not vintage equipment. There is no way I'd have anything to do with the old radios, retracts or engines. With one exception: I'd sure like to have a set of metal open face Proline Gimbals in my Futaba.