Bridi ESCAPE new build. any tricks or tips would be lovely !
01-25-2016, 10:00 AM
#126
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Dave, have you played with larger props and stretched pipe on this mill? I mean, is it capable?
In the 80's we ran the Rossis at around 11k with stretched pipes and 12x12, 13x10 props and 15%N-20%O. More than enough for the 9 pounders of the day, quiet, and terrific gas milage. Some of us used soft mounts but not everyone. It took time to get used to the different sound.
At some point I will build the larger Arrow and it's either the YS or the NR.
In the 80's we ran the Rossis at around 11k with stretched pipes and 12x12, 13x10 props and 15%N-20%O. More than enough for the 9 pounders of the day, quiet, and terrific gas milage. Some of us used soft mounts but not everyone. It took time to get used to the different sound.
At some point I will build the larger Arrow and it's either the YS or the NR.
no no not really. For the purposes of th review I wanted to limit the variables so that I could report and contrast based on some standard. I choose to leave the exhaust factory stock (headers are set for conservative yet still impressive performance) as well as using the recommended fuel (mix wise) and plug.
I suspect that because of its more recent "speed" heritage and high exhaust timing, the engine probably won't be quite as capable as the older Rossi design. I ran it on an 11x10 and a 12x6 and while it was "ok" it certainly seemed like it was better suited and happier turning an 11x8 light prop. It would probably even do its thing happily on a 10x9, 10x10 but not very useful for our application. At 14K-15.5K, it seems to be in its element. The 12x6 wasn't too impressive but I can't quite remember the figures (I'd have to check my article) so I imagine heavier loads would be no better.
If you want to turn a large prop, I suspect the "Classic" (or certainly an AR) will be a better candidate. Although, admittedly, I don't own one (of the new "Classics").
Didnt you sell an AR to Shawn (Speedracerntrixie) for his Dalotel?
David
PS by the larger Arrow, are you referring to the Arrow 800 with fully enclosed pipe (otherwise also referred to as the Granat)?
01-25-2016, 03:00 PM
#127
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Matt,
no no not really. For the purposes of th review I wanted to limit the variables so that I could report and contrast based on some standard. I choose to leave the exhaust factory stock (headers are set for conservative yet still impressive performance) as well as using the recommended fuel (mix wise) and plug.
I suspect that because of its more recent "speed" heritage and high exhaust timing, the engine probably won't be quite as capable as the older Rossi design. I ran it on an 11x10 and a 12x6 and while it was "ok" it certainly seemed like it was better suited and happier turning an 11x8 light prop. It would probably even do its thing happily on a 10x9, 10x10 but not very useful for our application. At 14K-15.5K, it seems to be in its element. The 12x6 wasn't too impressive but I can't quite remember the figures (I'd have to check my article) so I imagine heavier loads would be no better.
If you want to turn a large prop, I suspect the "Classic" (or certainly an AR) will be a better candidate. Although, admittedly, I don't own one (of the new "Classics").
Didnt you sell an AR to Shawn (Speedracerntrixie) for his Dalotel?
David
PS by the larger Arrow, are you referring to the Arrow 800 with fully enclosed pipe (otherwise also referred to as the Granat)?
no no not really. For the purposes of th review I wanted to limit the variables so that I could report and contrast based on some standard. I choose to leave the exhaust factory stock (headers are set for conservative yet still impressive performance) as well as using the recommended fuel (mix wise) and plug.
I suspect that because of its more recent "speed" heritage and high exhaust timing, the engine probably won't be quite as capable as the older Rossi design. I ran it on an 11x10 and a 12x6 and while it was "ok" it certainly seemed like it was better suited and happier turning an 11x8 light prop. It would probably even do its thing happily on a 10x9, 10x10 but not very useful for our application. At 14K-15.5K, it seems to be in its element. The 12x6 wasn't too impressive but I can't quite remember the figures (I'd have to check my article) so I imagine heavier loads would be no better.
If you want to turn a large prop, I suspect the "Classic" (or certainly an AR) will be a better candidate. Although, admittedly, I don't own one (of the new "Classics").
Didnt you sell an AR to Shawn (Speedracerntrixie) for his Dalotel?
David
PS by the larger Arrow, are you referring to the Arrow 800 with fully enclosed pipe (otherwise also referred to as the Granat)?
01-26-2016, 11:22 AM
#128
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Matt,
well interesting thing... I ended up buying the unfinished Dalotel and engine from Shawn as he was moving and needed to part with it. One day I'll finish it up and put it in the air. I actually have been contemplating running it on e-power but we'll see how it turns out on the day.
David
well interesting thing... I ended up buying the unfinished Dalotel and engine from Shawn as he was moving and needed to part with it. One day I'll finish it up and put it in the air. I actually have been contemplating running it on e-power but we'll see how it turns out on the day.
David
01-29-2016, 08:34 AM
#129
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well good news, bad news.
good news is I flew her. its a rocket and flys nicely. other good news is me and my brother just scored a MK blue angel for me and a unidentified pattern ship for him. they said its a compensator but its hard to tell. both are rtf and fairly nice.
bad news is my escape is so damn heavy Im bending landing gear. I can easily save 2 lbs by making new elevators and rudder out of something lighter and covering them, and doing that I can take out a lot of nose lead I have. but ill still be way heavy. other option is to remove all the paint and cover the plane. I need to think about it some more. maybe just fly it and build another nicer one next year. photobucket is down right now so ill get a few pics soon
good news is I flew her. its a rocket and flys nicely. other good news is me and my brother just scored a MK blue angel for me and a unidentified pattern ship for him. they said its a compensator but its hard to tell. both are rtf and fairly nice.
bad news is my escape is so damn heavy Im bending landing gear. I can easily save 2 lbs by making new elevators and rudder out of something lighter and covering them, and doing that I can take out a lot of nose lead I have. but ill still be way heavy. other option is to remove all the paint and cover the plane. I need to think about it some more. maybe just fly it and build another nicer one next year. photobucket is down right now so ill get a few pics soon
01-29-2016, 08:54 AM
#132
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Landing gear struts are 5/32"? you could go to 3/16" - doesn't solve the weight issue, but will reduce the bending problem. It was a popular (maybe necessary) upgrade for many of the 11lb (or more) EU1-As that I competed against 35 years ago; most were flying from grass fields, too.
There is also the option of using your ailerons as flaps if your radio has the capability to do so.
There is also the option of using your ailerons as flaps if your radio has the capability to do so.
01-29-2016, 11:17 AM
#133
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I'm going to get robostruts. That should take care of the gear. I can get a few pounds of weight off with out starting over with a few mods. I might try before getting real drastic.
01-29-2016, 11:51 AM
#134
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10 pounds, 60 ounces. That's a lot heavier than I expected. Back in the day these were coming in at 10 1/2 pounds after many mods. A few, very few, were a little less.
At the beginning of your thread some long timers had some advice you may want to heed on a second if you do decide. On finishing, I wouldnt use that grey balsa filler. That stuff is very heavy. Straight glasswork would have been lighter and doped silkspan even lighter. Plastic film would have been the lightest. Good luck with it.
At the beginning of your thread some long timers had some advice you may want to heed on a second if you do decide. On finishing, I wouldnt use that grey balsa filler. That stuff is very heavy. Straight glasswork would have been lighter and doped silkspan even lighter. Plastic film would have been the lightest. Good luck with it.
01-29-2016, 12:34 PM
#135
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How many of those 13.75 lbs are lead? I assume whatever battery you are using is all the way up front? What about servos, up front too?
That is a lot of weight. I can't imagine how it got up there but this model can be built to 8.5 lbs all up. Probably even 8 lbs dry with some light cores and 1/32" skins. Kevin's Deception is 7.5 lbs dry and it's a model that's no smaller than this one and it's all in paint. Granted, he's using a CF pipe and a YS which is ~120g lighter than the NR. Still, you need that NR weight up front so nothing wrong with that. Probably just too much dense & thick wood.
That said, congratulations on the maiden and glad to hear you're enjoying her
David
That is a lot of weight. I can't imagine how it got up there but this model can be built to 8.5 lbs all up. Probably even 8 lbs dry with some light cores and 1/32" skins. Kevin's Deception is 7.5 lbs dry and it's a model that's no smaller than this one and it's all in paint. Granted, he's using a CF pipe and a YS which is ~120g lighter than the NR. Still, you need that NR weight up front so nothing wrong with that. Probably just too much dense & thick wood.
That said, congratulations on the maiden and glad to hear you're enjoying her
David
01-29-2016, 01:03 PM
#136
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I have the battery under the tank plus 25oz of lead. I can get rid of the weight if I build light elevators and rudder and maybe move the engine foreword an inch. Then I'll be 11ish. That's the first plan before getting crazy and stripping or building new. It was a fun build and my first painted plane. I'm happy it flies.
01-30-2016, 03:25 PM
#138
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my blue angel 40 and brothers plane we just got. they said the red one is a southern rc compensator but I'm not sure it is. both should be fun with a little cleaning they will fly as is
02-20-2016, 12:02 PM
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I just stripped the escape down to the bare wood. Everything on the scale is 9 1/4 lbs. So I'll be still almost 11 once finished. Really don't know if I'm going to finish this plane again. It's still going to be heavy. Might just restore my blue Angel now. I don't know how you guys get a plane that's pounds lighter. My wood wasn't that heavy and I'll built it box stock and not over built
02-21-2016, 02:57 AM
#146
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I think Jim's idea is a must on this bird. Appearances aside, I have the feeling the wing is too heavy as it is given the reported weights. Should be 26-28 oz max but it's probably in the mid 30's. The 1/2" thick ribs will deliver the numbers. 10 oz is substantial on a wing that ought to be light for good performance. The stab could probably receive a reduced but similar approach.
It appears that the fuse top could also receive another good dose of sanding. I don't think I'm seeing any exposed tristock. It really just needs to grip sufficiently the top and sides to avoid it falling apart. Everything else is dead weight and a "boxy" look. I'd hit it with a sand bar and "shoe shine" it with 400 before covering. Likewise on the tail boom bottom if doable. Hollow out any unneeded wood in the front top block under the header.
Nice job on the stripping!
David
It appears that the fuse top could also receive another good dose of sanding. I don't think I'm seeing any exposed tristock. It really just needs to grip sufficiently the top and sides to avoid it falling apart. Everything else is dead weight and a "boxy" look. I'd hit it with a sand bar and "shoe shine" it with 400 before covering. Likewise on the tail boom bottom if doable. Hollow out any unneeded wood in the front top block under the header.
Nice job on the stripping!
David
Last edited by doxilia; 02-21-2016 at 03:00 AM.
02-21-2016, 06:51 AM
#147
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Nappy,
No pics of the process but I will take and supply measurements if it would help.
After the wing cores were sheeted I drew rib bays and then attacked the wing with my Dremel sanding drum; went all the way through the wing in most of the bays. Left the "ribs" 3/8" wide, look sorta like wide cap strips.
I didn't do any cut outs in the stab but did sand the sheets really well--could have used 1/32" sheeting instead.
On the vert stab and rudder, I removed half of the material used to frame up the parts (made all the "holes" bigger).
Big opportunity to remove weight on the fuse-----lots of rounding on the corners as Dave mentioned. Hollow blocks to about 3/16" thickness if you can get to the inside. I also used the Dremel drum to remove most of the inside of the ply formers at F2 and F3.
I made a new firewall of 7 ply 1/4" (just tall enough to contain the lightened nylon mount, with about 1/4" excess above the top and below the bottom of the mount). I used firm 1/4" balsa to make the finished firewall conform to the top and bottom outlines of the original firewall.
Some smart --- once said "In a perfectly designed airplane, every part should break in a crash".....
No pics of the process but I will take and supply measurements if it would help.
After the wing cores were sheeted I drew rib bays and then attacked the wing with my Dremel sanding drum; went all the way through the wing in most of the bays. Left the "ribs" 3/8" wide, look sorta like wide cap strips.
I didn't do any cut outs in the stab but did sand the sheets really well--could have used 1/32" sheeting instead.
On the vert stab and rudder, I removed half of the material used to frame up the parts (made all the "holes" bigger).
Big opportunity to remove weight on the fuse-----lots of rounding on the corners as Dave mentioned. Hollow blocks to about 3/16" thickness if you can get to the inside. I also used the Dremel drum to remove most of the inside of the ply formers at F2 and F3.
I made a new firewall of 7 ply 1/4" (just tall enough to contain the lightened nylon mount, with about 1/4" excess above the top and below the bottom of the mount). I used firm 1/4" balsa to make the finished firewall conform to the top and bottom outlines of the original firewall.
Some smart --- once said "In a perfectly designed airplane, every part should break in a crash".....
02-21-2016, 07:11 AM
#148
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Good info. I didn't round the top of the fuse more because the canopy was almost wider then the fuse already. I'll try to round just a bit more. My fin and rudder were built out of less stick before sheeting then so I'm going to cut them back open. I'll go measure and look into cutting open bays in the wing. Without building a new plane I can't lose much weight anywhere else. The wing seems to be the last area I can easily get too. I might scratch build another escape next winter.
02-21-2016, 07:18 PM
#150
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I'm sure that 2 lbs of the model are due primarily to the wood density and thickness and perhaps a little too much glue here and there. An 8 lb Escape is doable. We have a builder over on RCG who just pulled off a 7.5 lbs all up EU-1A which has a glass fuse and is all painted. Most guys back in the day were building them to ~10 lbs... The EU-1A is a big plane compared to most classics.
David
Last edited by doxilia; 02-22-2016 at 04:38 AM.