Skyaviation Classic Pattern Planes
03-19-2017, 11:36 AM
#26
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Countilaw and others- Frank, and anyone interested in the glo Arrow--let me tell you what I know of SkyAviations, then give my opinions for what they are worth.
First, Dieter at Sky Aviations LOVES classic pattern aircraft, and wants to produce a quality product for both European and American modelers. I have talked to him a number of times on the phone and his enthusiasm for pattern and quality is evident to me. Personally, I got one of the early Marabu models which was built and covered to a high level of quality, (see attached.) When I first looked at it when it arrived direct from the factory in China, it looked like it was primarily designed as an electric ARF. That is easy to understand due to the fact they have severe noise restrictions in Europe, the vast majority of planes there are electric. Even muffled models aren't quiet enough. I presume the Marabu and Komet have been test-flown with a glo engine, (a glo motor mount was included, but I'm not 100 certain, so I can't talk about that. Since in my own situation, I had been thinking about trying out an electric for a long time, and since the ARF looked "happiest" and easiest to assemble as an electric, I decided to make it my first electric, and it's about ready for its first flight. I look forward to flying this model that won both the 1969 and 1971 worlds. BTW--I love the realistic way the retracts I got from Dieter work, and the units appear to be rugged enough, (hopefully rugged enough for me).
Sky Aviations is a pretty ambitious company that wants a number of models for you to choose between and is constantly working on them. Now they are producing an Arrow. The electric Arrow appears to be fine, but the glo version is being re-engineered and hasn't been fully tested or flown. It looks to me like Dieter is genuinely trying hard to satisfy his primarily American market by producing a stronger, quality Arrow suitable for strong 2-strokes. Since I believe Dieter is committed to quality, he will do exactly what he says he will do, but I think he's inadvertently gotten ahead of himself a bit, and he's not there yet with the final product. Because of that, he is offering a deal for anyone who wants the re-engineered version, and is willing to wait a while for it to be finished and test-flown. It is up to the individual to either take advantage of the early production deal or not, but I have no doubt that Dieter intends the plane will be a quality product very close to the original when it is done. Like any manufacturer, areas for improvement make themselves known, and the ARF is improved over time.
Dieter--Do not become discouraged--it is not unusual for Americans to want a proven, completed plane that has been thoroughly test-flown before they spend hundreds of dollars for it. That is what we are used to over here. They are not being critical of you or Sky Aviations--they want the Arrow, but they need to be positive it will be strong enough for the powerful glo engines that will be powering this high-performance model. These things take time, and I'd advise you to offer the electric version while updating us on your progress, and the test flights. I believe that the re-engineered glo version will be worth waiting for.
Duane
Newsletter Editor
Senior Pattern Association, (SPA)
First, Dieter at Sky Aviations LOVES classic pattern aircraft, and wants to produce a quality product for both European and American modelers. I have talked to him a number of times on the phone and his enthusiasm for pattern and quality is evident to me. Personally, I got one of the early Marabu models which was built and covered to a high level of quality, (see attached.) When I first looked at it when it arrived direct from the factory in China, it looked like it was primarily designed as an electric ARF. That is easy to understand due to the fact they have severe noise restrictions in Europe, the vast majority of planes there are electric. Even muffled models aren't quiet enough. I presume the Marabu and Komet have been test-flown with a glo engine, (a glo motor mount was included, but I'm not 100 certain, so I can't talk about that. Since in my own situation, I had been thinking about trying out an electric for a long time, and since the ARF looked "happiest" and easiest to assemble as an electric, I decided to make it my first electric, and it's about ready for its first flight. I look forward to flying this model that won both the 1969 and 1971 worlds. BTW--I love the realistic way the retracts I got from Dieter work, and the units appear to be rugged enough, (hopefully rugged enough for me).
Sky Aviations is a pretty ambitious company that wants a number of models for you to choose between and is constantly working on them. Now they are producing an Arrow. The electric Arrow appears to be fine, but the glo version is being re-engineered and hasn't been fully tested or flown. It looks to me like Dieter is genuinely trying hard to satisfy his primarily American market by producing a stronger, quality Arrow suitable for strong 2-strokes. Since I believe Dieter is committed to quality, he will do exactly what he says he will do, but I think he's inadvertently gotten ahead of himself a bit, and he's not there yet with the final product. Because of that, he is offering a deal for anyone who wants the re-engineered version, and is willing to wait a while for it to be finished and test-flown. It is up to the individual to either take advantage of the early production deal or not, but I have no doubt that Dieter intends the plane will be a quality product very close to the original when it is done. Like any manufacturer, areas for improvement make themselves known, and the ARF is improved over time.
Dieter--Do not become discouraged--it is not unusual for Americans to want a proven, completed plane that has been thoroughly test-flown before they spend hundreds of dollars for it. That is what we are used to over here. They are not being critical of you or Sky Aviations--they want the Arrow, but they need to be positive it will be strong enough for the powerful glo engines that will be powering this high-performance model. These things take time, and I'd advise you to offer the electric version while updating us on your progress, and the test flights. I believe that the re-engineered glo version will be worth waiting for.
Duane
Newsletter Editor
Senior Pattern Association, (SPA)
03-19-2017, 05:51 PM
#27
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Well said Duane, I would rather wait another 4 to 6 weeks and have a plane that Dieter is happy with than have a plane that would not hold up to the 2 stroke motors. I also believe Dieter is trying to do the right thing and not letting poor quality out the door.
03-19-2017, 07:24 PM
#28
Dieter, I apologize if I seem indifferent to you plane. I've have seen many people ripped off on the net by people of unscrupulous intentions.
Send me your hard earned money and your plane will be shipped from China. Only later when the plane doesn't arrive and you go looking for your money from the guy you sent it to claims, your money is in China. No money, no plane and no recourse.
You might do better if you don't have a "U S representative" and let people deal directly with your web site. A web site that shows a physical address and using the most popular language in the world "English".
The planes I have seen look *****in and maybe one day I will own one.
Sorry if I seem pessimistic, but I've been told that I am really a nice guy.
Frank
Send me your hard earned money and your plane will be shipped from China. Only later when the plane doesn't arrive and you go looking for your money from the guy you sent it to claims, your money is in China. No money, no plane and no recourse.
You might do better if you don't have a "U S representative" and let people deal directly with your web site. A web site that shows a physical address and using the most popular language in the world "English".
The planes I have seen look *****in and maybe one day I will own one.
Sorry if I seem pessimistic, but I've been told that I am really a nice guy.
Frank
03-20-2017, 09:16 AM
#29
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preorders. I suppose they need some cash to start the production. but what happens if they can't sell enough preorders to start this production. will I get my money back??
Last edited by Directout; 03-20-2017 at 09:21 AM.
03-20-2017, 09:54 AM
#30
November 18 2016 Vquick states delivery date of Feb 2017 It's now March 2017 and the Electric version is not available.
November 28, 2016 Arrow productions have started. Productions means "On the assembly line" I don't think so.
Vquick states he does a lot of things.
USA Rep. www.Skyaviations.com
USA Rep www.classicpattern.com
Jet Central www.jetcentral.com.mx/
Team Pilot for
OPTIPOWER Batt.
JETI Radio
MKS servos
Demon Cortex
2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 D3 Advance Champion
I just can't believe anything this guy says.
Mr. Dieter, you really need a new U.S. Rep.
Frank
Ok the plane is available for preorder now with a discount price for preorder also delivery date is February 2017 the plane comes in 2 versions electric or glow version the plane will be ship from China directly to your house after check shipping cost is the best option the shipping is $80.00 and here is the link were you can pre order
https://www.skyaviations.com/en/clas...-planes/arrow/
https://www.skyaviations.com/en/clas...-planes/arrow/
November 28, 2016 Arrow productions have started. Productions means "On the assembly line" I don't think so.
The Arrow productions have started, the planes can now be pre ordered. The production quantity is limited we will have electric and glow versions of this magnificent plane.
Please do not order in the shop, for inquiries please contact Victor Diaz at [email protected]
Please send your order to [email protected]
We look forward to receiving your order. Your Sky Aviations team
Please do not order in the shop, for inquiries please contact Victor Diaz at [email protected]
Please send your order to [email protected]
We look forward to receiving your order. Your Sky Aviations team
Vquick states he does a lot of things.
USA Rep. www.Skyaviations.com
USA Rep www.classicpattern.com
Jet Central www.jetcentral.com.mx/
Team Pilot for
OPTIPOWER Batt.
JETI Radio
MKS servos
Demon Cortex
2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 D3 Advance Champion
I just can't believe anything this guy says.
Mr. Dieter, you really need a new U.S. Rep.
Frank
03-20-2017, 12:31 PM
#32
November 18 2016 Vquick states delivery date of Feb 2017 It's now March 2017 and the Electric version is not available.
November 28, 2016 Arrow productions have started. Productions means "On the assembly line" I don't think so.
Vquick states he does a lot of things.
USA Rep. www.Skyaviations.com
USA Rep www.classicpattern.com
Jet Central www.jetcentral.com.mx/
Team Pilot for
OPTIPOWER Batt.
JETI Radio
MKS servos
Demon Cortex
2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 D3 Advance Champion
I just can't believe anything this guy says.
Mr. Dieter, you really need a new U.S. Rep.
Frank
November 28, 2016 Arrow productions have started. Productions means "On the assembly line" I don't think so.
Vquick states he does a lot of things.
USA Rep. www.Skyaviations.com
USA Rep www.classicpattern.com
Jet Central www.jetcentral.com.mx/
Team Pilot for
OPTIPOWER Batt.
JETI Radio
MKS servos
Demon Cortex
2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 D3 Advance Champion
I just can't believe anything this guy says.
Mr. Dieter, you really need a new U.S. Rep.
Frank
03-20-2017, 09:42 PM
#33
My Feedback: (4)
Frank/Dieter;
I can understand why you might be skeptical--but all I can tell you for sure is that I built a Marabu--finished it as my first electric with the retracts Dieter sells and everything with the plane seems OK quality-wise. I have built other ARFs, and the Marabu was well thought out. The builder can always .make little mods here and there if he feels the plane might benefit from it, but other than adding triangular stock to the motor box to beef it up a bit, I didn't see the need for any changes.
It seems to me that he's trying, but Dieter's first love in my opinion is vintage pattern and developing the planes. The "business" end of things is much harder with many production obstacles to overcome.. He may be trying to do too much too soon. Personally, I think he should slow down a little, get better organized, and take it slow. In the US we are accustomed to everything being worked out BEFORE the models are marketed. For example, my Marabu came with instructions in German, (not good if you are an American customer),and I didn't feel all that confident building the plane. Fortunately, I have a German friend who translated the instructions, (not all but the most important parts), into English for me. After that I was good to go. Now anyone who buys a Marabu has those translated instructions. I think these kinds of things should be worked out in advance in order to avoid confusion, and in the case of the Arrow, you can see we have too much confusion. Everything might be fine, but to us it appears that Dieter is ahead of himself when it comes to the glo version of the Arrow.
The market for a good ARF of the Arrow will be there when all the production problems are worked out, and everyone will be happier. I know that Sky Aviations needs a cash-flow, but on the other hand, people have to be SURE, (have confidence) in what they are buying, and that the company has its problems in check.
This is my best advice--I wish you well Dieter because we need quality ARFs of classic pattern planes. Take your time and get it right.
Duane
I can understand why you might be skeptical--but all I can tell you for sure is that I built a Marabu--finished it as my first electric with the retracts Dieter sells and everything with the plane seems OK quality-wise. I have built other ARFs, and the Marabu was well thought out. The builder can always .make little mods here and there if he feels the plane might benefit from it, but other than adding triangular stock to the motor box to beef it up a bit, I didn't see the need for any changes.
It seems to me that he's trying, but Dieter's first love in my opinion is vintage pattern and developing the planes. The "business" end of things is much harder with many production obstacles to overcome.. He may be trying to do too much too soon. Personally, I think he should slow down a little, get better organized, and take it slow. In the US we are accustomed to everything being worked out BEFORE the models are marketed. For example, my Marabu came with instructions in German, (not good if you are an American customer),and I didn't feel all that confident building the plane. Fortunately, I have a German friend who translated the instructions, (not all but the most important parts), into English for me. After that I was good to go. Now anyone who buys a Marabu has those translated instructions. I think these kinds of things should be worked out in advance in order to avoid confusion, and in the case of the Arrow, you can see we have too much confusion. Everything might be fine, but to us it appears that Dieter is ahead of himself when it comes to the glo version of the Arrow.
The market for a good ARF of the Arrow will be there when all the production problems are worked out, and everyone will be happier. I know that Sky Aviations needs a cash-flow, but on the other hand, people have to be SURE, (have confidence) in what they are buying, and that the company has its problems in check.
This is my best advice--I wish you well Dieter because we need quality ARFs of classic pattern planes. Take your time and get it right.
Duane
03-25-2017, 09:58 AM
#37
I'm glad to hear you've decided to go with a fiberglass fuse for the nitro version.
keep us posted!
keep us posted!
We want tolet you know in this forum: We decided to enhance the structural design and theproduction process of this classic ARF.
Many thanks to all who are interested in theproject.Such kind of an ARF project isnot an easy one - and needs its time.
The electric prototype had been test-flownsuccessfully, but we had our factory build also the glow version prototypebefore we would commission a production run - fortunately.Three weeks ago we finally got the glowfuselage. Checking it revealed some problems in accomplishing both an electricand a glow version – as I said: it's not easy.
We wanted the same fuselage design for bothversions, only the turtledecks may be different.But the glow version needs a much more ruggedfuselage than the electric version. Another problem is how to design thefuselage nose so it can accommodate different glow engines and electric motorsalike.
A fixed turtledeck is a less than perfectsolution since it should be easily detachable at the field. The existing designwas not good enough in our eyes, as was the whole fuselage structure which wasnot as rugged as needed for the glow version. Besides, the exhaust blowing overthe Ultracote covering would make the fuselage look awful after a few flights.
After a lot of pondering and discussing we nowdecided for a fiberglass fuselage.Todaywe finished the CAD design and next week we will mill the plug.
The built-up wings and tails from our"wood factory" are no problem, their quality is excellent. Coveredwith Ultracote (German: Oracover), the wing halves and tail feathers are justabout perfect.
Fuselage production will begin soon. It willbe a convenient ARF fuselage, ready for easy R/C and drive installation.
As an accessory we can offer a 3D-printeddummy Webra 61 Racing. Our ‘Made in Italy’ wing bags are just finished.
The projectis making good progress. Have a look at the pictures at our website. Wewill update it soon.
@Countilaw:We introduced the project nine months ago, that is correct – but we acceptedfirst orders only late November / early December 2016. And we announced thatthe plane would be finished not before March. That didn't work out due to theproblems mentioned above, but I believe it will take only a few more weeks toget the ARF ready.
Many thanks to all who are interested in theproject.Such kind of an ARF project isnot an easy one - and needs its time.
The electric prototype had been test-flownsuccessfully, but we had our factory build also the glow version prototypebefore we would commission a production run - fortunately.Three weeks ago we finally got the glowfuselage. Checking it revealed some problems in accomplishing both an electricand a glow version – as I said: it's not easy.
We wanted the same fuselage design for bothversions, only the turtledecks may be different.But the glow version needs a much more ruggedfuselage than the electric version. Another problem is how to design thefuselage nose so it can accommodate different glow engines and electric motorsalike.
A fixed turtledeck is a less than perfectsolution since it should be easily detachable at the field. The existing designwas not good enough in our eyes, as was the whole fuselage structure which wasnot as rugged as needed for the glow version. Besides, the exhaust blowing overthe Ultracote covering would make the fuselage look awful after a few flights.
After a lot of pondering and discussing we nowdecided for a fiberglass fuselage.Todaywe finished the CAD design and next week we will mill the plug.
The built-up wings and tails from our"wood factory" are no problem, their quality is excellent. Coveredwith Ultracote (German: Oracover), the wing halves and tail feathers are justabout perfect.
Fuselage production will begin soon. It willbe a convenient ARF fuselage, ready for easy R/C and drive installation.
As an accessory we can offer a 3D-printeddummy Webra 61 Racing. Our ‘Made in Italy’ wing bags are just finished.
The projectis making good progress. Have a look at the pictures at our website. Wewill update it soon.
@Countilaw:We introduced the project nine months ago, that is correct – but we acceptedfirst orders only late November / early December 2016. And we announced thatthe plane would be finished not before March. That didn't work out due to theproblems mentioned above, but I believe it will take only a few more weeks toget the ARF ready.
05-16-2017, 05:59 AM
#39
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Just talked to Dieter at Sky Aviation and here is the progress on the fiberglass fuse Arrow. The molds are complete and the 1st fuse has been completed. The color samples have been sent to the guy making the fiberglass fuse and the covering has been sent to the wing and stab manufacturer. The plan is the 1st 2 planes will be tested to make sure the new fuse is correct and then they will be ready to sell. I will do a build thread and go through one of the Arrows and do the flight testing and a build thread here on RCU. I understand it is taking longer than expected but for one I am glad because I believe it will be a better plane in the end. I am also one of the guys that has a preorder in for 3 of them but so much happier that he went with the glass fuse and not balsa.
05-23-2017, 05:46 PM
#41
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Do we have an idea on when they'll be ready?
I am ready to place an order but concerned that they list it as "available", but only talk about the electric, wood version.
I am ready to place an order but concerned that they list it as "available", but only talk about the electric, wood version.
05-24-2017, 10:15 AM
#42
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Just talked to Dieter and he is hoping to have the 1st test fuse this week and hopefully some pics of the fuse out of the mold tomorrow. I will post more info when I have it.
06-29-2017, 09:12 PM
#43
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Just received these pics today. Here is the 1st fuse out of the of the mold and this one has the electric version top on it. Dieter is hoping to have the 1st glow version fuse and top painted in the mold and ready to put together in the next week or so. Once he has done the flight testing the planes will be on the way to the people that have pre ordered them. I will be doing a build thread on mine and flight testing. We have 3 that we will be flying 2 with the OS 61 VF and 1 with a Novi Rossi rear. I know this has been a long process but it looks like it will pay off. I will let you know once we get the 1st one here for testing.
07-15-2017, 07:08 PM
#45
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Here are some new pics I got from Dieter. This shows the paint in the mold fuse and also shows the carbon fiber reinforcement in some areas. The fuse looks very good and Dieter has said the other colors will be added later I am not sure when the 1st plane will be in the US but I will do a build thread as soon as I get it
if you are interested in ordering you can email Dieter @ [email protected]. he should chime in and give any price updates and hopefully a lead time on on deliveries
if you are interested in ordering you can email Dieter @ [email protected]. he should chime in and give any price updates and hopefully a lead time on on deliveries
Last edited by toddblose; 07-15-2017 at 09:26 PM.
07-17-2017, 12:25 PM
#46
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couple more pics of the Arrow, These are the 1st 2 fuse's out of the mold. From what I understand testing will be done on these 2 to make sure no changes need to be made.
Im sure after that all other planes will ship.
Im sure after that all other planes will ship.
08-20-2020, 06:23 PM
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Its now under Classicpattern | Modellflug. Last time I talked to Dieter he was still working on them. He has gotten into full scale so I just dont have a good feeling he can get it going.