EZ Supra Star 60
07-31-2013, 12:49 PM
#1
EZ Supra Star 60
Hello everybody,
Just got this rare kit from a good friend and I would like some advice and insights from who ever built one of these please.
What servos would be adequate for it (will high torque mini's do? ) , the kit comes so called "naked"... no pushrods, rod ends, clevises, servo trays if recall , retracts,wheels .. where's the place I can get the stuff needed.
Just got this rare kit from a good friend and I would like some advice and insights from who ever built one of these please.
What servos would be adequate for it (will high torque mini's do? ) , the kit comes so called "naked"... no pushrods, rod ends, clevises, servo trays if recall , retracts,wheels .. where's the place I can get the stuff needed.
07-31-2013, 06:28 PM
#2
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RE: EZ Supra Star 60
Just being curious, your date joined is 2003, that 10 years in this hobby and you are asking where to buy parts OR what parts to use. With that amount of time in the hobby, one would think you should know - trust your instincts in building.
07-31-2013, 06:42 PM
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RE: EZ Supra Star 60
ORIGINAL: lavi rider
What servos would be adequate for it (will high torque mini's do? ) , the kit comes so called ''naked''... no pushrods, rod ends, clevises, servo trays if recall , retracts,wheels .. where's the place I can get the stuff needed.
What servos would be adequate for it (will high torque mini's do? ) , the kit comes so called ''naked''... no pushrods, rod ends, clevises, servo trays if recall , retracts,wheels .. where's the place I can get the stuff needed.
yes, on ailerons you can use high torque mini's although standards wouldn't hurt given the larger size of this bird. For elevator and rudder you should use standard size servos and a high precision is preferable on the elevator and a high torque on the rudder. Digitals or coreless analog are always preferable to cored analogs. For throttle an analog mini is fine as is for pneumatic retracts if you go that route.
I believe that EZ kit uses conventional retracts on the wing only so going with good electric retracts is not a bad option. For power, I personally think that an inverted piped two stroke installation is the way to go unless you go with e-power as well. If you do, 1600-1800W of motor power is nice on a 12 to 13" prop and 6s LiPo. For glow, there are two wonderful new rear exhaust engines on the market from NovaRossi and YS.
For hardware, you buy what you want where you want. I'll have to agree with Steve in that if you've been building ARF's for the last 10 years, this is a good time and opportunity to get some proper experience in rigging a classic pattern plane. Take a look at the threads, radio and retract installations and you will find much inspiration and good info.
We look forward to some pics of your build! Quintessential Prettner design!
David
07-31-2013, 10:59 PM
#4
RE: EZ Supra Star 60
Ok, let me clear up some things here.
Sure I can do a proper rigging , it's just that for the past 15 years or so I've been building large scale birds (due to their nature they are rigged in totally different way than F3A planes)...the last F3A plane I built was the MK Aurora by Naruke (I hope I got his name right :-) ),, back then we used standard sized servos in the 5~6 kg (65~85) range . All the hardware was from MK , I know MK are out of business since 2008 or so and that there's been much progress since then in means of quality hardware such as slop free rod ends, bearing assisted clevises ,titanium struts and so on.
My humble seek for advice was on where can this high end stuff be purchased generally these days and due to the recent development in servo technology should I stick to the "old" servos while we have better performing servos in means of size ,power, weight, speed, etc'.....today.
Due to this models nature being so rare and unique I would like to get the best there is out there for it.
I have some OS Hanno Special NIB along with its matching tuned pipes and am planning on installing one in it for power .If I recall it's the power plant Mr, Prettner used in his personal Supra Star back then .
I saw here that there's a new YS out in the market (old school) , I would love to buy a few of these but have no idea where to.
Sure I can do a proper rigging , it's just that for the past 15 years or so I've been building large scale birds (due to their nature they are rigged in totally different way than F3A planes)...the last F3A plane I built was the MK Aurora by Naruke (I hope I got his name right :-) ),, back then we used standard sized servos in the 5~6 kg (65~85) range . All the hardware was from MK , I know MK are out of business since 2008 or so and that there's been much progress since then in means of quality hardware such as slop free rod ends, bearing assisted clevises ,titanium struts and so on.
My humble seek for advice was on where can this high end stuff be purchased generally these days and due to the recent development in servo technology should I stick to the "old" servos while we have better performing servos in means of size ,power, weight, speed, etc'.....today.
Due to this models nature being so rare and unique I would like to get the best there is out there for it.
I have some OS Hanno Special NIB along with its matching tuned pipes and am planning on installing one in it for power .If I recall it's the power plant Mr, Prettner used in his personal Supra Star back then .
I saw here that there's a new YS out in the market (old school) , I would love to buy a few of these but have no idea where to.
08-11-2013, 03:06 AM
#6
Supra Star 60
OK, here are some shots I took of the current stages of my build.... first preparation of the wing , joining the halves and glassing the top part with two layers of 120 E glass cloth, second , sanding smooth the surface of the cloth .
08-11-2013, 03:13 AM
#7
Supra Star 60
Next applying the ready made FRP wing center section on the bottom part of the wing. Drilled out the holes for the mounting screws...Matching the wing to the fuselage . The wing is attached and fixed in position by three M5 screws and two 8mm wood dowels inserted in the LE ...
08-11-2013, 10:07 AM
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Lavi,
nice work!
That is indeed a very rare Pilot kit. I just saw some '88 vintage TOC video with an interview with Hanno where he states that the same Pilot kit of the Supra Fly (the model before the Supra Star) came in at 7 lbs. With an OS Hanno Special up front, the model will perform in an unlimited fashion. I wanted to mention though that Hanno didn't switch to OS engines for his world championship FAI designs until the Mystic which he flew in '92. The Magic, Calypso, Supra Fly and Supra Star were all flown on Super Tigre power. Double checking myself, it is possible that the SS was flown with a standard OS 61RF-P which was a similar engine to the HS with less lugging capacity and designed to turn 2-3K rpm higher (about 12K rather than 9.5K as the Hanno is intended to).
What engine was used exactly on the Supra Fly and Star models I'm not sure although he switched from the inverted X61 TST on the Magic to an S61 mounted at 8 o'clock for the Calypso. This latter design as the Supra models were still all designed and best suited to inverted RE engines. I suspect the use of the SE S61 was a marketing strategy by ST as well as a desire of Hanno's to show the world that he could be competitive with a "trainer" model and a standard "sport" power plant off the shelf. That said, I think the OS Hanno is the ideal engine for both the Supra Star and the Mystic while the Calypso and Supra Fly can easily do well with a slightly less powerful engine such as the ST X61. When using this last engine on the Magic, Hanno turned a custom 11x9 prop in competition to keep noise levels down.
Now that I've seen how the ARF is designed, it looks like the wing is specifically made for mechanical retracts (as all Pilot Hanno ARF's probably were) - likely the so called Hanno designed Japanese "Supra" retracts. These are very similar to the Hobbico mechanical retracts currently available for ~$20. Other than mechanicals, I would go with e-tracts from any number of companies on a conventional gear design like this. Personally, I wouldn't involve the complexity of pneumatics here as it's not needed.
If I may make a suggestion, I'd also suggest that you mount your wing with nylon 1/4-20 bolts rather than the metal screws provided. It will prevent the wing and/or fuse from cracking on an accidental wing tip drop on landing. The front end dowels (good insurance - I like that "dual" approach) should give too. Another bolt switch to consider is to use flat head nylon 3/4" 4-40 bolts into blind nuts to attach the retracts - again, a wing/retract plate saving approach if the LG is hammered hard. Mind you, if the retract plates are already in place, it will be next to impossible to get blind nuts on the underside (unless they are already there!) so wood screws will have to do.
As with larger scale IMAC type models, many of us use regulated 2s LiPo or LiFe packs. If you want to add a measure of insurance, you can use dual switches on dual packs into a 7-8 channel receiver. The 8 channels would be needed should you decide to use dual mini servos on the elevators as one might on the ailerons. Just keep the tail servos in the fuse rather than on the outside... ;-) The attached picture shows how I opted to install my radio in an MK (EZ Pilot Japanese sibling kit maker) Super Chipmunk that I re-designed for electric power. The picture shows the 1/8" lite ply servo tray with the two mini elevator slots and the standard rudder servo slot centered in front of them for a Pull-Pull setup. Typical in an inverted radio installation (like in your SS) accessed through the wing, the rudder servo would go behind the elevator servos so the positions would be inverted. In the Chippy re-design, access to the radio is from the top via canopy removal. You can use dual CF pushrods with 4-40 hardware at the ends to connect the elevators. I like ball links at the servo end and HD (e.g., DuBro) pinned clevises on the control horn end. I use 4-40 bolts with eyelets as control horns embedded into 1/2" wood dowels in the surface. There are many ways to skin that cat but you were inquiring so I thought I'd let you know one possibility. BTW, the slot in the upper rear portion of the "fuse top bracket" is for an optional rudder servo location which winds up being hidden by the portion of the rear turtle deck that is removed with the canopy - just like in current 2m FAI pattern designs and many IMAC type models.
I look forward to seeing the fuse and your engine & radio install!
I hope this helps, David
nice work!
That is indeed a very rare Pilot kit. I just saw some '88 vintage TOC video with an interview with Hanno where he states that the same Pilot kit of the Supra Fly (the model before the Supra Star) came in at 7 lbs. With an OS Hanno Special up front, the model will perform in an unlimited fashion. I wanted to mention though that Hanno didn't switch to OS engines for his world championship FAI designs until the Mystic which he flew in '92. The Magic, Calypso, Supra Fly and Supra Star were all flown on Super Tigre power. Double checking myself, it is possible that the SS was flown with a standard OS 61RF-P which was a similar engine to the HS with less lugging capacity and designed to turn 2-3K rpm higher (about 12K rather than 9.5K as the Hanno is intended to).
What engine was used exactly on the Supra Fly and Star models I'm not sure although he switched from the inverted X61 TST on the Magic to an S61 mounted at 8 o'clock for the Calypso. This latter design as the Supra models were still all designed and best suited to inverted RE engines. I suspect the use of the SE S61 was a marketing strategy by ST as well as a desire of Hanno's to show the world that he could be competitive with a "trainer" model and a standard "sport" power plant off the shelf. That said, I think the OS Hanno is the ideal engine for both the Supra Star and the Mystic while the Calypso and Supra Fly can easily do well with a slightly less powerful engine such as the ST X61. When using this last engine on the Magic, Hanno turned a custom 11x9 prop in competition to keep noise levels down.
Now that I've seen how the ARF is designed, it looks like the wing is specifically made for mechanical retracts (as all Pilot Hanno ARF's probably were) - likely the so called Hanno designed Japanese "Supra" retracts. These are very similar to the Hobbico mechanical retracts currently available for ~$20. Other than mechanicals, I would go with e-tracts from any number of companies on a conventional gear design like this. Personally, I wouldn't involve the complexity of pneumatics here as it's not needed.
If I may make a suggestion, I'd also suggest that you mount your wing with nylon 1/4-20 bolts rather than the metal screws provided. It will prevent the wing and/or fuse from cracking on an accidental wing tip drop on landing. The front end dowels (good insurance - I like that "dual" approach) should give too. Another bolt switch to consider is to use flat head nylon 3/4" 4-40 bolts into blind nuts to attach the retracts - again, a wing/retract plate saving approach if the LG is hammered hard. Mind you, if the retract plates are already in place, it will be next to impossible to get blind nuts on the underside (unless they are already there!) so wood screws will have to do.
As with larger scale IMAC type models, many of us use regulated 2s LiPo or LiFe packs. If you want to add a measure of insurance, you can use dual switches on dual packs into a 7-8 channel receiver. The 8 channels would be needed should you decide to use dual mini servos on the elevators as one might on the ailerons. Just keep the tail servos in the fuse rather than on the outside... ;-) The attached picture shows how I opted to install my radio in an MK (EZ Pilot Japanese sibling kit maker) Super Chipmunk that I re-designed for electric power. The picture shows the 1/8" lite ply servo tray with the two mini elevator slots and the standard rudder servo slot centered in front of them for a Pull-Pull setup. Typical in an inverted radio installation (like in your SS) accessed through the wing, the rudder servo would go behind the elevator servos so the positions would be inverted. In the Chippy re-design, access to the radio is from the top via canopy removal. You can use dual CF pushrods with 4-40 hardware at the ends to connect the elevators. I like ball links at the servo end and HD (e.g., DuBro) pinned clevises on the control horn end. I use 4-40 bolts with eyelets as control horns embedded into 1/2" wood dowels in the surface. There are many ways to skin that cat but you were inquiring so I thought I'd let you know one possibility. BTW, the slot in the upper rear portion of the "fuse top bracket" is for an optional rudder servo location which winds up being hidden by the portion of the rear turtle deck that is removed with the canopy - just like in current 2m FAI pattern designs and many IMAC type models.
I look forward to seeing the fuse and your engine & radio install!
I hope this helps, David
Last edited by doxilia; 08-11-2013 at 10:11 AM.
08-27-2013, 02:07 PM
#17
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Great looking model. When is the test flight?
Hanno flew the prototype 'Hanno Special' at the '89 WC (it had the internal modifications, but not the red, anodized head) in his SupraStar. He flew an OS 120SP at the '91 WC where he placed 5th (Chip won with his Webra 61 powered Jeckyll). Hanno flew a .60 sized EZ Mystic at the '93 WC powered with a stock Hanno Special. He won and that was the last WC he competed at.
Hanno flew the prototype 'Hanno Special' at the '89 WC (it had the internal modifications, but not the red, anodized head) in his SupraStar. He flew an OS 120SP at the '91 WC where he placed 5th (Chip won with his Webra 61 powered Jeckyll). Hanno flew a .60 sized EZ Mystic at the '93 WC powered with a stock Hanno Special. He won and that was the last WC he competed at.
Last edited by flywilly; 08-27-2013 at 02:09 PM.
08-27-2013, 07:49 PM
#18
Thanks for the Info .
I guess it'll be ready in a couple of weeks or so . Still waiting for some stuff from central hobbies to arrive and although there's a picture with the engine/tuned pipe on I'm still not sure what power plant I'm gonna put on her, I've got some OS Hanno's , WEBRA's and YS engines all NIB ....
I guess it'll be ready in a couple of weeks or so . Still waiting for some stuff from central hobbies to arrive and although there's a picture with the engine/tuned pipe on I'm still not sure what power plant I'm gonna put on her, I've got some OS Hanno's , WEBRA's and YS engines all NIB ....
03-15-2017, 10:19 AM
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Yes of course, but this model was design by Hanno Prettner, F3A champion, the engine is a OS Hanno special with hatori muffler and pipe, MK retracts and propeller, so I think its value is more as a collective, I do not have a clue how is worth.