kingaltair

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I have always been interested in the Phoenix Series by Don Lowe. The very first plane I built (as a mid-teen, but never flew it---long story), was a Phoenix 1 from RCM plans. It was soo cool with those swept wings. I've been able to meet, and talk briefly with Mr Lowe, but still have questions. I've seen the Phoenix 1, 5, 6 and 8, but have never seen the others in the series. Assuming there was a Phoenix 2, 3 and 4, does anybody know about them, what they looked like, how they flew, and if plans are available. I'd be very interested to hear people's opinions about the differences in Phoenix designs, and how the flight characteristics varied--- from the Phoenix 1 on. Please post your pictures of as many different Phoenix designs as possible for comparison.

Phoenix Fan

grotto2

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Of course, there was a Phoenix 9, an early '90s turnaround design for .61 two stroke. It didn't have swept wings, though.
Probably, the 'Nine' was never kitted or published. Maybe the same for the others you mention.

jonlowe

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Phoenix 1 was published by RCM. Was kitted with fiberglass fuselage, but I never saw one of these kits. Originally powered by a Super Tigre .46, then a .51, then a .56 as they became available.
Phoenix 2 was a Phoenix 1 with less sweep, about 15 degrees. Not published. One built.
Phoenix 3 was somewhat larger, similar sweep as Phoenix 1 One built, not published. Airplane still exists.
Phoenix 4 was a new design, less sweep, one built, not published.
Phoenix 5 used the wing and tail from the Phoenix 4, more side area for knife edge, published by American Modeler magazine. Kitted with fiberglass fuselage, foam wing by numerous people. Also a 40 sized version was kitted with a fiberglass fuselage. TONS of these were built. Wing Manufacturing has the molds and is kitting them.
Phoenix 6 was somewhat smaller. Was kitted with a fiberglass fuselage/foam wings. Kit wasn't very good, and was heavy.
Phoenix 7 was a very minor departure from the Phoenix 6, primarily done for another fiberglass kit seller for something different. High quality kits produced by Joe Bridi, but sold under another name.
Phoenix 8 was somewhat larger. Kits allegedly still available from PAC, but haven't tried to get one. I know the molds exist.
Phoenix 9 was a departure from previous thinking and designed for turnaround pattern. Swept leading edge, straight trailing edge. Larger overall, two piece wing, specifically designed for a muffled tuned pipe. The late Bob Godfrey (of TOC fame) built some of them up for various people. I have one, with an OS .61 RFP ABC, and pipe. Not published.
Phoenix 10 was essentially a Phoenix 9 with a longer fuselage (2 inches?). One built with a Hanno .61. Plane still exists. Last in the series.

Jon Lowe

kingaltair

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Wow---that's what I was looking for all right--thanks so much. I think the wingspan on the Phoenix 1 was around 67". How much larger was the "3"? From the RCM article on the Phoenix 1, Don said overall the greater sweep helped the plane fly better under windy conditions, but all later versions of the Phoenix had less sweep. Do you know what the negatives of increased sweep are, and why he went to less sweep over time?

Again, thanks for the great reply, and looking forward to seeing you.

jonlowe

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I really don't know how much bigger the 3 is. I don't have access to it at the moment. The sweep was always a compromise, helps some things and hurts others. He just kept changing it until hs got what he wanted.

Jon

SkyKnight

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Can you tell me who is PAC models? Or better yet, how can they be contacted? I'm trying to help a friend of mine that restored a Phoenix 8 but he doesn't know the CG location.

tia,
-alan

KaosDriver

kingaltair: In Don's article he cites several negatives of excessively-swept wings. The biggest is an abrupt stall. Not one to be "dragged in" on base to final. In addition the sweep makes it more difficult to spin and snap-roll. He goes on to say the Phoenix 1 balanced according to plan may not spin at all, requiring the cg to be moved rearward slightly. The benefits far outway the negatives, with the penetration you mentioned, increased lateral stability and roll rate, and smooth control "feel". I'm a third of the way through with a scratch-built "1" Looking forward to it......Mark

jonlowe

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http://www.precisionaerocomposite.com/

SkyKnight

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Thank you!

kingaltair

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Keep us posted on your "1", and post a picture(s). I still have most of the 35+ y.o. templates I made for my original Phoenix 1, and building a new one is toward the top of my project list.

GM1

I had a Phoenix 6 1/2. It was a Phoenix 6 with the horizontal stab repositioned to reduce (eliminate) some roll coupling. I loved that model. It had the sexiest lines and flew extremely well. It died an ignoble death, had a retract failure and the model went off the runway and hit a post. I had just purchased a Phoenix 8 so I never rebuilt it. I wish I had it now and would install a YS 91 with muffler.
Gordie

jlkonn

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I had a Phoenix 6 in the early '80s.
I bought it from a fellow club member in SE Texas when I couldn't get an 8. Seemed they were always out of stock or backordered. I thought the 8 was the most graceful looking of it's time. Plus I loved the name Phoenix. I had a logo all designed to have on an 8 but I never got one. The 6 I had used a gel coated fuselage. It had a "hook" in the tail I didn't recognize until I had built and flown it. I had 100's of flights on the plane when I lost it hotdogging at practice for a contest the night before. I really enjoyed the plane.
Ahhhhh...those were the days!
JLK

308jockey

I bought a Phoenix Six from Port City Hobbies in Columbus, GA. $75 and it came with RHOM AIRS!!! Man I hit the mother lode on that one. After I broke the fuel soaked firwall out of it and turned it over to another modeler he was able to make a presentable ship out of it and we got many flights on it. Then one day he ran out of airspeed, altitude and ideas at the same time. If someone could put me on to a Tipo or a Phoenix or a Bootlegger I'd be happy to have one. I have the powerplants and the hardware, just need the airframe. Well, there is a Brushfire project about to begin and maybe a Tiger Tail III too.

RIck H.

v-snap

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I had the P-5 cut my teeth in pattern on it. Great flying airplane but I was to hyper to sit and really practice for pattern in my teens.

You did forget one model though. The Funex, it was a 049 pheonix with fiberglass fuse and foam cores. Flew great on a OS 10fsr

ErnieV

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I have a new in box Phoenix 8 for sale if anyone is interested. Price is $275 plus shipping

kingaltair

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I sent you a PM about your "8"--please let me know.

Duane

NM2K

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Increased sweep helps the rolling maneuvers. Unfortunately, it hurts tracking in pitch maneuvers.

nxtdoor

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I found the article in American Aircraft Modeler magazine on the Phoenix 5. It describes the differences in models up to the 5 in the series.

Jeff

kingaltair

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I found the article in American Aircraft Modeler magazine on the Phoenix 5. It describes the differences in models up to the 5 in the series.

Jeff

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Interesting----thanks Tulsa

grcourtney

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do a search on the phoenix here on rcu Jon lowe explained the differance in a thread somewhere.



gary

mmattockx

That was post #3 in this thread. Just scroll up a bit...


Mark

kingaltair

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I knew about Jon Lowe's response all along, but what was interesting to me about nextdoor's post was:

1) The Phoenix 5 plans
2) The specifics about wing area etc that add to what Jon said earlier.

I always have been interested in the evolution of the Phoenix series, and why Don Lowe made the changes he did in each succeeding version of the plane, especially about what he DIDN"T like about the Phoenix 1 that brought about all the later models. I took a picture of the first Phoenix 1 at a contest I saw him win.

I once wrote him at RCM, asking what his personal favorite of the Phoenix series was, (Phoenix 5), and why he did this and that, but he couldn't give me many specifics. The correspondence DID generate one of his monthly columns--comparing modern 2-meter pattern planes against the earlier pattern models of the 60s.

The more I've learned about the SERIES, the more I think the evolution was very informal,---he was just experimenting with wing sweep, wing area, airfoil, and stab placement in different configurations. I don't think there were formal plans drawn for most of the in-between versions.

I once met Don Lowe as a young teen, (translated "kid"), and showed him a picture of my very first scratch-built plane--a Phoenix 1. He just gave me a little smile, that's all I remember. I'd still like to sit down with him for an hour or so and "pick his brain"about the early Phoenix models. I've been to a couple Don Lowe Masters, but didn't have the nerve to try to get a one-on-one interview---with the contest named after him and all--he was kind of busy

Duane

sjmoreno77

Well, at last I found a place for Phoenix questions. Does anybody know where can I get a Phoenix 7, 8, 9, 10 (kit or plans) I flew this plane in Ohio during the nationals and it gave me a 5th place (to me that was awesome), I loved the plane and now after the years I would like to get one.

Steve

gltruett

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Steve,

Phoenix 8 is available, email or pm me.

George T

rcflyer1970

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I'm in the process of restoring my old Phoenix 6 (I think it's a 6) installing new fiberglass fuse and new OS VF61, wings still decent so I'm refurbishing it.