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KAOS AND RELATED PLANES AND INFO

Old 03-08-2015, 08:33 AM
  #801  
Mustang Fever
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I have a Precision Cut parts kit for the RCM Super Kaos, and the plans, along with a canopy. Anyone interested? I think the kit cost me over $100 with shipping. Yours for $50 + shipping, plans and all. Cadillac Michigan (49601)
Old 03-08-2015, 08:44 AM
  #802  
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Originally Posted by tomclark
No. It's a built up wing with a D-tube and cap strips. A second version was built about 25 years later - also a built up wing.
which kaos is that?

Last edited by Falcon6667; 03-08-2015 at 08:52 AM.
Old 03-08-2015, 06:31 PM
  #803  
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Bob,
Is that a 60 size kaos.
If it is I would like it.
Phil.

Last edited by Iflyglo; 03-08-2015 at 06:54 PM.
Old 03-08-2015, 07:12 PM
  #804  
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Yes, it's a 60 size, designed for retracts.
Old 03-09-2015, 06:02 AM
  #805  
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That was going to be my next build.
I was planning on scratch building, but this is too good to pass up.
I've been wanting to do this ever since I saw one of the guys at the field flying one 10 years ago.
I sent you a PM with my email.

Phil.
Old 03-09-2015, 07:38 AM
  #806  
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Dave was first to reply on the Super Kaos kit, so he got it.
Old 03-09-2015, 07:56 AM
  #807  
Mustang Fever
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Lazer Works still has the kit listed. $85 I think.
Old 03-12-2015, 05:58 AM
  #808  
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Or download the drawings from the outerzone site and scratch build your own.
Old 03-12-2015, 08:08 AM
  #809  
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Thanks, I have the plans, it'll be the original kaos.
I was planning on scratch building anyway, and thought this would speed it up. Got a couple of repairs to finish up and then this.
I found a ST 60 with muffler on fleabay which will go into it.

Phil.
Old 03-18-2015, 06:21 AM
  #810  
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Originally Posted by tomclark
Just happened to notice the Kaos Sticky, and thought you folks might enjoy seeing a Kaos I built in the early 80s. It had an 82" wingspan, weighed about 12 lbs., and flew with a piped 90. What a great flying airplane but a bit heavy. Sorry the photos are so bad but they are old.
I did build two UFOs later, one a 45 size and the second a slightly oversize 60 size.
I missed the big Kaos, and in 2007 built a similar plane that is used for my avatar.
Soon will scratch build a 2 meter Kaos with a slightly thinner wing and powered by a 1.40 ST.
Update for all you Kaos lovers:

I finished the 2-meter Kaos a couple of weeks ago and have flown it 6 flights so far. WOW!

I always wanted a big pattern plane like the current models - until checking the price of the kits. Being a thrifty kind of guy, and a scratch builder, I just updated a Kaos plan from the Outerzone, and the results are amazing. By the way, cost of balsa and ply was $59. Total cost of airframe ready-to-fly $105.

Finished specs: 78" span, 78.5 length, 8.1 lbs., ST 2300 (1.41 2c) Wing area 1030. Wing loading 18.1

Wing is 14% root and 12% tip, more like the current pattern planes. The thinner wing takes less power to pull through the air.

Due to the light weight of the Kaos landings are still very slow, yet the plane is the most powerful plane I have ever flown. What a blast!

If any of you Kaos lovers want to have some serious fun, blow up a Kaos and have at it. It will become your favorite sport flyer…

Build thread is here.
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Last edited by tomclark; 03-18-2015 at 07:36 AM.
Old 03-18-2015, 07:11 AM
  #811  
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Nice job, Tom.
Old 03-18-2015, 11:45 AM
  #812  
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Love the built-up fuselage. Was that original on the Kaos? Definitely a way to keep the weight down and the balance forward.
Old 03-18-2015, 12:37 PM
  #813  
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I believe Kaos kits were all slab sided. I started using stick construction as it seems to be just as solid, yet far lighter than normal - especially compared to the light-ply fuselages so prevalent today. I have built many planes in this manner and they have held up well, and the cost savings is significant.
Old 03-18-2015, 01:31 PM
  #814  
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Wow! Sir... I must say that is fantastic... You have brought the Kaos series up to modern day standards while keeping the series' essence of simplicity and practice/workhorse aerobatic platform intact. WELL DONE! Find a way to draw plans and/or kit it and like Kevin Costner would say, they will come...
Old 03-18-2015, 04:16 PM
  #815  
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Originally Posted by RC YEAGER
Wow! Sir... I must say that is fantastic... You have brought the Kaos series up to modern day standards while keeping the series' essence of simplicity and practice/workhorse aerobatic platform intact. WELL DONE! Find a way to draw plans and/or kit it and like Kevin Costner would say, they will come...
Thanks for the nice comments…
Produce a kit? Dream on. The links in my last two threads already show step-by-step construction, where to get free plans for a Kaos 90 that you can blow up to any size you wish, and links to a dozen photos of other stick built planes built in the same way. Afraid you will just have to do the rest of the fun yourself to get a big Kaos. How about a 150" one? 100" one? I just wanted a full size pattern plane for fun flying. Nothing flies like a big Kaos.
Photo: First landing.
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Old 03-18-2015, 05:28 PM
  #816  
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"The links in my last two threads already show step-by-step construction, where to get free plans for a Kaos 90 that you can blow up to any size you wish..."

Oky Doky! Just saying... Seems a bit more was done here than just a blown up Kaos 90, as some dimensions and shapes seem altered from the Kaos 90 outline. I'll search for the threads... Sorry... Just cameback to RC after 30 years hiatus (well, had a very brief taste of RC and RCU at about 2005 but was really short, just a few months and 8 to 10 flights) so I hadn't seen the threads. This time I'm all in...
Old 03-20-2015, 09:05 PM
  #817  
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Originally Posted by tomclark
Update for all you Kaos lovers:

I finished the 2-meter Kaos a couple of weeks ago and have flown it 6 flights so far. WOW!

I always wanted a big pattern plane like the current models - until checking the price of the kits. Being a thrifty kind of guy, and a scratch builder, I just updated a Kaos plan from the Outerzone, and the results are amazing. By the way, cost of balsa and ply was $59. Total cost of airframe ready-to-fly $105.

Finished specs: 78" span, 78.5 length, 8.1 lbs., ST 2300 (1.41 2c) Wing area 1030. Wing loading 18.1

Wing is 14% root and 12% tip, more like the current pattern planes. The thinner wing takes less power to pull through the air.

Due to the light weight of the Kaos landings are still very slow, yet the plane is the most powerful plane I have ever flown. What a blast!

If any of you Kaos lovers want to have some serious fun, blow up a Kaos and have at it. It will become your favorite sport flyer…

Build thread is here.
Tom, please post this in the other Pattern forum too. It should give some folks a bit to chew on. I agree, the guys that fly 2 m pattern have sorta gotten used to paying 1500+ for composite airframes. This should show some in the lower classes at least, that you can fly full 2 meter pattern and don't have to break the bank. Good job.

And BTW, if you ever wanted to play with gasoline, stick the OS GT33 up front along with an apc 20x10.5 and really have a blast. It puts out about 75% more than the ST2300. The model doesn't need the power but you could fly at half throttle much of the flight and get fantastic gas milage. Some of us are just now beginning to play with the new Glow Plug for gasoline. Performance is not any different than ignition at least right now when it is still cooler. This plug is very interesting.....Running glow of course is familiar, but running gasoline on glow is very new.
Old 03-21-2015, 08:41 AM
  #818  
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Tom,
Great job on the Kaos. I am curious about your engine selection. The St 2300 has taken something of a bad rap over the years. What was your experience with the break-in?
What prop, fuel and plug are you using? Any trouble with throttle transition?
Thanks for your input.
Craig
Old 03-21-2015, 09:42 AM
  #819  
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Matt and Craig,

$1500 for one plane, before the hardware, radio, and engine???
You are welcome to post a link to my build thread on the thread you are talking about, and chat it up a bit. The Kaos is a very popular plane for an old dog.

I am a cheapskate. Love the hobby, and big airplanes, scratch built nearly 80 airplanes over 40+ years, and have always enjoyed the fact that planes can be built for peanuts compared to what some spend for ARFs. I don't think I spent that much on my whole fleet (not counting engines and radio gear.)

15? years ago I went to watch a pattern meet in Orlando. Couldn't believe the price of the planes. One guy there was selling his own kit, and was flying a ST 2300 in it, due to the high price of the other engines. He flew about the same as the other competitors, and ever since I have wanted to get around to this project.

Love the idea of the new gas engines, but not the near $500 price. I'll switch to gas when the prices come down. (Also not wanting to have to carry two flight boxes to the field!)

The ST 2300 was purchased for an Ultra Sport kit I built maybe 10 years ago. It took about a gallon to break in before it was reliable - lots of dead sticks. Didn't like how heavy the plane flew, pulled the engine and hung the plane from the shop ceiling. Engine lay in the drawer until I recently saw this post on the Tower web site. I'm sure they will like the publicity.That's when I decided to pull the engine out of retirement and build the Kaos. Would of rather had another OS 1.60 but already had this engine.

I'm running an APC 16-10. Mid range is ok, but still running the engine a bit rich. Oh, ran a few drops of Pyroil through the carburetor when the engine was running on the test stand. Read somewhere in the past how that carburetor cleaner seems to help old engines…

PS: Today posted more about the second time flying the Kaos on the build thread.



This is the G2300 from SuperTigre.
Note: This engine has G20 stamped on the side of crankcase.
*** 3-YEAR Warranty ***
FEATURES
Side exhaust (Muffler is unique to the G2300 Non-Swing Style)
Steel cylinder and lightweight piston
Stronger yet lightweight 1-piece crankcase
Dual ball bearing-supported crankshaft
Ringed piston
Front-mounted carb
INCLUDES
Muffler (non-swing), muffler screws, muffler gasket, assembled
engine, manual, parts diagram, warranty card & glow plug (FOXG1400)
REQUIREMENTS
Propeller: 16x8, 18x8, 18x10
Glow Fuel: Minimum of 18% high quality oil by volume in fuel,
Nitro content should be between 5-15%.
SUPERTIGRE Recommends Fuel with 18% oil MINIMUM.
Large Fuel tubing-(GPMQ-4133)
SPECIFICATIONS
Bore: 32.5mm (1.280")
Stroke: 28mm (1.102")
Displacement: 1.410 cu. in. (23.11cc)
Weight with muffler: 38oz (1077g)
Weight without muffler: 31oz (897g)
RPM Range: 2,000-12,600 RPM
Horsepower Rating: 3.7 BHP at 12,600 RPM
Width between centers of mounting holes: 60mm (2.36")
Length between centers of mounting holes: 25mm (.98")
Width of crankcase excluding mounting flanges: 49mm (1.93")
Length from backplate to front of drive washer: 117.5mm (4.63")
Height from bottom of crankcase to top of head: 117.5mm (4.63")
Crankshaft size: 5/16-24 (6/14/99 JL)
Suggested prop size: 18x8, 18x10
Carb base: 17mm OD 12mm ID
Exhaust port (inside-top to bottom): 10mm
Exhaust port (inside-front to rear): 25mm
Exhaust port (outside-top to bottom): 14.2mm
Exhaust port (outside-front to rear): 59.9mm
Carb Settings: H-2-turns out from closed position.
L- Take carb off, rotate and look at bottom side.
Turn trottle until wide open, set tip of low end
needle half-way across cat eye.

FOR USING Aluminum SPINNERS YOU MUST HAVE THE SPECIAL NUT ASSEMBLY
WHICH IS GPMQ4584 or TRUQ3060 or DAVQ9524 for 2Ω" spinners
or DAVQ6524 for 3" spinners.
Muffler screws that hold muffler to engine are 4x50mm.
The long threaded rod that goes through the muffler is 3x190mm
upaxy1/23/99
Running: The 2300 has been run extensively on many different
prop/fuel/plug/muffler combos. The engine provides the most power
with the least amount of fuss as follows:
Mount engine to permit the tank to absolutely center on the carb
AND have the aft end of the tank at approx. 12" aft from the
spraybar (or less distance). Use the medium glow plug.
And This Is A Must-when selecting any muffler you must restrict
the exhaust if necessary, to permit a very broad easily
adjusted needle. This requires about Ω psi pressure OR about
what you get with the stock muffler and one exhaust outlet.
Set the needle for full throttle, max power. With the model held
straight up-set the idle next with the engine running at
about 2000 RPM to give a clean response. Finally, set the idle
speed. Avoid pumps or regulators.
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Last edited by tomclark; 03-23-2015 at 04:46 AM.
Old 03-21-2015, 10:32 AM
  #820  
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Very nice build Tom! I really like your stick-built method. I may have to get busy and scratch a few planes soon . I'm getting ready to start a Kaos 90 from a Eureka short kit, so maybe we can compare numbers when its done?
Old 03-23-2015, 01:32 PM
  #821  
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Originally Posted by RDJeff
Very nice build Tom! I really like your stick-built method. I may have to get busy and scratch a few planes soon . I'm getting ready to start a Kaos 90 from a Eureka short kit, so maybe we can compare numbers when its done?
Hey Jeff, I was going to say come on over and we can fly them together - and then I saw where you live… Never mind. Guess we will have to chat about it here.

I am finally finishing an 84" Hots I started back in 2008, but then going to build a Twist 90. I can just never build to the plans like others do.
Old 04-06-2015, 05:53 PM
  #822  
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Originally Posted by tomclark
Matt and Craig,

$1500 for one plane, before the hardware, radio, and engine??? SNIP
.
1500 is on the low side actually. Some are paying 5K+ for the Japanese woodies. Nice models but why??

Anyway, the Kaos was one my faves 40 years go. I learned to fly pattern with one. A couple years ago I saw the BIG CHAOS by Joe Bridi and bought the kit. Today I started to take a close look at the kit. It just looks like Joe just increased the wing and stab and all of the wood dimensions and made it for a 120 -180- size. But it looks like he kept the fuse nearly unchanged dimensionally. Just thicker wood. Construction is like a brick outhouse....way way over designed. The model will be powered with a Valley View RC 40cc twin cylinder on twin pipes. Also rather than use all the heavy blocks and hard wood for the gear, retracts would be great on it. The one piece wing just begs to be converted to a plug in set-up.

I suppose it's gonna be a MOSTLY CHAOS with a few mods to suit my taste
Old 04-06-2015, 09:05 PM
  #823  
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Hey Matt,

That sounds like an interesting variation on the Kaos! A twin 40 cc with plug-in wings - nice. Are you planning on keeping the 300% thick foils...

I went down to 14% from the originals something which lends itself well to a plug-in approach as it leaves some fuselage below the wing on which the panel can make contact.

Where do you plan to put the pipes? Slung right underneath the fuse? If so, then plug-in panels sound like a must. Removing one pipe each time the wing is bolted on or removed is chore enough. Having to do two pipes...

BTW, which pipes work well on that engine? I am thinking of that very engine for another 2m build. Not sure if I can get the pipes into the design though.

David
Old 04-07-2015, 11:42 AM
  #824  
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David,

300% wing thickness, LOL. It is a big fat wing, that's certain. Yet it flew great with the KB 60 up front. A thinner wing is probably better tho. I will be bashing the fuse quite a bit since it is only around 64" long. It needs to be 84". It's width is only 4 3/4" not unlike the 60 sized Kaos. The engine is not going to fit so I will be widening and deepening the fuse. Another thing certain the KAOS has a unique look to it. Completely different than current crop of pregnant whales prevalent in Pattern today. And folks, apologies in advance for this discussion since this is the Classic Forum while my scribble is not.

The exhaust will be coming out to the bottom with the jugs sideways so the pipes will be mounted underneath. I have a set of ES Composites 26G carbon pipes which can go on anything between 15cc and 30cc. They were about 160$ each. A bit pricey but worth it to me. Craftsmanship second to none, quiet, and supremely light (about 5 ounces for the pair). I think MACS PRO makes ally pipes for 20cc gas. Heavier but much less expensive. BTW, the Valley View RC engine is not the only 40cc twin available. DLE also makes one and folks seem happy with that make. When I bought mine, the price was right.
Old 04-15-2015, 07:58 PM
  #825  
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EXCAP232,

I love my Kaos glad to have found this tread!

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