dbodenheimer

After a very, very long time out of the hobby, I have decided to get my feet wet again. Back in the day... <chuckle> way back.... I flew Mach I's.... retracts and Webra speed. Well, I know times have changed, but I'm thinking of building a couple of these to compete in SPA. I know they are legal, but I'm wondering how much leeway I have with the design? As much as I like the trike gears and retracts, I understand that I have to leave them out to fly. Also, my local fields are all grass now and small wheels, retracts and grass aren't always the best of friends. Can I make the Mach I a taildragger and still be legal? I'm thinking that with the new light building technology (vac bag wings, etc.) that I might be able to keep the weight down enough to use one of my old Webra's. Thoughts???

I've attached a picture of a pair of Mach I's that my dad and I flew back in the 70's


If you haven't flown one of these monsters before.... Hmmmmm they give the term 'On Rails' a whole new meaning...

I'm also considering scaling this bird up to 2M and try my hand at the new pattern.. <Mad Scientist chuckle>

Dave

Bruce Underwood

Dave: Wish you had this message on the SPA Discussion list...so more of the SPA membership could see it and reply to it.
We'd love to have you on the SPA Discussion list....you may join thru the SPA webpage at:
www.seniorpattern.com
or send an e-mail to: [email protected]
in the body of the e-mail just type:
Join Discussion "your name" <your email address>
it will automatically respond if you're successfull. There are 84 members now...two international, rest USA, mostly in
the Southeast. Some type, most just "snipe" and enjoy the "jawin' that goes on from time to time there.

Yes, the MACH 1 (Norm Page design) would be a good SPA bird....(loved your photos you included of your and Dad's).

Sure, you may build as a taildragger, Most of them on the circuit are TD's now what with the "taxi-to-the-hanger" no
longer in the patterns, no need to haul around a nose gear and maybe another servo. Just a good 5/32nd wire gear
toward the Leading edge and a good steerable tail wheel will do the job. That's what I use in my Daddy-Rabbits,
Phantom-1's and am now doing a building project on Chidgey's Tigertail...and will use that setup. As far as mods go,
just keep it looking like the plans called for originally, our Board realizes most of them nowadays are lengthened in
the aft section to accomodate the heavier engines (mostly 4 S O.S. 90's) so a modeler doesn't have to load down
the fuse rear with a bunch of ugly lead. Lengthen it some, if you'd like, just keep it moderate and looking much like
the original. If you use your Webra .60, you probably want to stick to Norm's original specs...and with some good
light balsa you'll come in at a very respectable weight.

My thanks to RCU for automatically "flagging" me of your' input here and I sincerely hope this has been a help. I
think I saw you are in Florida.....we've several members down in the Sunshine State.....used to have some good
SPA meets there in Pensacola. Hope you'll build your' modified MACH-1 and get with us for the SPA fun.

Sincerely, Bruce Underwood SPA 15 Pres. Guntersville, AL
[email protected]

kr9x

My Feedback: (7)

Cool photo Dave! SPA has a 10% design change rule. Yes you can use conventional landing gear. There are several SPA members here in Central Florida and we have talked about getting together in Ocala to fly, just fun stuff to start and get to know each other. The Mach I was a great design from Norm Page whom I met while living on Chicago's south side, there use to be pattern contests at SAC field which was about 15 miles from my home.

A two meter Mach I would be interesting! I am in the process of enlarging three old pattern designs in hopes of making them fly a little better -- kind of a tweener from old school pattern and the new two meter ships. These would qualify in the Novice SPA competition only where there are no regulations on design or engine size.

Visit the SPA on their web page at WWW.SENIORPATTERN.COM and spend a little time there. All the info you need is there.

Jon in Kissimmee

kr9x

My Feedback: (7)

Hay Bruce!! Is this called a double - double on SPA??

Jon

Bruce Underwood

Sun. 09/03/06 12:41 PM CDT........well, hello Jon Weichbrodt in Kissimmee...hope all is well down there, I just
answered the e-mail after changing from Sunday clothing to shorts (flying gear)...loading the PHANTOM-1 in the
car and going to the field to meet a few modelers here for an afternoon of flying....getting ready for the 1 day SPA
contest in Asheville, NC in two weeks. Wish you were closer so you could fly with us here.

You bet, that was a DOUBLE for the answer on the MACH-1.....good to hear from you...hope all is well down there
and you guys can get some SPA action going down there. The new 2007-08 patterns are in the current Newsletter
on the website.....just a few changes, more in the SPORTSMAN pattern than NOVICE and ....well, there's two inverted
maneuvers in the EXPERT pattern now.....they should be interesting.

Gone to the field for Sunday flying.......best wishes in the Sunshine state.

Bruce

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Hi Bruce,

Glad to see you on the forum! This RCU forum was setup for flyers that love the classics and the growth in the last year has been amazing. You all are welcome to stop by anytime and share what’s happing in the SPA world. One of the major advantages of the RCU forum is how the threads are organized and archived with unlimited ability to post pictures. How about giving the RCU “classic pattern� forum a plug in your next newsletter and the website. Lots of neat stuff here!

Bruce Underwood

I will be GLAD to give the forum a plug in the coming SPA newsletter.......matter of fact....(I assume I am corresponding with
the forum master)...let me encourage YOU to write the PLUG......(sort of make it a "feature") with YOU as the guest
writer....maybe a full page of How the Classic Pattern Forum got its' start? What effect the enormous coverage Model
Aviation has devoted to SPA and Classic Pattern flying lately has had on its' "rebirth"?

Links to the forum.....tips for the beginning computer user, which most of us are, etc. etc.

I would GENIUNELY appreciate it...perhaps prepared as a WORD Text file and sent me to my e-mail address. The next
issue will be the NOV/DEC issue....deadline for material could be as late as Oct. 20th...naturally I would prefer it as soon
as you can prepare it...so I can assemble it (I use MICROSOFT PUBLISHER).....send you a sample of it (let me have
your personal name, location, e-mail address, etc) and if corrections need being made, that will be a good time to do it.

Like in my local CIVITAN club.....when a member comes up with a brilliant idea.....HE gets named Chairman of a committee
to initiate same. Thanks in advance for chairing the committee to prepare a newsletter feature on RCU's Classic Pattern Forum.

I would love to preface the article with a good mug photo....and perhaps your' computer workstation...or whatever would be
timely to the subject. Gratefully,
Bruce Underwood SPA 15 Pres.
1412 Patterson St.
Guntersville, AL 35976
[email protected]

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Good idea Bruce and I’d be happy to send you an article for the SPA newsletter. I’m not the “forum master� but the “classic Pattern� forum was my idea and I did the work with RCU and the interested pattern flyers to make it happen. I’m very pleased that it has become such a great success.

dbodenheimer

Wow, I'm very impressed at the responses! I'm very excited about building another one or two or three of these birds. Based on my past experience with this bird, I'm going to increase the elevator area about 10% by moving the hinge line forward a bit. Even though there was some roll couple due to the rudder hinge line, I think I'll just opt to mix that out. Man, are these new radios neat or what!!!! Wing wise, I'm going to drastickly increase the ailerons so that I can use very very small surface movements. I'm going to vacuum bag the wings and stab using west system epoxy. I really believe I can save a bunch of weight over the way we used to do it. I'm thinking that I will monokote the wings, but I'm a little troubled because I've heard that Monokote has gone downhill recently, and my most recent experience with UltraKotre was a nightmare. I would really like to bring this bird to the flightline at around 6 1/2 lbs. I'm still leaning towards the Webra for power if I can keep it that light. There is something about hearing that engine unload from 12 grand to around 15 grand or so in the air, oh yea....

Has anyone heard of a set of CAD plans for the Mach I? I'd like to scale this thing up to 2m, and doing it via CAD would sure be easier. Plus I can use my CNC mill to cut the parts. <wink>

dbodenheimer

Jon, I'm just east of you in Melbourne. Where do you fly over that way? Maybe I can get over to check things out!

Bruce, When is the first SPA meet next year? I figure it will take that long to get my thumbs loosened up enough.

Paternguy

My Feedback: (1)

I am working on a set of CAD plans for it. I will let you know when I am done.

dbodenheimer

Great!!!!!!

kr9x

My Feedback: (7)

Dave

I've been to the swap meet at Melbourne, Boy Scout camp, several times over the last five years. Are you a member of that club or another?

I fly with the Osceola Flyers -- www.osceolaflyers.com -- here in Kissimmee on the West shore of Lake Toho. The field is small, 350 X 50 grass, with a water hazard on the East end of the runway, the lake. The first couple of landings test your skill and mental toughness!! I've been with the club for about 6 years now and have flown several fast planes off the grass.

If you plan to come over and fly, let me know as far in advance as you can so I can request the day off. I work at Universal Studios in Pyro and video production so it can be tough to get off.

Jon

dbodenheimer

Jon,

Yes I belong to the Melbourne club. We have a field in Viera, but we are losing it in October. They are suposed to be building a field out on 192 between you and me, but you never know when that will be done.

I am very excited about getting back into the swing of things... Put a few flights on my Ultra stick today. Had a good conversation with Gary Wright. Very interesting guy. He was testing a new 3D plane. It flew awesome! Of course his skill helped a bunch too.

Next time I'm going to be at the park, I'll let you know and we can hook up! I'll also let you know next time I can come over and fly.

What are you flying in SPA?

spbyrum

Jon and Dave

I have a list of other likely suspects in central Florida. If you will email me, I'll send it along. There is a core developing there which could lead to some contest action.

jjpetro

8178 and Bruce,
I thought you guys would like to know, I regularly send my customers to the Classic Pattern Forum and SPA (of course, many of my customers are already on the forum and SPA). There is a wealth of knowledge and experience in the forum that I think is valuable to many of my acquaintances. Especially the build threads and the loads of pictures we are allowed to post. In my opinion, this forum is invaluable for preserving some of the design thoughts, nuances, and history of the planes we have come to enjoy.

Thanks RCU!

By the way, I'll be in Asheville. I know Bruce will be, are you going 8178? It's "just up the road" from you.

Bruce Underwood

Jeff: Duane has a nice reminder of the "raffle-prize" you are supplying for next weekend on the SPA Discussion List. This
is a GREAT gesture on your part. I am really looking forward to meeting you and the folks I haven't met yet in Asheville
this coming week-end.

Jeff, hope you got a look at the SPA ELECTRIC TAURUS from your kit that was featured in the Sept/Oct SPA newsletter, I
was at the Judging Clinic that day here in Guntersville, AL when Sid Austin, the owner of it, flew the SPA EXPERT pattern
with it. What a thrill! It was such a diversion from hearing the IC engines. Of course, Sid is extremely careful with the
battery packs for that airplane...actually carries an "ammo case" (like rifle or machine gun bullets were stored in in WW II)
to carry the battery packs in. They are that kind that has been responsible for many fires and he just doesn't want to
take chances. I Don't blame him.

Have a good week. I must do my morning radio show here on Friday morning...but will depart afterwards and have heard
it'll probably take about 6 hours driving to make it...so should be arriving mid to later afternoon Friday afternoon.

Best Wishes, Bruce
SPA 15 NSRCA 493
AMA 5977

bicwig

Hello everyone. I'm Jim, Dave's brother. I also flew Mach 1's in the 70's, although I'm MUCH younger than he is. I also am impressed by the responses that he has received on this thread. If I can be of any help with needed info, just let me know. I've got a fiberglass fuse that is in great shape - so naturally, we are going to cut it up to make a mold.

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

bicwig, When do you think your mold will be ready, what's your plans?
How about posting a photo or two of the fuse you have?

Ron

bicwig

Here you go. Forgive the hanger dust on it. Dave will be getting the mold ready. I'm pretty sure it will be after the first of the year, so we may have an operational Mach 1 by next spring.[img][/img]

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

bicwig, So do you plan to make just a couple or a few extra so all your
mach one buddies on rcu can get one?

Ron

bicwig

OOOOHHHH. So now I have RC Universe buddies???? That good with me, I can use all the buddies I can get. Just don't bail on me when I order something REALLY expensive and FORGET to tell the wife. Hee-hee. Actually, I believe that we are going to make a few, and I'm sure if someone wants one, there will be some lying around.

dbodenheimer

Ron,

I'm sure We will have a few extra.... I'm going to start with the wings... carbon fiber and Kelvar.... skin hinges..... slightly larger surfaces, and I think we are going to convert it to a taildragger. At least in some versions. We might do a standard retract version, most likely with Spring Air Retracts. The fuselage that Jim has is in really good shape and I like the wing fillets. trying to decide how to handle the horizontal stab though. I'm thinking about molding in fillets there too.

We will keep you posted on our progress.


Dave

AMA 1540 (Yes, that means I'm older than dirt)

bicwig

Told you he was MUCH older than me!!!!!!!!!!!

Bootalini

DBodenheimer, you mention a roll couple inherent to the original design. Do you recall which way the coupling was? Roll in direction of applied rudder or the opposite? I'm also thinking of building an enlarged version of this classic (electric/taildragger) and if so, I would elect to stray from the recommended plan dihedral to counter the coupling. I've used mixing in the past to counter coupling problems and have always felt that it was a band-aid solution.

Paternguy, I'm also interested in plans for an enlarged 2M version. Keep me in mind! Any idea who could cut accurate cores (including an airfoil vertical stab) for a non-standard project such as this?

Jeff