flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hey Chuck,
Not nuts - just interested!! 'Cause if you're nuts then I might be too
First, some clarification on the OS part numbers for the Hanno Special series of engines:
17804 - MK I - no header
17806 - MK I - header included
17840 - MK II ring - no header
17841 - MK II ring - header included
17842 - MK II ABC - no header
17843 - MK II ABC - header included

Next, differences between the MK I and the MK II:
Rumors from a variety of sources (including the K-Factor) indicated that the MK IIs had new porting, pump and carb. Bill Baxter (from Hobbico) has commented on the fallacy of these rumors here on RCU - probably in one of Chuck's threads listed above!
There are only 5 different parts that differentiate the 2 engines (assuming the MK II is an ABC; not the ringed version):
cylinder head, connecting rod, piston pin retainer, mixture control valve assembly and the 6P carburetor. NOTE that the carburetor has a different part number because of the sub assembly (mixture control valve). Timing changes would have occurred in the liner or the crankshaft.
I did find one brief report on the MKII ringed in the K-Factor which stated that owner had broken his engine in with a 13x10 and was running a 14x10 prop (both APC) - wow!
Some information for YS owners: YS longstroke - the ideal pipe length (exhaust flange to first baffle in the Hatori 650 pipe) was 17.5". Pipe length for the YS AR was 16.5" on 15% nitro using K&B 1L or Enya #3 plug and 12.5x11 or 12x12 or 13x10 apc prop.
YS AR running an APC 12.5x11 on #1 Magnum fuel (16.5" pipe length) produced 10,400 rpm.
I am running 18.5" length on my Hanno with 12x11 or 13x9 or 13x10 (15% nitro and K&B 1L plug). According to my research; 18-18.5" was the ideal pipe length for the Hanno (any version).

I think that pretty much covers the information I have on the Hanno, YS AR, etc!
Will Bartlett

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

flywilly...You are Tha Man!! Excellent!!

Yeah...As Jeff mentioned above...I want to say thanks to all of those who post here too...Not only this thread but the whole forum...You guys are great and I'm learning soooo much!!

I think I occasionally break the rules a little...I have a habit of posting "engine questions" in this forum and stuff like that...But the reason being...This is where the knowledge is!! Plain and Simple...

Thanks Ya'll Soooo Much...

Chuck

dvzuid

Hey Guys,

took the engine out of my Cursor to check the serial number. It's 2733
I have not run it as yet, neither have I flown the Cursor as I'm chicken ! [] I know I should fly them to really appreciate them, but I prefer flying my 2 x 2 Alliance than risking these two pieces of history. Man, some difficult decisions have to be made in this life

dhal22

well put there, dvzuid.

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hey DVZUID,
beautiful cursor!! I understand the dilemma, but you have to climb the mountain to appreciate the view .
My 2 cents

Will Bartlett

dvzuid

Hey Will,

that's very true, guess I'll just have to go ahead and fly it.
Will let you guys know how it flies, when the weather get's a bit warmer over here.

Dirk

gene webber

My Feedback: (3)

Hey dvzuid,

Go fly that airplane, who are you saving it for the next owner? If you don't fly it you'll always ask yourself "I wonder how good that plane would fly". It is better to have flown and lost, than to have never flown at all. Don't deny your airplane it's soveriegn purpose : FLIGHT

Gene

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

Beautiful Cursor!!

I just wanted to mention that aircraft is still available:
http://aztecair.net/Aztec1.htm

vintageflyer

My Feedback: (1)

I'm saving up for the Summit III. Hopefully have it in Febuary. Chuck, I know you also want a Summit. Have you heard anything about Aztec's kit? I realize the moulds came from PAC, but how is the craftsmanship?

DM

dvzuid

Hey navav2002,

do you happen to know, how the picture of my Cursor got on Aztec Air's website so quick ? I don't really mind, but it would have been nice, to have been told before, don't you agree?[]
You think they'll give me a free kit , for using a picture of my model to promote theirs , especially after reading this on their homepage:
© All images and content contained herein are the sole property of Aztec Airplane Factory and Graphic Gu'Roo

I won't mind flying it then, knowing I would have a spare kit, don't you think ?

Dirk

vintageflyer

My Feedback: (1)

Looks like your plane has been moonlighting on the side . I think she's getting a bit ancy stored in the hanger.

DM

vintageflyer

My Feedback: (1)

I was talking to Dave Shadel about the Hanno liners. He says the "RF" is exactly the same as the Hanno, with the execption of a little bit of porting done to the top of the exhaust ports.
I broke my engine down and did notice that the exhaust IS opened up quite a bit. So much that the case is also "ported" for this.

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

Ya Know...Aztec is probably 20miles away from me...I have yet to go buy there and check it out... [&o]

Same with Mike Hesters shop (Custom Airframes of America which makes the Black Magic)...

The Only excuse I have is that I want "one of each"...And I know me...My will power is next to nothing...So I have been avoiding them "on purpose" if you know what I mean...

But no I havn't actually seen them in person...I've e-mailed him a couple of times...I'm assuming he knows what's up...He's actually been at this for a while...I'd rather let someone else (Him or Dan) give your that story...But I'd "expect" to see top notch stuff...

Anyone got any experience???

Maybe I need to go to Walmart and buy a bottle of "self control"...Then I could swing by there sometime...I'd actually Really Like too!!

Have Fun...

Chuck

P.S. Oh Yeah...Great news on the engine checking out!!

vintageflyer

My Feedback: (1)

Oh Man. You have more will power than I do. If they were That close to me I'd definately would be there.. Plasic in hand!!

About that Hanno. I haven't put it in the Aurora yet. I'm going to order a set of ceramics from Boca as you sugested earlier. Their not cheap though [:@].

I really wish Shadel would reconsider and run another set of piston/liners. I really want to get some more of these engines, but now I'm a little hesitant.

DM

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

DM, I had a deal working from a local guy, to get a hanno engine, so I ordered the piston/liner from dave just incase I needed it, sorry to say the deal feel through, its still in the package if you want it I'll take what I paid for it $102.00 shipped to you.

Pete

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

rv7driver...PM Sent!!

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

-------------------


I am having a similar problem when it comes to using my Saito R5 5-cylinder radial engine. I don't want to be standing over a smoking hole in the ground and seeing my precious engine all broken to pieces. I'm not usually like this, but some engines warp the brain, or at least mine, which most will agree that was pretty warped in the first place. <G>

Your model is absolutely beautiful. Thanks for posting the pic.

I don't have a Hanno engine yet, though I'm looking for one. But I did pick up another engine that I wanted slightly more. Yes, even more than a Hanno. I picked up a new in box Enya .60 XF-4 Al Chrome engine with geared pump and special carb. I couldn't afford one when they were hot and, surprisingly, I got it for a song recently.

I am keeping my eyes open for an excellent condition Hanno, or a pumped OS.61RF.


Ed Cregger

wbrents

My Feedback: (21)

In response to navav2002's post regarding Aztec and the Cursor, I have an update.

George Truett replied to my email query concerning his Phoenix 8. He stated he was in the Middle East and would not be returning home until at least April, at which time he hopes to be able to crank out some kits.

So we will have to wait a while for those beautiful planes.

Jeff Worsham

My Feedback: (28)

Hello Will,
Since this post I've acquired #2594 (Pink Head- must be kin to Chuck's!), and a Hanno model 17806 with unmarked case (Great Planes warranty replacement I bought from Gene). Gene was very kind to include the box and documentation which came with that motor, posted here for reference. The exploded views show the various parts that were different between the RF-P and the Hanno Special.

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

Thanks Jeff!!! Congrats on the Engines!!

jaycey

If anyones interested, mines up for sale.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MESE:IT&ih=013

Jason


Pink Head!

gene webber

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks Jeff, for putting up those Hanno documents, they are now there for the world to see. (I'm not as computer literate as most of you guys).

For those I promised copies, do you still want them or will Jeff's post be satisfactory?

Gene

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

Gene...Thank You!! As far as copies I'm good with this...No need for you to go to any more trouble...Thanks for providing them to Jeff!!

I have made a PDF is anyone wants one:
http://maxupload.com/2CEBC088

Jeff Worsham

My Feedback: (28)

Thanks ChucK! Seeing as how I *originally* got .pdf's as output from scanning, I could have saved you the trouble but wasn't smart enough to know how or where to upload them! Glad you knew though and thanks again for your help.

Roguedog

Hey all. I’m not quite sure about the differences between the Hanno I and II. But I can tell you what Clarence Lee of RCM magazine said about the first version. I thought this article would at least function as a basis of comparison for the other Hanno’s. I’ll include the article for those who wish to read it for themselves.

This is paraphrased by the way.

Several factors made the original Hanno special. The first was that they were hand assembled to better match each part for closer tolerances, instead of using the standard production measures of the time. This resulted in an engine with better performance, more power and a longer life.

The Hanno was modified to run in the 9000-11000rpm range with 11000 rpm being the top recommended rpm for the engine. Both the Hanno Special and Max RF share the same .906” bore and .945” stroke. The advantage of a long stroke engine is that when you increase the distance between the crankshaft’s centerline and crankpin, you also increase the mechanical advantage or level action of the crankshaft when the crankpin is at the 90 degree position of its rotation. Resulting in an increase in torque and lowering the rpm at which the engine will develop it’s maximum horsepower. This allows the use of a larger prop sizes, not just in diameter, but in pitch as well.

The Hanno uses the same die-cast crankcase as the 61RF, with the only exception being that the Hanno uses a larger 35mm bearing than the 61RF‘s 30mm bearing so that the rear bearing bore in the crankcase is larger.

The Hanno’s crankshaft was given a hard nickel plate finish before finish grinding for rust prevention. Unlike the standard 61RF crankshaft which had the counterweigh sides cut completely away, the Hanno crankshaft has a .043” thick full disc section next to the rear ball bearing face that O.S. refers to as an anti corrosion disc plate. [img][/img]The crankshaft timing remains the same for both the Hanno and the standard Max 61RF, opening 35 degrees after BDC and closing 50 degrees after TDC. All Hanno’s used the larger 35mm outside diameter bearing from the get go. No such thing as a small rear bearing (30mm) Hanno (really a standard Max RF).

Everything mentioned this far had to do with making the Hanno last longer. The following increased the performance over the standard Max 61RF.

The major design changes for the Hanno Special (first version) are the 61RF has an exhaust duration of 142 degrees, the Hanno’s exhaust has been raised approximately .027 for a duration of 150 degrees. This helps in the engines low end lugging ability. Higher exhaust timing would favor higher rpm operation. A further modification to the exhaust port has been the addition of notches at top of each outside corner thus increasing the torque.

The transfer port and boost port timing remain the same at 114 degrees and 104 degrees respectively for both the Hanno and standard 61RF, however, the width of the Hanno boost port has been increased from the 61RF’s .415” width to .495”.

The cylinder head for both the Hanno and the 61RF are exactly the same. No difference. Both share the same combustion chamber volume exactly. However, due to the later closing of the exhaust port , the compression ratio works out a little lower for the Hanno (8.67:1 versus 8.99:1 for the 61RF), which actually benefits lower rpm, larger prop lugging ability without preignition.

The 6P pumped carburetor has one fuel port (no return fuel port like on the 61RF-P)and actually has a smaller throat (9mm) than the 61RF’s (9.5mm) non-pumped carburetor. Larger throat sizes do benefit higher rpm operation, but at the rpm the Hanno operates at a larger throat size is not required.

Clarence Lee August 1990 R/C Modeler Magazine.