N1EDM

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By the way, which other thread was its 'rival'??

Thanks,

Bob

Free Bird

You really don't want to know!!

FB

kingaltair

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Maybe the word "rival" wasn't right...I only mean we now have more views than the NEXT one which for several years has been the Blue Angel Build thread, which was started in 2006. This thread was started in June of 2008, and has just passed the Blue Angel Build thread in "views".

There are several ways to view the threads in an RCU forum. If you click at the top of the column under "VIEWS", RCU will organize all the threads in the CLASSIC PATTERN forum by total number of views. That's all I was referring to. It is quite a feat to exceed 100,000 views...it means that the thread is better than average, informative, and popular. The guy who started the Blue Angel thread also was largely responsible for getting this CLASSIC PATTERN forum started, so we are all kindred spirits at heart. BTW...you can also see how many times a given person has responded by clicking on "replies".

I think the "rival" FB was speaking of started the so-called "Oldest Taurus of Earth..." thread, which was a direct descendant of this one, and started when he felt his theories were not being adequatelty respected. In all fairness, he has made some very good points...especially early in this thread that helped get us on the "road to discovery" about Ed and his planes.

He has been able to coax about 70,000 views out of his thread, but has contributed 63% of the replies himself. Don't mean to sound "snipy"...but there IS some "history" there. You will see it develop if you have the "fortitude" to start at the beginning and read the first 20-30 pages or so.

Duane

N1EDM

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Thanks guys,

Come to think of it, I'm on that Blue Angels thread, I belive.

Bob

kingaltair

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There are 57 subscribers to the Blue Angel Build thread which explains how the "views" jump with each post. This thread has 27 subscribers.

The Blue Angel, (or actually a clone SBA kit bought from someone else) was the pattern plane I flew back in the mid-80s, and the plane I won my first Novice contest with. It was "cool-looking" then, and it is still "cool-looking" now.

bem

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Hi,

Short color video, 10:45 - 11:10, Ed Kazmirski flying his Taurus at 1963 NATS held at Naval Air Station Los Alamitos, CA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OkJfP6ZDeA

/Bo

kingaltair

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I can't view You Tube stuff at work...looking forward to seeing it at home. It's interesting because I thought Ed skipped the NATS in 1963, getting ready for the "worlds". I don't remember ANY information about Ed at the 1963 NATS. That was the time the "carrier" photos were taken...maybe the carrier was at the NATS location. Ray, (or anyone), do you have any information about Ed at the 1963 NATS?

If Ed was there, he would have been flying the Taurus II with the swept leading edge, (straight t.e.), and mayve the "reed" Taurus from the previous year that he also took to the 1963 "worlds".

Duane

UStik

It's the same video by Sid Gates that I referenced recently (post #2482 above).

kingaltair

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So Ed DID go to the 1963 NATS to "tune up" for the "worlds". I wonder how he did? That was only one year after winning the NATS in 1962.

Duane

UStik

Ray did answer this question in post #647 at page 26. I think if Ed was on the carrier he was at the Nats as well, even if he didn't enter the event as a competitor. The movie is another indication for our assumption that Ed demonstrated the new Orbit analog proportional radio with his T2 with the thick carrier wing. Michealj2k in post #367 at page 15 said they flew demonstration flights. Could have been different days because Ed wears light trousers in the movie and dark ones on the carrier.

kingaltair

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Very impressive UStik...right down to page and post number; Cees would be proud the way you documented your references. I had always assumed Ed was NOT AT THE NATS AT ALL, because he must have been somewhere else, but if he was indeed there, why didn't he compete? He had the new plane ready to go and all, (the thick wing Taurus II). The only thing I can figure, (Cees would not be proud of my speculation, only facts, not fairy stories), was that he wasn't READY, or hadn't had enough practice time with the proportional, and he had agreed instead to promote and demonstrate the new Orbit gear with Bob Dunham instead.

Any other ideas/suppositions?

Duane

bem

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Hi,

Hard to see what radio Ed was using in the Sid Gates video. Its seems to be an Orbit since the antenna has the "thing" half way up on the antenna. Maybe ask Sid Gate what he knows? He is acitve here at RCU:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=profile&forum=1&memid=259

I know he posted in Golden Age, Vintage & Antique RC forum here at RCU yesterday.

/Bo

UStik

I wonder why these questions come up two weeks after the initial post with the video, but anyway... []

It was always only an assumption that Ed used the new proportional radio. That was because the tx box seems to be wider than high while it was the other way around with the reeds set (see [link=http://www.mccrash-racing.co.uk/sc/reeds.htm]here[/link]). In the video, the tx seems to be not that high as well, compared to Ed's hand (in the third picture).

kingaltair

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Bo

Chances are it was an Orbit prototype provided by Bob Dunham. If you look at the "Carrier Photo" above, you can see it sitting on the carrier deck next to him. Ed's prototype transmitters usually looked somewhat different than the production model that followed...even the location of the antenna might be different.

That is definitely the original T-II "original wing", which was quite thick, (I believe 22%), and still semi-symmetrical, like the original Taurus wing, only thicker. At that point he was still trying to increase drag any way he could think of in the hopes of more uniform maneuver speeds. I have that wing at home; it is EXTREMELY LIGHT at only 1lb 1oz complete. It also has open wing areas, and has a unique "truss" style of construction. Maybe I can hold it up to a bright light and photograph it for you to show the structure...it truly is unique, a "one-of-a-kind" as far as I know.

As I said much earlier, I don't believe the thick wing was all that Ed wanted; I believe this because of the very short time this wing was in use, (only the late summer and fall of 1963), and the condition of the wing itself. When you look at the wing, it is obvious it wasn't exposed to the elements, (particularly the sun) nearly as long. The white paint is less faded and yellow, and the FAI sticker on the wing is easy to read. The corresponding sticker on the Taurus II fuselage, (used with both the original and Bosch wings), has been totally faded. Remember, after being exposed to Fritz Bosch's symmetrical airfoil later at the 1963 "worlds", Ed converted the Taurus II over to the thinner, sharper leading edge, and symmetrical Bosch wing which it still has.

I would love to know exactly what Ed thought of the thick wing, and why he opted to convert the Taurus II over to a totally different wing airfoil...we can only guess that there might be such a think as TOO THICK when it comes to airfoil thickness. Still it would have been interesting to hear Ed's comments to know exactly what he thought.

Duane

bem

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Hi,

I have now asked Sid Gates to comment about his video and specifically the Ed Kazmirski part. We will se if and when he reply here (hopefully).

/Bo

kingaltair

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Weinachten shopping, I forgot to look it up later.

I tried to find the article that talked about the Taurus II having protoprtional, but couldn't find it quickly. It had to do with why Ed chose to fly the reed Taurus in the bad weather conditions in Belgium. I am sure that we decided at the time the Taurus II, (back-up) had proportional. It could have been the extremely thick wing that was the problem, not the newness of the radio. In windy conditions, I'm not sure a thick wing is the best choice.

Duane

UStik

Ah, hope you were successful!

I think it was all on page 15 of the thread. In post #361, Ray posted a pic with the caption insinuating it's the new Orbit proportional set. So the T2 should have had proportional even before the WC. I only found the Grid Leaks WC report telling that Ralph Brooke preferred the 18% airfoil model to his "22% slow job". I don't find an article telling why Ed preferred his reeds model, either. Only the pic added..

sidgates

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Bem,
I am not sure how much I can add, that was a long time ago. I did the filming personally at the '63 Nats. What you see in my 8mm film was only competition flying, I did not attend any practice sessions. I think I attended 3 days.

The "thing" is a center loading coil in the transmitter antenna. I did not remember Orbit using a coil but obviously they did. I think it is Orbit reeds, the only proportional I remember at the '63 Nats was a Jerry Pullen design, it may have been flown by Phil Kraft but not sure.

If I think of more I will comment later. If you have any specific questions let me know.

bem

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Hi Sid,
Thanks for the answer.
Since You say You only filmed competition flying and Ed Kazmirskis flying was filmed so that mean he was competing in 1963 NATS then. It has been a questionmark if he actually competed at the NATS 1963 or if he was only "showflying" at that year NATS. If I findany result list from 1963NATS Ed should be listed there also.

/Bo

kingaltair

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I think it was all on page 15 of the thread. In post #361, Ray posted a pic with the caption insinuating it's the new Orbit proportional set. So the T2 should have had proportional even before the WC.

One thing to consider...when the caption says "Taurus used to fly on 12-channel reeds", they could be referring to THAT Taurus, (the Taurus II), or the original Taurus. An observation...it is plain this model has had more than one radio...there is more than one set of mounting holes drilled, so this model could have originally flown on reeds. There could even be more than one proportional radio used...no doubt Ed tested new Orbit systems as they came out.

Duane

UStik

Yes, back in 2008/2009 we thought that there must have been a reeds set in the T2, but also both analog and digital proportional. After all the first propo in 1963 was analog and even in the 1964 season there should have been the digital propo set you now own.

RFJ

My view that Ed did not "enter" the 1963 Nats is based on the competitor list published in the November 1963 issue of RCM. This lists every entrant - all 160 of them - in all the R/C classes and Ed's name is not mentioned.

There were also a few more proportional outfits flown than Sid remembers. Space Control (18) Kraft (8) DeeBee (2) Sampey (2) ACL (2) Klientronics (1) and Digicom (3)

The Nats started on July 29th and the WCs on August 21st. Ed's reserve Taurus at the WCs was equipped with Orbit proportional.


Ray

kingaltair

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Excellent Ray

Its's interesting and strange to me that Ed was at the 1963 NATS, (like I said this was a new revelation to me), but that he didn't compete. The reasons I offered up above, (not enough practice with proportional, simply not ready, or "previous commitments", are all I can think of.

How do you know for sure that Ed's back-up Taurus II, (thick wing) was "equipped with Orbit proportional". Is it in coverage of the FAI championships? I was sure the T-II had proportional at the "worlds", and was trying to find proof, but couldn't the other day.

Duane

RFJ

This extract from the WCs report published in the November 1963 issue of RCM&E.

Ray

kingaltair

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I knew there was solid evidence for it...just didn't know where.

Ray...you are without question the finest reference person or "archivist" in the western hemisphere. No wonder you were such a highly paid member of the Simla Development Team

Of course that was "honorary pay" or "virtual pay" [8D]

My eternal gratitude
Duane