8178

My Feedback: (17)

How is the downturn in the economy impacting your “Classic Pattern” building and flying? I guess the good news the “Classics” are super low cost compared the 2M stuff.

Ram Jet

If the kits and ARFs are made overseas I would buy them now.

Bill

grcourtney

My Feedback: (1)

Not really my p-8 wuz about $1500 by the time I wuz done

jmb52760

Hasn't impacted me yet, but Cessna has layed-off 4600 so far with another 500 to 800 to be notified soon.

I would have to stop all hobby purchases if I was layed-off of course. I'd still keep building, flying and repairing but I would get creative and keep re-cycling what I have in the shop.

The gasoline motor (on a Sig Rascal 110) would definitely get more time as it is much cheaper to run. The Rascal also has a very low chance of needing repair (knock on wood).

I think I would also fly my Sig Wonder (electric) more. Has anyone ever compared the cost of running electric to nitro?

WEDJ

Thank God I bought everything I needed for the Jr Skylark before I got laid off

dhal22

i've got enough classic pattern engines and wood to keep me busy for a long time. however the wife got laid off so i will need to push back a big scale project i was going to start accumulating retracts and a radial for. fortunately, as a plumbing contractor i'm bursting at the seams with work. i haven't been to the flying field in months, let alone get much quality building time.

aerodrums

My Feedback: (2)

Hi All.

As a "lurking member" for some months now, I'll chime in here. I've been retired since 1999, been in r/c since 1964. Now that time is "no problem", the general economy is making the hobby more expense. With a very good accumulation of wood and plans and a couple of old RC City glass fuses, I'm ready to hopefully enjoy the SPA/pattern flying again.

Hopefully we won't see a large increase in fuel costs this year. The two local discount hobby stores here are working to keep fuel in stock and the prices under $15.00 for Cool Power 15%.
I'll pass on a complement to all on this great forum......please, keep up the great work and priceless information that is offered here, it's a pleasure to read ALL the posts here.

REGARDS. DAVE

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

I wonder if the recession will see an even greater increase in electric powered models...? It seems that one way or another, one can always find an AC outlet. Glow fuel? Dunno...

Then again, classic pattern and electric motors don't quite go hand in hand.

It's interesting that in oil producing countries (e.g., Venezuela) the cost of ethanol made from sugar cane in other countries (e.g., Brazil) to run cars is cheaper than gas (petrol, for those in the Europe)! I understand why - it just shouldn't make any sense.

David.

aerodrums

My Feedback: (2)

David.

With the cost of "good quality batteries" on the increase. The cost to fly a fuel pattern ship may well be slightly cheaper....who knows!! I do fly both when I can.
REGARDS. DAVE.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Hmmm...

I hadn't noticed that. My recollection is that back 20 years ago a 4s 450 mAh NiCd was a precious commodity costing well over $50. Today, a 2s 1100 mAh LiFe with considerable more sustained current capacity costs about the same. The voltage is higher and the weight is lower too.

But recessions certainly affect manufacturing. Maybe that's why the prices are going up. On the other hand, technology will soon be (or already is) shifting to new electro-chemistries and Lithium based storage will trickle down to the masses.

We'll see. In any event, like yourself, I enjoy the variety different power sources bring to the hobby.

David.

mmattockx

Gary,

What did you put in it to get up there? I'm not being a smart *****, I really would like to know.

Mark

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

My kit sales have actually gone up lately. Probably because they are small, inexpensive models. I have enough engines, plans and wood to keep me in planes for a while even if I crash a few. The things I can always use more of are servos and rx's. I might end up cannibalizing a couple of models that I don't fly very often for that sort of stuff.

David

alcarafa

Cost of glow fuel south the US border is now around $ 38.00 dlls [X(] yesssss and keeps rising every week due to exchange rate peso vs dollar, three months ago it costed $ 23 dlls there's been a 40% increase in price.

Already stoped flying big planes no more .40's or up, its sad but a reallity world economy turmoil hit us hard, on the other side started building small planes like PICORARE ( MINI TIPORARE) and now considering building a Doxilia's deception 10, this planes are fun to fly but maybe a lil too fast for my eyes now [] anyway have some balsa stock at home and couple small engines to play with.

dhal22

i'm thinking my Blue Angel build will cost a $1000 or more. the canopy and wing cores were $120 plus shipping, the wood was at least that much, spring air retracts $150, nib OS 61 ABC SF-P $250. i still need to buy the header and pipe ($100?). wheels, axles, fuel tank, engine mount, DEPS, cables, fibergass cloth, finishing materials, paint $150 or more depending on paint choice. 6 quality servos, another receiver and battery, the list is growing here.

but like 8178 said classic pattern is cheaper than 2m pattern.

AndyKunz

That almost sounds like a dare! I've got 3 projects underway right now plus helping each of my sons with their own, so it'll be a while before I'm ready to take it on.

Did you see the Kaos with an attitude thread? That's an electric. Sure looks good to me - what do you think of his flight report?

Andy

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Switching from glow to electric would be like switching from PC to Mac, for me (although, I really wish I had a Mac). The initial investment is very steep. After that, you might start saving, but I don't know. OS is now producing ethanol engines. We'll have to see how that pans out, and whether or not ethanol becomes a more affordable alternative to methanol.

David

BERUSTY

My Feedback: (3)

Classic Pattern and the economy...

The unforseen bonus of flying electric...more quality flying time, for me.

Electric powered, specifically LiPo power, has add an unintended bonus in the form of more quality flying time which for me (having very little time) is priceless?

Specifically, I added an Oxai Beryll/Hacker C50XL Comp to my F3A fleet in 2007. I logged 125 flights from February to July, not particularly special. What made/makes it special is that at least 45 of the flights were completed on my way to the office at 6:00 am! My flying field only flying hour restrictions for "glow". I also had at least 20 flights made on my way home from the office. E-power offered my the ability to fly with a suit and tie, quick set-up and tear-down creating more tiny little windows to add flights and stay married.

The other benefit, that I did't fully appreciate, is the consistency. The throttle stick is exactly the same, with zero concern about a slightly too low of an idle in a spin...and the brake feature for down lines is pretty cool. I am drawing better manuevers with the additional flights which is enhancing all of my precision flying. I also have/had many other 2c/4c aeropbatic models...love em...when time is available like em the best over the most weather conditions.

The expense is not rationally defensible. I have (3) sets of 5300 Thunder Power lite packs with 120 flights each and (2) 5000 Extreme Thunder Power packs with 60 and 20 flights and will require hundreds of more flights to "break-even" versus Cool Power 30% heli for my YS powered models. The chargers, power supplies, balancers and batteries are expensive.

The simplicity, consistency and reduced wear and tear on airframes are very apparent. Glow will always be a part of my modeling recognizing the e-power may prove to be very enjoyable for many modelers and a variety of their airplanes...independent of cost.


Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Parts and Service

tommy s

My Feedback: (55)

I agree with everything Rusty said. I changed over to electric a couple of
months ago and while I've heard some gripes about less flying time with
electric it's been the opposite with me, I've had more trouble free flying
since the change to electric. A nice bonus is no airframe wear, after flying
for a couple of months the airplane still looks new !
I am starting an Eyeball for Senior Pattern and it's going to be electric. I
like the smell and sound of nitro but e-power is just too easy, consistent,
and reliable.
I don't think electric has to be super expensive. The most cost has always been
the batteries on larger models but their cost is steadily coming down. I'm using
inexpensive Zippy and Rhino lipo's and so far they have been very good.



tommy s

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Andy,

actually, what was meant is that classic pattern models weren't powered by electric in their day (for obvious reasons) and hence, in some respects the designs were not optimized for electric power. That's not to say that classic pattern models can't or shouldn't be electrified. Personally, I intend to do exactly that - take a classic such as the Tiporare, reduce the scale and make it electric. Why reduce the scale? Because, for me, the margin of where electric models make sense is in the sub 60 size (~65 in) airframes. Although I don't mind having a few 3s and 4s packs for flying small models and being able to replace them without having to recharge at the field, requiring a triplet of 4s packs or a couple of 6s packs to fly a 1/4 scale model isn't financially viable.

Rationally, to me the power breakdown works out in the following order according to model size: electric, glow and gas. Ecologically (and those with young kids might tend to think more about this kind of thing), I like the idea of having a wind or solar powered generator that produces AC/DC on the fly (no need to store it) and, when needed, put that DC into batteries for flying. Of course, there is also the discussion of the ecologic friendliness (during and after manufacture) of reactive metal based piles vs the CNC processes required to, primarily, manufacture glow and gas engines.

Good stuff, David.

P.S. Loved the Kaos and the flight report - of course.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

David,

there you have it... follow your wishes but don't switch (so much for advertising); adopt a new platform! I find it refreshing to use equipment (in this case computers) for what they do best. I'll never argue for or against Macs or PC's. As far as I'm concerned its a moot point - there's no such thing as "this one's better" - it's a pile of nonsense stirred up by people who become impassioned primarily because of marketing. Most die hards, have never used or refuse to use another platform so they typically have no perspective - their opinion is entirely biased and subjective. I remember the days when graphics people used to say that there is nothing quite like the Mac but of course, they had never used a unix workstation with X11 - the graphic power was (and still is) something to behold. In fact, little did they know that the limitations of the Mac (back in its system 9 days and pre) would soon be overcome by actually molding the interface of a unix operating system for users accustomed to the Mac interface. Of course it didn't make sense to go all the way and so these same users had to adopt the same sort of Unix experience had by other professionals back then. Most of them are oblivious to the history and their argument about the Mac continues... BTW, I use both a Mac and a PC on a daily basis - both are powered by Intel IC's!

Although not quite the same, I would venture a similar argument applies to glow vs electric.

In any case, what I really meant to say is that I applaud your concern yet your openness. There..., I'll give that a rest.

On the other hand, fascinating that OS is producing ethanol engines! Where can one learn more about that?

David.

P.S. Nothing personal with your comment David, it just got me thinking.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

The O.S. engines that use ethanol are listed here:

http://www.os-engines.co.jp/english/...t/airindex.htm

They have the "BE" suffix on their engine designation, such as ".55 AX-BE". If you check the specs, you'll see that they have about somewhere between 50% and 90% of the power output of the regular glow engine of the same displacement, depending upon the engine. The engines and fuel are more expensive than regular glow engines and fuel.

In the U.S., there's also a problem with the fuel. The ethanol fuel comes under regulation of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF), and there are some taxes involved because ethanol is the alcohol that is consumable by humans.

The engines are currently available only in Japan.

grcourtney

My Feedback: (1)

4-fut.9151,1-fut 136g,1-8ch 2.4 rx,1regulaor, li-ion batt,1-set retracts B&D,1-os .61rf-h , hanno pipe, header contest balsa(wings &stab), Glue various kinds,true turn spinner, air fram(e-bay)$$$$$ unfortunately or furtunately depending on your perspective, 3qt of paint I used a little of :-)... thinner ,hardener, sand paper, Pizza and bear for the painting party... adds up quik.


gary

grcourtney

My Feedback: (1)

Pattern aircraft are not expensive, if you are active pattern flyer, I have at least 20 cases of fuel through my 2m ship dollers per flight are minimal, traveling to and back from contests in a full season far out spends my plane budget. travel is the hidden cost of pattern...

gary

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

I started throwing receipts away a long time ago from what I spend on this hobby...I don't think about it..If I did I'd probably realize I can't afford to do this...

I make little lists of stuff I think I need..Then I scrimp and save to buy a little at a time and set it on the shelve...

Later I go downstairs and it looks like I have all this free stuff sitting on the shelves for me to build!! (I think it's some kind of weird psychological thing)

I can pretty easily see a .60 size classic pattern plane costing $1000-1500 or more if you include pizza and beer..

Have Fun...

Chuck

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Hey David. That was probably an "anachronistic analogy." It would have made more sense in the days of OS9 as lots of people have successfully installed OSX on their PCs. (I used PCs, Macs and Linux machines on a daily basis at my last job, and also believe each has its inherent strengths.)

My intention was not to suggest that one is better than the other, but rather to suggest that switching from one platform to the other once required a hefty financial commitment (new hardware and software).

So, carrying that (OS9) analogy over to glow vs E-power, I would have to make the commitment to purchase all of the necessary hardware. And, this has nothing to do with whether one is better than the other. Obviously you can't simply hook a LiPo up to a carburetor's fuel nipple and make the engine run, or hook a fuel tank up to an electric motor. I'd have to buy the motor, ESC, batteries, charger and whatever other support equipment is necessary. That is analogous to what one had to do when switching from a PC to a Mac before OSX. And that's really all I meant by it.

In other words, the current economy (the subject of this thread) makes investing in a sixty-size electric model less likely for now.

David