Unknown Pattern Ship
07-07-2009, 05:43 AM
#26
Thread Starter
RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
You did good Freebird. How did you find it ? Lot of stab area on this bird.
Vince
Vince
A friend of mine was surfing and saw a pic of it on another R/C forum. He gave me the link and I thought it was very cool looking. I contacted the owner and asked the usual questions and he asked if $40 was acceptable.
I had no idea it was a BA until I posted the pic and the opinions started coming in. This forum is just awesome with the wealth of knowledge out there. I have another surprise on its way to me, I'll post it when it arrives.
FB,
nice looking "Bluish Angel". The numbering on the parts does feel like it comes from a Japanese kit. The fin, as others have pointed out, does seem more jet like as in the early prototype of the BA rather than the Yoshioka winning model. It could be interesting to keep it like that from a "vintage" standpoint. It certainly makes for different BA!
Oh, nice planter... thanks for keeping her off the ground this time
David.
nice looking "Bluish Angel". The numbering on the parts does feel like it comes from a Japanese kit. The fin, as others have pointed out, does seem more jet like as in the early prototype of the BA rather than the Yoshioka winning model. It could be interesting to keep it like that from a "vintage" standpoint. It certainly makes for different BA!
Oh, nice planter... thanks for keeping her off the ground this time
David.
It was built from a kit, too bad I don't have any other info on it. This usually is the case on old models that get passed around like this one has. I'm going to leave the fin as-is, as I like the looks of it. Thanks for noticing the planter, I used it because of your last post on the Saturn.
BTW - keep up the good work on your build threads!Overall the model is in excellent shape, as mentioned before, there is a little hangar rash. The model is bare balsa and the mold shouldn't be an issue, it's very dry and should clean up easily. As can be seen in the pics, its set up for retracts, but I'm confused on the nose gear. It looks like the rear portion of it was blocked off and is too short for the nose gear leg. Any ideas? Now does anybody know anything about the kit it may have come from? I'm no expert on the BA and its different versions. I've been reading 8178's BA build thread and it has a ton of excellent info in it. Thanks 8178!!!!!
Now, does anybody have Dan's current email address as I need to get a set of plans and a canopy. I know that the plans may be different that the version I have, but at least it'll be a starting point for the shape of the rudder and elevators and mostly the CG. Thanks!
FB
07-07-2009, 02:00 PM
#27
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RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
FB,
I located the MRC MK BA kit review article (see attached PDF MAN April 1974) that was kindly forwarded to me by Mike (8178) as I requested it in light of a recent MK BA 40 purchase.
From what I can tell from the article (no plans in it), yours is an authentic MK kit (and design) from the early 70's. The review MK has the same fin configuration as yours and the parts printing is consistent with all other MK parts engraving that I have seen. Yoshioka later modified Kato's design for his own purposes and F3A World's in Switzerland (Bern I think - article also attached - American Aircraft Modeler ~ early 1975) and has the layout that the later MK kits had as well as Mike's and David's scratch builds. That should cover the question about which kit it came from.
As far as Dan's latest email address it's in one of his latest posts - Mike and Dan exchanged some comments about a web site for his kits in some thread - it should be easy to locate; perhaps Mike's thread. Hopefully the article will give you an idea of the rough planform of the rudder - it might be difficult to locate an original MK BA plan (but harder things have been found 'round these parts - we have become good researchers!)
I have a couple of thoughts about the nose gear. I'll have a look at the pics again and post on that.
David.
P.S. Note that PDF uploads (<6MB) are now supported on our forum - nice! Save as MAN April 1974 MK BA.pdf and AAM 1975 Yoshioka BA.pdf, respectively.
I located the MRC MK BA kit review article (see attached PDF MAN April 1974) that was kindly forwarded to me by Mike (8178) as I requested it in light of a recent MK BA 40 purchase.
From what I can tell from the article (no plans in it), yours is an authentic MK kit (and design) from the early 70's. The review MK has the same fin configuration as yours and the parts printing is consistent with all other MK parts engraving that I have seen. Yoshioka later modified Kato's design for his own purposes and F3A World's in Switzerland (Bern I think - article also attached - American Aircraft Modeler ~ early 1975) and has the layout that the later MK kits had as well as Mike's and David's scratch builds. That should cover the question about which kit it came from.
As far as Dan's latest email address it's in one of his latest posts - Mike and Dan exchanged some comments about a web site for his kits in some thread - it should be easy to locate; perhaps Mike's thread. Hopefully the article will give you an idea of the rough planform of the rudder - it might be difficult to locate an original MK BA plan (but harder things have been found 'round these parts - we have become good researchers!)
I have a couple of thoughts about the nose gear. I'll have a look at the pics again and post on that.
David.
P.S. Note that PDF uploads (<6MB) are now supported on our forum - nice! Save as MAN April 1974 MK BA.pdf and AAM 1975 Yoshioka BA.pdf, respectively.
07-07-2009, 02:21 PM
#28
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RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
FB,
on closer inspection of your pictures, there is now no doubt in my mind that what you have there is an authentic original MK BA. The build design and parts numbering is 100% MK including the nose gear bay.
At first I thought that like several Japanese designs, the wing rides higher in the fuse (often the top is at the thrust line or a tad higher) causing the nose gear to be rather short in comparison to the main gear (e.g., Aurora, Beetle, Cosmos, even Atlanta, etc.). However, the BA is actually a shallow belly pan low wing design. I think the idea was for the rear block to be carved out in a U-shape to accommodate the wheel and strut while also provide strength to the wing mounting main F2 former. Perhaps the builder missed this point. However, I believe my later BA40 kit doesn't require this but I think Yoshioka stretched the nose moment (I read the article some time ago) to allow a full retract nose gear to enter a rectangular bay. Many MK designs use the rectangular bay approach for the nose gear. The block might have also been a little shorter.
Judging from the build, it appears that the builder had experience but perhaps not much with MK kits. It looks as though there are a few "oops" repairs (I do a fair number of those when building too late) as well as a couple of "filled" mis-measurements. Given a beauty treatment and a nice finish, she'll end up impeccable!
At least there is little doubt as to what the trim scheme should look like! It's hard to finish a BA and not make her look like one. Come to think of it, you could finish her in WA - White Angel colours.
David.
$40 - gotta shake my head... I got mine last year for a 10x multiplier (that original will certainly not be built - I'll have to clone it first).
on closer inspection of your pictures, there is now no doubt in my mind that what you have there is an authentic original MK BA. The build design and parts numbering is 100% MK including the nose gear bay.
At first I thought that like several Japanese designs, the wing rides higher in the fuse (often the top is at the thrust line or a tad higher) causing the nose gear to be rather short in comparison to the main gear (e.g., Aurora, Beetle, Cosmos, even Atlanta, etc.). However, the BA is actually a shallow belly pan low wing design. I think the idea was for the rear block to be carved out in a U-shape to accommodate the wheel and strut while also provide strength to the wing mounting main F2 former. Perhaps the builder missed this point. However, I believe my later BA40 kit doesn't require this but I think Yoshioka stretched the nose moment (I read the article some time ago) to allow a full retract nose gear to enter a rectangular bay. Many MK designs use the rectangular bay approach for the nose gear. The block might have also been a little shorter.
Judging from the build, it appears that the builder had experience but perhaps not much with MK kits. It looks as though there are a few "oops" repairs (I do a fair number of those when building too late) as well as a couple of "filled" mis-measurements. Given a beauty treatment and a nice finish, she'll end up impeccable!
At least there is little doubt as to what the trim scheme should look like! It's hard to finish a BA and not make her look like one. Come to think of it, you could finish her in WA - White Angel colours
.David.
$40 - gotta shake my head... I got mine last year for a 10x multiplier
(that original will certainly not be built - I'll have to clone it first).
07-07-2009, 03:09 PM
#29
Thread Starter
RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
Doxilia
Thanks for the articles! It's good to have info like this on hand. I'll search for Dan's email tonight. I did have it, but lost it. You know how that goes. You're reading my mind on the trim scheme! There's not enough BA's out there looking the way they should. This project is on the back burner for now. Gotta get some plans and a canopy. But mostly gotta finish up some other projects first that are in the way. I'll keep you guys posted and only hope that I can come close to 8178's build!
As far as the price goes - even a trash can gets a steak once in a while! Just in the right place at the right time.
FB
Thanks for the articles! It's good to have info like this on hand. I'll search for Dan's email tonight. I did have it, but lost it. You know how that goes.
You're reading my mind on the trim scheme! There's not enough BA's out there looking the way they should. This project is on the back burner for now. Gotta get some plans and a canopy. But mostly gotta finish up some other projects first that are in the way. I'll keep you guys posted and only hope that I can come close to 8178's build!As far as the price goes - even a trash can gets a steak once in a while!
Just in the right place at the right time.FB
07-07-2009, 03:15 PM
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RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
Glad to be of assistance FB.
Enjoy your Chateaubriand!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chateaubriand_steak
I have to say I do like the idea of a WA... an interpositive if you will of the BA.
David.
Enjoy your Chateaubriand!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chateaubriand_steak
I have to say I do like the idea of a WA... an interpositive if you will of the BA.
David.
07-08-2009, 09:40 AM
#32
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RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
FB,
well, there really isn't a white BA scheme - I just thought of it on a whim. Simple though - invert blue for white and vice versa, the red stays the same but I'm not sure about the yellow on the fuse, something more appropriate (contrasty) would be nice. That's what I meant by an "interpositive" (or a negative).
David.
well, there really isn't a white BA scheme - I just thought of it on a whim. Simple though - invert blue for white and vice versa, the red stays the same but I'm not sure about the yellow on the fuse, something more appropriate (contrasty) would be nice. That's what I meant by an "interpositive" (or a negative).
David.
07-08-2009, 09:53 AM
#33
Thread Starter
RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
Thats what I thought. For my flying site, the original scheme would work better. The site faces south and as the day progresses, the sun moves from left to right in front of the flight line. So bright, contrasting colors on the wing work well, which the BA has.
FB
FB
07-08-2009, 01:31 PM
#34
RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
I think there are a lot of 1960's "jet style" C/L Stunter paint schemes that would fit these models very well. Dave Gierke's Novi's, Jim Kostecky's Formula S and Billy Werwage's USA-1, Gerry Phelp's Patriot (it's light blue so I dare say a very young flyer with great eyesight might be able to use this scheme!) have beautifully layed-out schemes that suit the long fuselaged, jet looking Classic Pattern jobs very well. David, that is what I thought of when I read your post and I'm going that direction with my T2A.
The Blue Angel scheme is pretty nice so inverting colors and going with a original scheme variation tack would be very appropriate too.
Chris...
The Blue Angel scheme is pretty nice so inverting colors and going with a original scheme variation tack would be very appropriate too.
Chris...
07-09-2009, 01:08 AM
#35
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RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
Chris,
I look forward to seeing your scheme for the T2A.
Hoping that Mike (8178) doesn't mind the liberal use of one of his pictures for "trim experimentation" I did a simple invert of the colour scheme without fussing too much about actually masking the colours to produce what I had in mind.
It produced some interesting results! No lack of contrast... that's for sure.
David.
I look forward to seeing your scheme for the T2A.
Hoping that Mike (8178) doesn't mind the liberal use of one of his pictures for "trim experimentation" I did a simple invert of the colour scheme without fussing too much about actually masking the colours to produce what I had in mind.
It produced some interesting results! No lack of contrast... that's for sure
.David.
07-11-2009, 06:41 PM
#37
Thread Starter
RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
I've been in contact with Dan (DeadStick) and a set of BA plans and a canopy will be on the way to me in a couple of days. We had a very long conversation, he sure is a resource of classic R/C models. I can't thank him enough for the help with my BA.
FB
FB
07-13-2009, 10:02 AM
#38
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RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
Hi Free Bird,
I found a picture from an old Swedish RC model catalog and on the front it had this picture. Maybe You have seen the picture?
Tsugutaka Yoshioka, Japan, and his Blue Angel, F3A World champion 1973 (second place Wolfgang Matt - notice his signature on the Blue Angel wing).
[Edit: same picture as below was in Model Airplane News 1974 issue 2 and photo was taken from the roof of MK factory in Osaka. The engine was Enya 60 with YS carburator.]
/Bo
I found a picture from an old Swedish RC model catalog and on the front it had this picture. Maybe You have seen the picture?
Tsugutaka Yoshioka, Japan, and his Blue Angel, F3A World champion 1973 (second place Wolfgang Matt - notice his signature on the Blue Angel wing).
[Edit: same picture as below was in Model Airplane News 1974 issue 2 and photo was taken from the roof of MK factory in Osaka. The engine was Enya 60 with YS carburator.]
/Bo
07-17-2009, 05:19 PM
#40
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RE: Unknown Pattern Ship
Hi,
Found a PDF (8 pages) with more historical information on Blue Angel and Mr Tsugutaka Yoshioka.
http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...gelarticle.pdf
/Bo
Found a PDF (8 pages) with more historical information on Blue Angel and Mr Tsugutaka Yoshioka.
http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...gelarticle.pdf
/Bo
