TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
10-04-2009, 07:49 AM
#226
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RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Yes, bend as in lean over, as in lower one's self, as in reduce one's self image to handle matters below one's competence level. The usage refered to would be permitting one's self to be photographed in less than favorable conditions.
Although a defined use of the word in the dictionary I suppose it's use is an idiom of the language.
Although a defined use of the word in the dictionary I suppose it's use is an idiom of the language.
10-04-2009, 08:21 AM
#227
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Stripes,
Thanks for the extra information, that's clear.
I know that DR so I didn't have too much attention for that specific picture.
Cees
Thanks for the extra information, that's clear.
I know that DR so I didn't have too much attention for that specific picture.
Cees
10-04-2009, 06:37 PM
#228
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
?
Cees
ORIGINAL: kingaltair
Post shortened by Taurus Flyer
The later wing designed in September 1963 has a wingspan of 74 inches...significantly larger. The maximum width at the wing root rib is 14 inches. It also has DOUBLE-TAPERED leading and trailing edges similar to my Daddy Rabbit (BTW-The man in the picture with the long ears is not me...I would not ''stoop'' to be photographed like that).
Post shortened by Taurus Flyer
Duane
Post shortened by Taurus Flyer
The later wing designed in September 1963 has a wingspan of 74 inches...significantly larger. The maximum width at the wing root rib is 14 inches. It also has DOUBLE-TAPERED leading and trailing edges similar to my Daddy Rabbit (BTW-The man in the picture with the long ears is not me...I would not ''stoop'' to be photographed like that).
Post shortened by Taurus Flyer
Duane
Cees
, and the picture illustrates what I'm trying to show about the shape of the wing. The new Cirrus wing has a shape just like the 1969 Daddy Rabbit 5...only with a greater span. That particular picture was the last one taken of "the Rabbit" before I buried it at full throttle while practicing a new maneuver a week after the picture was taken. The yellow Rabbit is being repaired/recovered, and will fly again.
Duane
10-04-2009, 10:00 PM
#229
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
ORIGINAL: kingaltair
When you look closely, I think it is obvious that this wing does NOT have the larger wingspan of the later wing. Looks like 64 inches was not enough wing area, (I'm not sure of course, but it originally may have been a real ''lead sled''; the later wing design increases wing area, (reduces wing loading), to handle the extra weight of the retracts and early proportional radio.
The later wing designed in September 1963 has a wingspan of 74 inches...significantly larger. The maximum width at the wing root rib is 14 inches. It also has DOUBLE-TAPERED leading and trailing edges similar to my Daddy Rabbit
I originally didn't pick-up on the differences in the wings in the pictures, but when you look closer, I believe you can see the double taper. I think all the black and white pictures show the later 74'' wing version that flew in 1964 including the close-up pictures of the inverted wing. Although not obvious, I think it becomes apparent when you look for it. Apparently both had retracts. Willie's Cirrus also looks like it has the later version double-tapered wing.
Duane
When you look closely, I think it is obvious that this wing does NOT have the larger wingspan of the later wing. Looks like 64 inches was not enough wing area, (I'm not sure of course, but it originally may have been a real ''lead sled''; the later wing design increases wing area, (reduces wing loading), to handle the extra weight of the retracts and early proportional radio.
The later wing designed in September 1963 has a wingspan of 74 inches...significantly larger. The maximum width at the wing root rib is 14 inches. It also has DOUBLE-TAPERED leading and trailing edges similar to my Daddy Rabbit
I originally didn't pick-up on the differences in the wings in the pictures, but when you look closer, I believe you can see the double taper. I think all the black and white pictures show the later 74'' wing version that flew in 1964 including the close-up pictures of the inverted wing. Although not obvious, I think it becomes apparent when you look for it. Apparently both had retracts. Willie's Cirrus also looks like it has the later version double-tapered wing.
Duane
She states that the "850" stands for the WING AREA of the 74" wingspan wing of 850sq inches. The 64" wing had a 750 sq in area.
As for the pictures, all of them, (with the possible exception of Willie's plane and the upright view), are of the 64" span wing since the "850" wing had retracts, but didn't have doors for the wheel wells. The damaged wing is the "850"...apparently it had a bad hard landing that damaged the gear. It looks to me like the pictures of the underside of the wing have a double-taper, but it must be an optical illusion.
If I were to build this plane, I'd probably build it with conventional gear because my home field would tear-up the retracts.
Duane
10-17-2009, 10:43 PM
#231
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Hello Brett fans;
I apologize for not posting something new for a while now. We just finished up the SPA season with the Masters last weekend. There are other threads that speak about how great an event it was this year, and the special guests that traveled from Florida to fly with us. It was a great weekend, and a great end to a great season.
Personally I somehow managed to take first place in NOVICE three times this season, so I am obliged to move up to Sportsman for next season. Looking forward to that with mixed emotions.
Slightly off topic, (actually WAY off topic), I hope you will understand and indulge me if I take a little time to show you the new "arrivals" to our family..."Mickey" and "Katie". They are Australian Terriers, and are about 11 weeks old, and a real handful. This makes our 5th and 6th Australian Terriers, (not all at once...4 generations)...I would highly recommend the breed....and yes, the "Yorkie" was used to help develop the breed over one hundred years ago. There is also a picture of the mother, (Gigi), so you can see what they will look like as adults. The terriers enjoy spending time with me down the basement as I work in the shop...so the ARE interested in the planes.
We have a little more to discuss on the Cirrus before moving on to NimbusIII, (which I know Evan has been waiting for). Notice the third attachment. Looks like this was the means by which Tom was able to determine the size of the individual wing ribs back then...this is for you Jeff. Input from the engineering types is welcomed.
Duane
I apologize for not posting something new for a while now. We just finished up the SPA season with the Masters last weekend. There are other threads that speak about how great an event it was this year, and the special guests that traveled from Florida to fly with us. It was a great weekend, and a great end to a great season.
Personally I somehow managed to take first place in NOVICE three times this season, so I am obliged to move up to Sportsman for next season. Looking forward to that with mixed emotions.
Slightly off topic, (actually WAY off topic), I hope you will understand and indulge me if I take a little time to show you the new "arrivals" to our family..."Mickey" and "Katie". They are Australian Terriers, and are about 11 weeks old, and a real handful. This makes our 5th and 6th Australian Terriers, (not all at once...4 generations)...I would highly recommend the breed....and yes, the "Yorkie" was used to help develop the breed over one hundred years ago. There is also a picture of the mother, (Gigi), so you can see what they will look like as adults. The terriers enjoy spending time with me down the basement as I work in the shop...so the ARE interested in the planes.
We have a little more to discuss on the Cirrus before moving on to NimbusIII, (which I know Evan has been waiting for). Notice the third attachment. Looks like this was the means by which Tom was able to determine the size of the individual wing ribs back then...this is for you Jeff. Input from the engineering types is welcomed.
Duane
10-19-2009, 07:00 AM
#234
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
FB.....I'm SURE my wife wouldn't have gone along with that.
Duane
Duane
FB
10-19-2009, 01:50 PM
#235
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Very nice Duane, and now I know what pups are and that the British Beagle Aircraft Limited once aptly named their training aircraft Pup - the Beagle Pup.
Tom Brett's drawing of the wing ribs is very similar to his graphic construction of the stab, except it's even more neat. Do you know that foam cores for highly tapered wings, delta wings for instance, are cut similarly? Imagine the root rib template attached to one side of the core block and the pivot at the right distance on the other end. The hot wire is turned around the pivot and along the root rib template. Or imagine cutting a set of ribs between the root and tip rib templates. The picture shows the graphic equivalent. But I'm sure you know that.
And to top off the "engineering stuff", here's an appendix for Michaelj2k. (Oops, appendix? 
)
My education wasn't in vain. As we once said, you don't have to know anything, you just have to know a textbook example. Came across the ISO recommendation R 128 (German standard DIN 6) for orientation of multi-views, as I learned it 39 years ago.
Method A is American projection, method E is European projection (how suggestive!), just the other way around as it's supposed to.
Tom Brett's drawing of the wing ribs is very similar to his graphic construction of the stab, except it's even more neat. Do you know that foam cores for highly tapered wings, delta wings for instance, are cut similarly? Imagine the root rib template attached to one side of the core block and the pivot at the right distance on the other end. The hot wire is turned around the pivot and along the root rib template. Or imagine cutting a set of ribs between the root and tip rib templates. The picture shows the graphic equivalent. But I'm sure you know that.
ORIGINAL: Michaelj2k
I don't think orientation is any different between American and German designs as it can be the designers choice according to what and how he wants to represent the view in question.
ORIGINAL: UStik
BTW, could it be that the orientation of three views is different in American and German drawings?
BTW, could it be that the orientation of three views is different in American and German drawings?
)My education wasn't in vain. As we once said, you don't have to know anything, you just have to know a textbook example. Came across the ISO recommendation R 128 (German standard DIN 6) for orientation of multi-views, as I learned it 39 years ago.
Method A is American projection, method E is European projection (how suggestive!), just the other way around as it's supposed to.
10-20-2009, 12:52 AM
#236
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
We used to call it '1st angle' and '3rd angle' projection. Just depended which way the imaginary box around the object was hinged to lie flat...
Evan.
Evan.
10-23-2009, 01:25 PM
#237
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Over the past few days I've taken the original velum drawings of Cirrus and Nimbus III (provided by Helen Brett), into an architectural drafting and blueprint supplier to have them properly copied. It is interesting that when I told the guy behind the counter the age of the drawings he told me they were the best quality plans he has ever seen close to that age. They look like they could have been drawn last week.
I'll be trying to post the plans, (PDF) on this thread over the next few days for discussion. Anyone interested in plans can contact me off thread, and I'll tell you how to get your own set directly from the copier.
Duane
I'll be trying to post the plans, (PDF) on this thread over the next few days for discussion. Anyone interested in plans can contact me off thread, and I'll tell you how to get your own set directly from the copier.
Duane
10-24-2009, 09:20 AM
#239
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
I'll be trying to post the plans, (PDF) on this thread over the next few days for discussion. Anyone interested in plans can contact me off thread, and I'll tell you how to get your own set directly from the copier.
Duane
Duane
FB
10-25-2009, 05:34 PM
#241
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
The files attached above are the first of many PDF files sent via e-mail from the copier. Could you use these files directly to have your own plans made locally? If not, I can
e-mail you the files, and you cand send them back to the copier to get your own set of plans, (he doesn't keep the scans on file). That's how I would have additional plans made for myself.
Duane
e-mail you the files, and you cand send them back to the copier to get your own set of plans, (he doesn't keep the scans on file). That's how I would have additional plans made for myself.
Duane
10-26-2009, 02:49 AM
#245
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Ok, got them, sure is enough to build from, more than you really need actually. I'll have to slot this one in behind the Ju 88 and the Proctor Nieuport kit I was given...so much to do, so little time...
Evan.
Evan.
10-26-2009, 03:42 PM
#247
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Just need to know one major dimension, accurately. I can print out the scans at (say) A3 size, and apply a simple ratio to the result. Take them to the local printer and say "enlarge 'x' times" and the plans come out at the full size. Or, you can go for a particular size you like, say "I would like a 70 inch version of this model" and do the same sums, and come up with the required enlargement ratio. All simple stuff. And you can do it to virtually any 'magazine' size plan. If you do two copies, you can use one for the build, and keep a clean one for either loans or just for the record. Anyway, that how most of my collection have been built.
Evan.
Evan.
10-31-2009, 12:43 PM
#249
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
ORIGINAL: kingaltair
Evan;
I'll provide you with exact wingspan measurements for all the plans that I'll be posting. We'll be talking about Nimbus III soon.
Duane
Evan;
I'll provide you with exact wingspan measurements for all the plans that I'll be posting. We'll be talking about Nimbus III soon.
Duane
Cirrus 850....Each wing panel is exactly 37" from center to the widest part of the wingtip for a total span of 74." (Total length from tip of spinner to tail fin is just under 57-3/4")
Nimbus III...Each panel is 36-1/4" for a total span of 72-1/2" (Total length from spinner to tip of fin is approx 55-3/4")
The overall look of Cirrus is much like Perigee except for the double taper wing and early retracts. For Nimbus III, (Tom's last model design dated late October through mid November 1965), Tom returns to the familiar single taper wing with straight leading edge used in both Nimbus II and Perigee/Apogee.
The vertical tail fin is smaller on Cirrus than Nimbus III, but rudder area is similar due to Cirrus being much wider at the bottom.
Some Nimbus plan details below
Duane
10-31-2009, 01:07 PM
#250
RE: TOM BRETT'S DESIGNS-UPDATE
Here are the rest of the Nimbus III drawings, but first a few more details. Nimbus III is the first plane where Tom uses an alternative, (other than dowels and rubber bands), method for attaching the wing. The design of Nimbus III is even more sleek, (if you can believe it) than Perigee, or Nimbus II.
Tom designed Nimbus III just before he and Helen turned to flying full-scale aircraft. Helen told me Tom flew Nimbus III "a few times" in the summer of 1966. In my response back to her, I said that I imagine Tom was probably curious about how the plane would fly, but his heart was already turning to flying the real thing with her, (which was his long time goal). That probably accounts for the fact there are no known photos of Tom with his Nimbus III, which is really unfortunate for us.
Helen's grandson Brett came by to visit her a few days ago, and Helen tells me he took pictures of Nimbus III that will be sent to me. I'm looking forward to receiving them; when I get them, you'll be the first to know.
Duane
Tom designed Nimbus III just before he and Helen turned to flying full-scale aircraft. Helen told me Tom flew Nimbus III "a few times" in the summer of 1966. In my response back to her, I said that I imagine Tom was probably curious about how the plane would fly, but his heart was already turning to flying the real thing with her, (which was his long time goal). That probably accounts for the fact there are no known photos of Tom with his Nimbus III, which is really unfortunate for us.
Helen's grandson Brett came by to visit her a few days ago, and Helen tells me he took pictures of Nimbus III that will be sent to me. I'm looking forward to receiving them; when I get them, you'll be the first to know.
Duane
