pimmnz

Thanks for that Duane, you have probably saved three models, and a host of memories, from being simply lost in the mists of time. I realise that you are not an archivist, nor a professional historian, but if you can somehow package this stuff and preserve it then at least this bit of your modelling history will be safe from attempts to corrupt that which has already happened. And I got a couple more models to build...
Evan.

kingaltair

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Evan;

I'm certainly open for suggestions about the best way to do that....but how, and how could interested modelers find it? I've tried to document Tom's career as completely and fully as possible with Helen Brett's help. I was just e-mailing her that both Cirrus and Nimbus III were completely unknown except to a handful of fellow modelers at Tom's home club some 40 years ago. I bet 95% of the current members at RCCD have no knowledge of either of them. Now others interested in vintage modeling, (actually just modeling and building in general), will be able to build these beautiful planes for themselves; talk about having something different to take to the flying field, and something with some history behind it as well.

Evan...take a close look at the lines of Nimbus III; isn't she a beauty!! And the larger size is just what I like personally speaking.

Duane

pimmnz

Yep, Nimbus 3 is a pretty airplane. I will build one, you will note that Toms engine suggestions are all for the .50~.60 sizes too. As to your other question, I would suggest publishing a story, and eventually providing the AMA with either the originals or good copies of the relevant bits. If you can get this and Ed's bits into M.A. or somesuch you will at least provide a hard copy which can be referenced, and the important bits should be safe in the AMA museums archives.
Evan

kingaltair

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Evan;

Helen's grandson, Brett sent me 10 pictures of Nimbus III, but unfortunately they were not sent as attachments in a way that I can save them, (at least at work), and attach them as photos in this thread.

So for the time being, what you're going to have to do is to imagine a beautiful, large, two-tone blue plane with minimal dihedral.....elliptical cut-outs on the wings with capstrips and yellow silk. Nimbus III appears to be in pristine condition, and looks ready to fly. It is super-sleek...and no rubber bands.

Evan, (and Free Bird), do you have that plane pictured? Kind-of like RADIO isn't it? Let's see how it compares with the real thing when I can get the pictures posted later.

Sorry to leave you hanging over there in New Zealand, but that's the way it goes.

Duane

Free Bird

I would agree with the above thoughts! Especially since you have an "in" with Mrs. Brett. The story could be one of the most accurate pieces of early R/C from one of the pioneers. I for one would like to see all of Tom's models hanging in the AMA museum.

Duane: I have visions of Tom's models all the time!

FB

EvenflowTen

If you folks don't mind, I am Brett, Helen's grandson.  I can post the images myself.

kingaltair

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Brett...you will be spoiling all my fun. I wanted to build a little suspense for now, and this is (almost) the last surprise before we wrap things up.....but why don't you go ahead and post a couple at least. I've saved the pictures at home and was planning on posting them tonight, but a little preview wouldn't hurt.

Thanks for taking them for us.

Duane

EvenflowTen

yeah I will post a couple that don't get a lot of detail...so you can have that fun. This way people will be waiting with baited breath.

EvenflowTen

Well here are few with little detail...

kingaltair

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I like your style Brett. I don't know about everybody else, but I can't open them. There are just those tantalizing little red "X"s to look at. Keep 'em guessing




THIS IS LATER THAT SAME DAY:

WOAH-THERE THEY ARE

EvenflowTen

interesting, they show up for me.  I used the image posting button on here, so I don't know.  Try a refresh.  If that doesn't work then I'll try something else.

proptop

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Merco [8D]

kingaltair

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How about more Nimbus III pictures:

Duane

kingaltair

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Final Nimbus photos:

Comments welcome

AndyKunz

Hey, I've got one of those spinners. It needs a new home.

Andy

kingaltair

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One point I wanted to make about Nimbus III

If you go back to page 10, post 250...take a look at the fuselage top view nose section. It appears to be offset thrust to the extent that it alters the shape of the nose somewhat. Are there any commments from those knowing more than me about such things...is this "offset thrust", or is this just the normal right side thrust?

Comments?

Michaelj2k

I have several of them too and I know just where to put them!

Duane, you have done a service for all of us who appreciate vintage airplanes. And to find them in like new condition too! My thanks go to you and the Brett family for such a historical find.

Thank you for sharing the plans. I've downloaded and printed them and just marvel at the amount of detail.

Here's some files out of my stash for the Nimbus II from American Modeler. You should be able to print the drawing full size.

kingaltair

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You're very welcome Michael...I tell you, this whole adventure since July 4th when I was able to visit Helen, (a relative stranger then), and see Tom's planes "live and in living color" as been one of the great memories of my R/C life.

One thing seems to lead to another. If it hadn't been for our pal from California, Chuck Winter producing that tremendous 30..minute video none of this would have been possible as I wouldn't have had a good enough excuse to bother Helen asking for a personal visit. The vintage R/C community has many wonderful people associated with it.

I meant every word when I said that Tom had quite an effect in shaping my tastes in R/C. Even observing him from a distance, you could see he was a meticulous builder and engineer...his work was flawless, as were his plans.

I got to "know him" better as a person by reading his articles, and taking some cues on his personality from them. It's a shame I was too shy as a young teen back then to push all the others out of the way and introduce myself, but it took years for the impressions to "sink in" and become important to me. Sometimes you have to look back on your life to see the things that leave a positive impression on you. The RCCD, and the Detroit Invitationals and all those famous pioneers of pattern shaped my interest in R/C which was later fueled by great organizations like VR/CS and SPA. All these elements came together for me to make all this so much fun.

Anyway, I'm glad this worked out so well. It wouldn't have been nearly as much fun or as good a thread without the continued support and documentation in the form of photos, and impressions that came directly from Helen Brett and the Brett family, Willie McMath, Mel Santmyer, and Chuck Winter.

I'm glad you folks have enjoyed the thread, but we're not quite done. We'll be hearing directly from Helen again, and we'll see another Brett plane. Who knows, maybe new pictures will surface as new people find the thread...we'll see.

Duane

pimmnz

We can wait, after all, we've only got a couple more models to build...
Evan.

kingaltair

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At least three, and two of them previously unknown.

Actually we have more to discuss that I thought as new information is coming to light, so the post above may be a bit pre-mature.

Evan, any comments on the Nimbus III photos?

pimmnz

I did try, but RCU wouldn't upload for some reason so I'll try again. Yes, it's a very pretty model, both of them actually, and N3 deserves to be built. I will find some rib stock and start a kit but like I said, there are other models in the line ahead of this one. Just keep the stuff coming, and even if there is no comment from the rest of us, it don't mean that no-one cares, more like we just ain't got nuttin to add...
Evan.

RFJ

That about covers it [sm=thumbs_up.gif] Interesting that Tom used a (British) Merco - is that a 49 or 61 in the picture. I notice the plan mentions both.

Ray

Michaelj2k

The plans also show installations for the ST .56 and .60, Fox .59, Veco .45 and .61. I printed the N3 set and am just amazed at the detail shown. The airplane is fairly easy to build for the seasoned balsa basher but you need to spend some time studying the drawings and become familiar with the detail views and where they are placed in the airframe. The fuselage bulkhead detail views are not identified but when you have both fuselage drawings on the table, it all comes together. Tom did not draw detail parts but preferred to show them in a view projection. When building the N3, one must make templates of the assembly then remove everything that is not the actual part. I think a builder will spend as much time making a kit vs. actual construction. There is a sequence to construction but I need to study the drawings more to see what is added where. Getting something out of sequence can affect progress.

Tom's method of using the spars and ribs as their own building fixture is interesting. For example, both the main and rear spar are the main fixture, both being double depth to be secured to the building board. The ribs follow along with several tabs on each rib to secure them to the board. The wing is build in egg-crate style which insures good bonds; the stab is built the same way. The wing could literally be assembled prior to any adhesive being used. To make this all work, one must have an absolutley flat building surface. Tom noted that the wing is completly sheeted on the top surface then removed from the board and all the "jig" fixtures are cut off before sheeting the bottom. Current building methods could be used to build N3 today. Magnets, glass and even the Adjusto Jig could be used to build an accurate airframe. In his published construction articles, Tom emphasized that to have a good performing airplane, it has to be absolutley straight!

Tom also used kinematics showing servo movement. The 120° aileron servo bellcrank is drawn in three positions; neutral, left and right. Tom probably did this to study clearances for doing his radio installation. He also details the position and installation of the 9 pin D connectors used for servo connections. The servos and their movement are reflected in his drawing; I assume that when he did the radio installation, he referred to the drawing for exact placement.

Awesome stuff.

Duane, did you happen to see his drawings for the Perigee and Apogee? I have a not so great Perigee copy but it would be interesting to see his originals.

kingaltair

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Excellent job with the analysis Michael.. I appreciate and learn a lot from these kinds of comments.

Regarding Perigee........it's funny you should ask. Way back when Helen first allowed me to take the drawings after my visit in July, I didn't look at any of them until I was in the hotel room that evening. I got the "scrolls" out to look at them, and there with the TBX was an unlabeled plan of what had to have been Perigee[X(]. I don't have a good reason for this, (perhaps I was more wrapped up in the less known planes), but I haven't looked in detail at these plans, put them side-by-side with the established Perigee plan, or even measured the wingspan to make sure it really is Perigee. The size and shape of the plane looks like a Perigee, but there is no characteristic signature and date like TBX, CIRRUS, and NIMBUS III. There are minimal notes as well, but the quality of the drawing is as good and precise as any of the other plans...this is not a sketch.

Just the other day, Helen mentioned in an e-mail that she found another set of building plans for Perigee in the plan cabinet, (that I'd of course like to see, along with preliminary drawings of two other planes we'll talk about later). So I wonder how this unlabeled Perigee plan came about; was it a tracing of another plan, or was it an early drawing that wasn't built....I don't know. Those plans were returned to Helen, but I had them reproduced, and will post them soon for commment.

BTW.....To the best of my knowledge, both Perigee and Apogee are identical to each other in all respects, (the same design). Tom stated in his Perigee article that Apogee, (the first to fly...photos coming from Helen!!) crashed due to radio failure after takeoff. When repairs were made, he believes a warp might have been introduced into the wing, as it did not track as well through the maneuvers. That's why Apogee was the back-up plane at the 1962 FAI championship.

Duane

pimmnz

Yes, Toms Perigee/Apogee article says that both models were the same. Tom drew plans for both the Hobby Helpers group (AAM publishers) and for DMECO when Hal DeBolt kitted the design. Maybe you've got some original construction, and redrawn magazine or kit plans there? As for the offset engine/thrustline deal, the early Nimbus has it, as does Apogee/Perigee, it was just something Tom did.
Evan.