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Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

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Old 11-14-2011, 09:13 AM
  #701
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Gents, an example about fixed wing training, and the importance of airspeed.

WWW, Pilot friend, fixed wing training.

Many stall/spin accidents have occurred in situations, such as crossed control turns from base leg to final approach (resulting in a skidding or slipping turn); attempting to recover from a high sink rate on final approach by using only an increased pitch attitude; and improper airspeed control on final approach or in other segments of the traffic pattern.

Flying a classic pattern plane isn't flying a trainer, they are designed to fly a very accentuated spin, observe the airfoils for example. When by coïncidence there are spin conditions, by pilot input or external influences, he will do for what he is designed for! Spin.
Prevent these conditions occur is main goal of the pilot by training, observing and control and IMO not limiting the capabilities of an airplane or making the piloting more complicated by switches.
Flying a decent circuit is most important, observe compenstation for drift, divide the circuit in (ground related!!) turns of no more than 90 degrees, maintain a safe airspeed, maintain altitude to recover from a spin if possible!! Recovering from a spin in the turn to final did happen me ones with my Orion, it was a matter of parts of a second!


Cees
Why don't you go back to the "foamy" forum and expound your vast knowledge there. You would be doing us a favor. Your opinions, while you are free to express them are an annoyance to a great many who regularly post here, so please act as a gentleman and go away.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:36 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

KLXMASTER14, while Cees can be annoying and often is, he is an experienced builder and flyer.

Bruce
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:53 AM
  #703
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Robert,
It never can be a problem to show my opinion after reading three persons did go down including you. I do fly in Europe and for a long time also pattern myself, see for example my visitors card for world championships patternflying in Bern in 1975.

We probably use different instructing methods and if so, not without reasons. I read several times our circumstances are much different from these of the USA, especially near the coast of our countries.
To give an impression, 1962, World Championships in England, Tom Brett, look at their coats and the vane of the antenna. Look at the movie of Genk 1963.

When you do advice to limit the throw of an elevator during landing maneuver. I personnal don't want to think about have to fly a plane modified by that!!
I nearly cannot believe we could read somewhere that advice officially, for example in an instructing booklet of any model.

Cees
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

OK, have it your way....
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:53 AM
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while Cees can be annoying and often is, he is an experienced builder and flyer.

Bruce
If you only knew.............

FB
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:12 AM
  #706
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Gents,

I was "in" for a while because I did read there were problems with landing procedures.
I am not a Phoenix 7 owner or pilot, I even never did fly one, but there is another point.
I am flight instructor and system developer and for me it's alsways a pity to see or read pilots do have problems or damages.

Because this thread is direct plane related, the Phoenix 7 of Hangar 9, I think it is a good point to contact the people of Hangar 9 about this subject. A group of users can do the job and ask the developers, for example David Eichstedt of Development of Hangar 9 or Quique Somenzini of Technology, how they think about reducing the elevator throw during the landing procedure or other landing procedure issues.Other point of course is, what is written in the instruction booklet of the plane?

A link:
http://www.hangar-9.com/Hangar9_Center/TeamBios.aspx

About product support I read:

In addition to the service information available in the owner's manual, you can contact the designated Product Support staff for your category of product.

Email productsupport@horizonhobby.com or US residents may call us toll-free between 8 a.m. and 7p.m. CST, Monday through Friday at 877.504.0233


Of course I am also interested, but because I am of Old School, even building an new (kind of) reeds system, I will keep it simple.


Cees

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Old 11-16-2011, 04:20 AM
  #707
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Quote:
I'll just need to repeat this 20 times..........this is NOT my slow, gentle flying Pulse 125, or my Twist or my Four Star...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn................DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
...........DON'T get her too slow in a turn.....
Quote:
Gents,

I was "in" for a while because I did read there were problems with landing procedures.
I am not a Phoenix 7 owner or pilot, I even never did fly one, but there is another point.
I am flight instructor and system developer and for me it's alsways a pity to see or read pilots do have problems or damages.

Because this thread is direct plane related, the Phoenix 7 of Hangar 9, I think it is a good point to contact the people of Hangar 9 about this subject. A group of users can do the job and ask the developers, for example David Eichstedt of Development of Hangar 9 or Quique Somenzini of Technology, how they think about reducing the elevator throw during the landing procedure or other landing procedure issues.Other point of course is, what is written in the instruction booklet of the plane?

A link:
http://www.hangar-9.com/Hangar9_Center/TeamBios.aspx

About product support I read:

In addition to the service information available in the owner's manual, you can contact the designated Product Support staff for your category of product.

Email productsupport@horizonhobby.com or US residents may call us toll-free between 8 a.m. and 7p.m. CST, Monday through Friday at 877.504.0233

Of course I am also interested, but because I am of Old School, even building an new (kind of) reeds system, I will keep it simple.


Cees
As you can see from the above quote, the pilot in question knew what he did wrong. We all make mistakes from time to time, it's what makes us human. There is no need for him or anybody else to contact Hangar 9. Please stop insulting our intelligence, all of us would be a lot better off.

FB
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:45 AM
  #708
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Free Bird,


This is the point, post 396, reducing elevator throw!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14

Joe,
Glad you are back! Her is a practical tip to help keep your aircraft out of that hole in the ground: The angle of attack is what stalls the wing, not the speed. Set up your low elevator rate such that the aircraft will not stall with full up elevator. Landing with elevator rates high enough to stall or spin is asking for trouble.

The elevator position sets the airspeed, use the throttle to control your rate of decent. Put this into practice (just like full scale) and your landings will be 10's.

This is from someone who- you guessed it- learned the hard way.

No fancy Turboencabulator device will keep a pilot from pulling the nose too high if it is available.

Good luck!
-Robert
For me it is a very bad idea generated by someone who "learned it the hard way" and I am affraid less experienced pilots are going to "try it out".
It never can be a problem to ask some experienced people of Hangar 9? I think they will be happy to make these kind of things clear before any proplens occur
I for example think about one fact in this process, "wind gradient"!

Cees


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Old 11-16-2011, 08:00 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer

Free Bird,


This is the point, post 396, reducing elevator throw!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14

Joe,
Glad you are back! Her is a practical tip to help keep your aircraft out of that hole in the ground: The angle of attack is what stalls the wing, not the speed. Set up your low elevator rate such that the aircraft will not stall with full up elevator. Landing with elevator rates high enough to stall or spin is asking for trouble.

The elevator position sets the airspeed, use the throttle to control your rate of decent. Put this into practice (just like full scale) and your landings will be 10's.

This is from someone who- you guessed it- learned the hard way.

No fancy Turboencabulator device will keep a pilot from pulling the nose too high if it is available.

Good luck!
-Robert
For me it is a very bad idea generated by someone who ''learned it the hard way'' and I am affraid less experienced pilots are going to ''try it out''.
It never can be a problem to ask some experienced people of Hangar 9? I think they will be happy to make these kind of things clear before any proplens occur
I for example think about one fact in this process, ''wind gradient''!

Cees


The bane of internet forums- posers and trolls. Buyer beware- you can take advice from guys like this if it appeals to you. Just be sure to take a trash bag with you to collect the pieces.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!



Cees,
The reason that you have trouble with men on this forum is that you come off as condescending, arrogant, and insulting. You put forth your ideas in an argumentative manner, and are irritating in general. I understand there exists a slight language barrier, but the bitter tongue translates perfectly.

Why don't you just try to play nice with people. You will get more bees with honey than vinegar. It's that simple. others have written these same words. Why not take some wise counsel?

For now, I have blocked you. If you decide to change your behavior, I would be happy to unblock you and even exchange ideas.


-Robert





Edit- for spelling.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:34 AM
  #711
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14

''For me it is a very bad idea generated by someone who ''learned it the hard way'' and I am affraid less experienced pilots are going to ''try it out''.
It never can be a problem to ask some experienced people of Hangar 9? I think they will be happy to make these kind of things clear before any proplens occur
I for example think about one fact in this process, ''wind gradient''!

Cees ''

Cees,
The reason that you have trouble with men on this forum is that you come off as condescending, arrogant, and insulting. You put forth your ideas in an argumentative manner, and are irritating in general. I understand there exists a slight language barrier, but the bitter tongue translates perfectly.

Why don't you just try to play nice with people. You will get more bees with honey than vinegar. It's that simple. others have written these same words. Why not take some wise council?


-Robert

Robert,

In de past I did read there are some troubles with the position of the fueltank of this Phoenix. Some of you did even make complex modifications to solve these.
It is not my problem, that was why I did not post before about these, but of course I do have my idea's.
Are you interested in a step by step explanation for a solution, just as I did in the past with the situation Ed Kazmirski did mix up two Taurusses to fly in Genk Belgium.


Cees


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Old 11-16-2011, 02:05 PM
  #712
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!


Quote:
ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14

''For me it is a very bad idea generated by someone who ''learned it the hard way'' and I am affraid less experienced pilots are going to ''try it out''.
It never can be a problem to ask some experienced people of Hangar 9? I think they will be happy to make these kind of things clear before any proplens occur
I for example think about one fact in this process, ''wind gradient''!

Cees ''

Cees,
The reason that you have trouble with men on this forum is that you come off as condescending, arrogant, and insulting. You put forth your ideas in an argumentative manner, and are irritating in general. I understand there exists a slight language barrier, but the bitter tongue translates perfectly.

Why don't you just try to play nice with people. You will get more bees with honey than vinegar. It's that simple. others have written these same words. Why not take some wise counsel?

For now, I have blocked you. If you decide to change your behavior, I would be happy to unblock you and even exchange ideas.


-Robert





Edit- for spelling.
Hey Robert........good words. I've got another word.......narcissism.....it just popped into my head.

Maybe Cees has never heard the expressions "Don't go away mad, just go away, or "Don't call us, we'll call you"

Joe M.
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:56 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

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ORIGINAL: JoeMamma
Hey Robert........good words. I've got another word.......narcissism.....it just popped into my head.
Robert,

I hope you won't mind me posting the following here - it just struck me as a bit of a theme of the day and in some way appropriate...

Some in our group were recently described as being megalomaniacs. While I thought of it as rather over the top (it's one of those words which struck me as having connotations with my son's dinosaur collection ), I decided to look it up for details. I was also curious about its etymology. Anyhow, I thought the following quotes from its Wikipedia page all quite interesting and revealing:

Megalomania is a psycho-pathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, and/or omnipotence. 'Megalomania is characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs'.[1] Historically it was used as an old name for narcissistic personality disorder prior to the latter's first use by Heinz Kohut in 1968, and is used these days as a non-clinical equivalent.[2][3]

"The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved. To this type belong many lunatics and most of the great men of history." [5] Bertrand Russell.

"a person with megalomania may not be interested in self-reflection or personal change",[18]


References can be found on the page.

What do you think? My reaction? Mmm, I'll just stick to toy airplanes...[8D]

David.
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Old 11-16-2011, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: KLXMASTER14

Cees,
The reason that you have trouble with men on this forum is that you come off as condescending, arrogant, and insulting. You put forth your ideas in an argumentative manner, and are irritating in general. I understand there exists a slight language barrier, but the bitter tongue translates perfectly.

Why don't you just try to play nice with people. You will get more bees with honey than vinegar. It's that simple. others have written these same words. Why not take some wise counsel?

For now, I have blocked you. If you decide to change your behavior, I would be happy to unblock you and even exchange ideas.


-Robert





Edit- for spelling.

Robert, cees has been banned from most every forum world wide, there is an issue, no doubt.
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:07 PM
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I wonder if there is a way to tell how many blocks a person has received? Cees must hold the record!
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Old 11-16-2011, 04:12 PM
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Mike, don't see much of you here. Good to see you post.
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:18 PM
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ORIGINAL: doxilia

Megalomania is a psycho-pathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, and/or omnipotence. 'Megalomania is characterized by an inflated sense of self-esteem and overestimation by persons of their powers and beliefs'.[1] Historically it was used as an old name for narcissistic personality disorder prior to the latter's first use by Heinz Kohut in 1968, and is used these days as a non-clinical equivalent.[2][3]

''The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved. To this type belong many lunatics and most of the great men of history.'' [5] Bertrand Russell.

''a person with megalomania may not be interested in self-reflection or personal change'',[18]


David.
Sounds a bit like our President! []

RG
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Old 11-16-2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: doxiliaWhat do you think? My reaction? Mmm, I'll just stick to toy airplanes...[8D]

David.
Me too. After all, it is just a hobby.

-Robert
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Old 11-17-2011, 12:58 AM
  #719
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Robert,

Have attention for post 708 because it did take some time to have these visible because of my delayed input.
There already were several posts written after that.

Cees
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:20 AM
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That's right Robert. Not only is it a hobby, it's a hobby where grown up men play with little toy airplanes. Zoom...Zooom...Zoom Some people even play dress up and pose like Ed.

By the way guys, I went to a lot of trouble to block Cees' arrogant, condescending, painfully obvious, verbose remarks. I really would appreciate it if you would refrain from including his replies in your replies.

Really appreciate it, thanks.
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Old 11-17-2011, 07:59 AM
  #721
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ORIGINAL: FLAPSDOWN

By the way guys, I went to a lot of trouble to block Cees' arrogant, condescending, painfully obvious, verbose remarks. I really would appreciate it if you would refrain from including his replies in your replies.

Really appreciate it, thanks.
I'm on board with that. I am so done with this, so here is what we are all about: (see attached)
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Old 11-17-2011, 10:52 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

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ORIGINAL: FLAPSDOWN

That's right Robert. Not only is it a hobby, it's a hobby where grown up men play with little toy airplanes. Zoom...Zooom...Zoom Some people even play dress up and pose like Ed.

By the way guys, I went to a lot of trouble to block Cees' arrogant, condescending, painfully obvious, verbose remarks. I really would appreciate it if you would refrain from including his replies in your replies.

Really appreciate it, thanks.

Ditto to Flapsdown!!!!
I gotta come by for a brewski this winter Flaps, and talk P-6 building! Got the wood DB all framed and mostly shaped.
hook
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:23 PM
  #723
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When we were flying AMA, and then walked down to fly our Classics at the Arvin contest, that was the coolest thing I've ever done in R/C flying, Robert. The act of starting those 60's and performing old sequences right after flying Turnaround stuff was so much fun.
I haven't flown since, BTW. Should rectify that immediately.
Chris...
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:26 PM
  #724
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Mark,
I'm going to visit my cousin in Kankakee sometime in December. We should get together for a visit since I'll be so close. Will be in touch.
Chris...
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:05 AM
  #725
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ORIGINAL: stuntflyr

When we were flying AMA, and then walked down to fly our Classics at the Arvin contest, that was the coolest thing I've ever done in R/C flying, Robert. The act of starting those 60's and performing old sequences right after flying Turnaround stuff was so much fun.
Amen, Brother. I know it was big for me. To fulfill the yearnings of a young man is priceless. We were walking on the wind.





"I haven't flown since, BTW. Should rectify that immediately.
Chris..."

ARRGH!!!!!!! [] []
FLY!!! FLY!!! FLY!!!!!
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