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Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

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Old 04-06-2012, 11:16 AM
  #776
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

FB,
I'll take pics tomorrow as the bird is packed up in my truck. A gusset was added underneath and epoxy and milled fibers were added to the joints. They survived the hasty landing w/o damage.
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:56 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

FB,
I found these from a post I placed a while ago in a P7 assembly forum.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:51 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Ed, thanks for sharing the photos! Your install looks great.
Where is this P7 assembly forum?
Matt
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:32 AM
  #779
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Matt,
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...m.htm#10508328
I hope this helps.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:19 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Thanks! looks like a familiar thread on RCG... Lots of good info!
Wonder if Robart will come out with electric retracts for the P7 at Toledo this weekend? [8D]
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Ed I just noticed from your earlier photo on the Webra post... is that an Enya 60XF-4 I see in the Intruder in the background? I am a big fan of Enyas too and have various versions in collection. Been thinking about using the pumped one for the Phoenix, but they weigh almost as much as the OS-61SF-P.

Anyone using the 61SF-P and how did it balance out?
Matt

Quote:
ORIGINAL: edp

Here is the bullet I put in my bird. It is a Webra Speed .61 with the Mac Black Pipe. I have had no problems w/ the fuel tank location at any rpm range. I have another one to put in my Deception that is in the glassing. Both are NIB engines. We don't have anyone using the new EVO engines yet in our area. I did check my rudder and it is still nice and tight so thanks for the heads up on that!
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:45 AM
  #782
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Huang

Ed I just noticed from your earlier photo on the Webra post... is that an Enya 60XF-4 I see in the Intruder in the background? I am a big fan of Enyas too and have various versions in collection. Been thinking about using the pumped one for the Phoenix, but they weigh almost as much as the OS-61SF-P.

Anyone using the 61SF-P and how did it balance out?
Matt

Quote:
ORIGINAL: edp

Here is the bullet I put in my bird. It is a Webra Speed .61 with the Mac Black Pipe. I have had no problems w/ the fuel tank location at any rpm range. I have another one to put in my Deception that is in the glassing. Both are NIB engines. We don't have anyone using the new EVO engines yet in our area. I did check my rudder and it is still nice and tight so thanks for the heads up on that!


The Phoenix 8 was designed to be flown with the OS .61 FSR size and style of engine. Back then we would just stick a Robart pump on the engine and plug away at flying. None of the small block, modern, reduced size, light weight alleged 60s make that kind of horsepower.



Ed Cregger
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:43 AM
  #783
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: NM2K

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Huang

Ed I just noticed from your earlier photo on the Webra post... is that an Enya 60XF-4 I see in the Intruder in the background? I am a big fan of Enyas too and have various versions in collection. Been thinking about using the pumped one for the Phoenix, but they weigh almost as much as the OS-61SF-P.

Anyone using the 61SF-P and how did it balance out?
Matt

Quote:
ORIGINAL: edp

Here is the bullet I put in my bird. It is a Webra Speed .61 with the Mac Black Pipe. I have had no problems w/ the fuel tank location at any rpm range. I have another one to put in my Deception that is in the glassing. Both are NIB engines. We don't have anyone using the new EVO engines yet in our area. I did check my rudder and it is still nice and tight so thanks for the heads up on that!


The Phoenix 8 was designed to be flown with the OS .61 FSR size and style of engine. Back then we would just stick a Robart pump on the engine and plug away at flying. None of the small block, modern, reduced size, light weight alleged 60s make that kind of horsepower.



Ed Cregger
Right...which makes you wonder why they just don't make the OS .61FSR, Hanno, Webra Speed .61 etc. any more. Some of the change in engines these days is just change for change sake. I mean, tell me what was wrong with the Hanno in the grand scheme of things that would indicate the motor should be discontinued? Crazy... Also, at the end of the day some of these new "60's in the case of a 40" just get nuts when you put them in a 40-sized plane (prop clearance, tank size etc.). Kind of nice going the other way though

Tis what it tis....60 degrees tomorrow. I'm leaving work early to fly!

Tom
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Well, I'm not saying that things should stay the same. After all, I remember when the schneurle ported engines first came out. What a serious increase in horsepower that was in those days. But there seems to be some belief that the new smaller format ".60" sized engines (few are actually 10cc of displacement), are so advanced that they outpower the old timey 10cc pattern engines. I have yet to see it in reality. I put my modern 10cc engines (small case) in .40 to .50 sized models and enjoy the surplus power and the ability of swinging larger props than their .46 sized counterparts.

After all, we're just talking here.


Ed, NM2K


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Old 04-12-2012, 05:21 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Matt,
That is a Bob Smith all glass T2A I'm finishing.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:58 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Well, Ed, I can assure you that the Evo .60NX exceeds the power I got from .61 F-SR's back in the day. My first real pattern model in 1976 was a P-6 with the, BTW, "Perry" pump, not Robart, and the Perry pump carb. They would barely turn a Rev-Up 11x7.5 at 14,000. My Evo turns an APC 11x7, a prop with much more load then the Rev-Up, at an easy 13,800 to 14,000. And I haven't checked it yet for RPM with the Perry pump and carb on it. It sure sounds faster.

Now I haven't yet totally sorted out the pump installation on the Evo. Plumbing it with a return line as posted in this thread did help the mid-range quite a bit. I need to fly it some more to make sure it's a working solution. But if it doesn't end up being the solution, I do have a NIB O.S. .60F-SR w/Perry pump and carb I could stick in it. Using the .60F-SR is a little scary because we broke shafts on those. The .61F-SR went to a bigger diameter shaft to solve that problem. Lucky for me I have the parts to convert my .60 to a .61F-SR. Or maybe the NIB YS .60 I have. I'd have no problem using these if I need to. Just can't get any parts for them.

BTW, the P-8 was a lot easier to get the tank in line with the carb. That's why they put the little sccop on the bottom of the nose of a P-8 vs the nose of what we're talking about here, the P-7.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: TonyF

Well, Ed, I can assure you that the Evo .60NX exceeds the power I got from .61 F-SR's back in the day. My first real pattern model in 1976 was a P-6 with the, BTW, ''Perry'' pump, not Robart, and the Perry pump carb. They would barely turn a Rev-Up 11x7.5 at 14,000. My Evo turns an APC 11x7, a prop with much more load then the Rev-Up, at an easy 13,800 to 14,000. And I haven't checked it yet for RPM with the Perry pump and carb on it. It sure sounds faster.

Now I haven't yet totally sorted out the pump installation on the Evo. Plumbing it with a return line as posted in this thread did help the mid-range quite a bit. I need to fly it some more to make sure it's a working solution. But if it doesn't end up being the solution, I do have a NIB O.S. .60F-SR w/Perry pump and carb I could stick in it. Using the .60F-SR is a little scary because we broke shafts on those. The .61F-SR went to a bigger diameter shaft to solve that problem. Lucky for me I have the parts to convert my .60 to a .61F-SR. Or maybe the NIB YS .60 I have. I'd have no problem using these if I need to. Just can't get any parts for them.

BTW, the P-8 was a lot easier to get the tank in line with the carb. That's why they put the little sccop on the bottom of the nose of a P-8 vs the nose of what we're talking about here, the P-7.


Well, TonyF, if you are who I think you are, your word is good enough for me to buy said Evolution and give it a try.

I never had much luck with the Perry pumps and carb setup. I preferred the Robart pumps and stock carburetors. The OS .61F-SR came with a reducer in the carb. No big optional third party carb was necessary with the Robart pump and this particular engine's carb. But you knew that.


Ed, NM2K
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:37 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Ed I love the all vintage 60 big case short strokes too! (especially when bore x stroke = 24x22mm like the YS60, 60FSR, Enya 60XF etc.) they are just sweet. But the modern small case 60s are significantly lighter, and there's definitely nothing wrong with trying to go lighter, right? If the big case 60s will require tail weight (or surgery to move components back) on the P7 I would prefer the lighter engine.

Power-wise it depends on engine. The Jett 60 I have turned great numbers from its small case. Was considering this for P7 but it will likely have same fuel draw issues. The Evo also seem to be turning good numbers from small case. Coincidently the 60NX is 24 x 21.5mm for bore x stroke, fairly close to what we had, with even shorter stroke. I've yet to see one run. Will see how Tony's setup turns out with pump.

On the classic engines YS-60FS is a great fit. It isn't as heavy as the 61SF-P (plus the SF is a long stroke) and it screams on pipe. But it isn't available anymore. [] That's why so many are using the 60NX, it is available and no need go wondering on ebuy everyday
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:38 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

edp: Beautiful plane!! =D
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:47 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

A fully equipped Horiaon ARF P-7, with the electric retracts, total weight ? 7.25 - 7.75 lbs ? Travel back to early '70's, fully equipped P-6, total weight, 8.0+ lbs. ? The Super-Tigre G-61's, then the OS 61's, plus the 61 SF, were torque monster's. I am not sure if you put this Evolution 60 on an 8+ lb. plane, is going to do the job. Tony, you should be able to give us the best opinion on this.

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Old 04-17-2012, 08:15 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Looks Like Great Planes Has Joined The Likes Of Horizon Hobbies, & Ressurected TheirClassic Pattern Plane.....

THEDIRTYBIRDY60


YEAH !!!!!





Manual - http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpma1975-manual.pdf
Website - http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1975.html

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Old 04-17-2012, 09:45 AM
  #792
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Very cool, I have always liked the soft lines of BridiĀ“s planes.
This Great Planes poduct video is done exactly the way you think that kind of plane needs to be flown. Well done!
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Phoenix 7 how will a YS 60 FR for work this airplane?

Thanks

Tim
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Well, I just got in 5 flights today with the Phoenix 7/Evo .60NX at Bear Mountain getting ready for the contest the weekend after this. The Perry Pump is working great now that I plumbed it with the return line as posted here a while back. I really don't know why it works, but it really does. I have a Perry Pump Carb from my O.S. .60F-SR on the engine now but I may try the stock one just to see if with the return line it will work.

I'm running an APC 11x7, 15% Coolpower fuel and a Rossi R-8 plug. Before I put the R-8 in it was popping a plug every flight. And that was with an extra head shim installed. The original R-8 flew the 5 flights today and is still good.

This set-up is making very good power. More then I have had before because now I can get a much better needle setting without it going lean at times. The model is moving right along and is really flying well. Chip Hyde got a couple of flights on it today and he was impressed. If I had a P-7 fly like this in 1977 I would have been king!

I will post pics of the installation when I get the camera unloaded. It is an unusual installation but it is working well. Thanks to the forum for the return line tip! It got everything working.

Hope some of you can make it out to Bear Mountain on April 28th and 29th. Along with regular AMA Pattern Chip has got some great stars coming out to fly Classic. Myself, Jim and Matt Kimbro, Richard Verano, Rusty Van Baren and a real special guest. Joe Bridi is planning on coming out. Should be a blast!
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

I posted the return line thing...I have not figured out the logic behind that either but it worked. The only thing that I can think of is the carb uses what it needs, then extra pressure/volume is bled back to the tank via the return line making it almost like an 'on demand' delivery system. Higher RPMS use more and return less while, low rpms use less and return more which is what makes it work in the midrange of our engines.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:29 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

jeff

yes the return line, is intended to be smaller so to retain adequate pressure, modern auto engines us this type of fuel return on injection systems.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:30 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

I got in 5 more flights today. I switched to an 11x8 APC and boy did it come alive! The set-up is turning that prop at 14,200 set to the flying needle valve setting and it is moving along! I did put in a Rossi R-5 plug and that seems to work well. It is just too much fun, if there is such a thing. Should be a blast at the upcoming Bakersfield contest.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Here's a pic of the pump installation. If I started fresh I might be able to come up with something cleaner, but this is working.

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Old 04-19-2012, 09:43 PM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Finally, a photo, thanks. Now I understand the T-fitting to return the excess fuel.

Now we need some more details, what pipe and and what pipe length from glow plug to baffle are you using? What kind of fuel?
What bore ID size has that nice old Perry carb? Is that a filter thingy on the carb opening?

14.200 on 11x8 APC is really good.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:54 AM
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Default RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

Hey you Mob
I need to buy a Evo .60 now but were.

Thanx CrocEnd

PS none in Aussie
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