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  1. #851
    KLXMASTER14's Avatar
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    May I recommend Spring-Air? In over 18 hours of flight time I have not experienced any type of failure. Gear up is optional, gear down is mandatory.

    Best regards,
    Robert
    West Coast Regional Director- Classic Pattern Association
    Team Tailwinds

  2. #852

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    koenig,

    I've played with pretty much all of the electric gears available. There are too many failure reports of the e-flite 60-120 size retracts for glow applications although Horizon will replace them if they fail.

    If money is no object you can check out the new Robart electric retracts. The one you want to look at is the 590 PRS series (click "mains" or "nose" first and then click "electric" ). They use the same retract mechanism as the Robart mechanical and pneumatic, the only difference is the actuator is electric. However the Robarts differ from the e-flights in that there are no PCBs in the retract units themselves to fail under vibration. There is a separate "control unit", which is a receiver sized box mounted inside the fuse so that it can be foam wrapped and mounted away from vibration and the elements. That controls the retracts and can be configured for delay and such. The control unit is actually produced by a electric retract company called "Down and Locked" and is included when you order the Robart mains. The nose unit is purchased separately but require the control unit to operate. You can order from Robart directly. They are however expensive and heavy.

    The best cost effective option is what I call "Chinatracts" very popular with large EDFs and are much cheaper ($15~20 each). They are produced by a company called PZ in China and are rebranded everywhere. Hobby People sells them as Hobby People retracts. The one that you want is the large one - 10-12lb electric retracts with metal trunnion. It does not include gear wire and the trunnion is drilled for 5mm so harder to find gear wire. It also does not have a nose gear unit so you will have to fabricate the steering mechanism yourself - not hard to do. I've had excellent results with these on the H9 Phoenix and as a result our club members are buying up a lot of them. I mounted the units on rubber pads and far no vibration issues at all. More work but a lot cheaper, and the results look and work great.

    There's plenty of options for pneumatics and all seem to work well. A final option would be mechanicals. I like the old EZ Supra mechanical retracts (the first generation green metal ones designed by Hanno) and always felt they are better designed than the MKs. They are expensive and hard to acquire, but Hobbico makes an exact copy of it. The tricycle unit only costs $19.99 from Tower. Although they do not have the quality fit and finish of the original EZs they perform exactly the same and are readily available. I would just go this route if you go mechanicals.

    Hope that helps! You will enjoy the Phoenix on a fast low fly by, gear up!
    Matt

  3. #853
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Southern Pro (now Dave Brown) were hard to beat for mechanicals. I think these are still sold. A little on the heavy side but compared to electrics they should be quite a bit lighter.
    Regards,
    MattK
    (Rcmaster199@aol.com)

  4. #854

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    I like the idea of mechanical retracts, is this plane set up for it?

  5. #855

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Phoenix was not really setup for mechanical retracts. The manual shows set up for Robart pneumatics, although I don't see why you can't put mechanicals in. You will have to cut and mount a retract servo in the wing and route the pushrods through a cutout in the plastic well, and use a separate retract servo for the nose.

    Electric retracts are by far easiest, if you go with Robart electrics it is literally plug and play, as they are exactly same size as the pneumatics. PZ retracts work great too at much lower cost if you can make a steering mechanism for the nose.

    I recall my Southern Pro (Dave Brown) nose retract unit to be firewall mounted. If that is the case it may not work well for the P7 because the retract hardwood rails will be in the way. It is easier to use one that is belly mounted, like the Hobbico/EZ.

    The Dirty Birdy ARF otoh was setup for Hobbico mechanicals from the start, manual includes templates for the linkages.
    Matt

  6. #856

    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Hey Guys, this might be a good time to pick up a new P-7 or a second one.

    >>

    I was at HH site today and it looks like their running a special on the P-7’s.

    http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/phoenix-7-pattern-60-arf-HAN4755

    >>

    It’s listed for only $249.99, that’s better than the GP DB! Wow!

    Paul Pappas, AMA 42520
    www.NECPO.org

  7. #857
    KLXMASTER14's Avatar
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    That's the steal of a deal!!! Might have to pick up one and stick it in the shed for when the inevitable happens.

    -Robert
    West Coast Regional Director- Classic Pattern Association
    Team Tailwinds

  8. #858

    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Hey Robert, it sure is Bud!!

    Paul Pappas, AMA 42520
    www.NECPO.org

  9. #859

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Actually, that price has been around for the better part of last month on the other well know site + free shipping. I pickup one for $217 (damage box) - kit was in excellent shape. You can get slightly better deals if you let your fingers to the probing.

  10. #860

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    How will a 91 4s fit in P7 and effect cg?

    Tim


  11. #861
    KLXMASTER14's Avatar
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!


    ORIGINAL: tgwhitley

    *How will a 91 4s fit in P7 and effect cg?

    Tim

    Tim,
    I know that it has been done. I can't give any specifics, but if you review this lengthy thread, I believe that you may well find your answer.

    -Robert
    West Coast Regional Director- Classic Pattern Association
    Team Tailwinds

  12. #862
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    I'm recuperating from some surgery and finishing up my P7 finally. I'm installing Dave Brown Southern Pro mechanical retracts. Interestingly, I found the H9 factory nose gear rails and the fuselage servo plate remove surprisingly easily with minimal tugging/prying/flexing the fuse sides, etc. A little measuring and drilling, and you can then bolt the Southern Pro nose unit to the rear of the firewall. I had Kraft electric retracts in my P7 and other pattern planes back in the day and they were very reliable UNTIL the advent of high-reving engines and tuned pipes. Even though mounted in a foam-lined box, the nose gear predictably failed after about 12-15 flights. The vibration would kill the motorand/or breakwires. I finally got fedup with it, jerked outthe Kraft nose gear, and installed a Southern Pro nose unit activated by a servo in the fuse. The Kraft mains were left in. End of retract problems!

    I weighed the Southern units minus strut, and they are about 1.7 oz each. My two retract servos weigh about 1.5 oz each. The P7 instructions say nothing about it, but thereis a retract servo mount in the wing root, accessable just by cutting away the Ultracote. Will try to post some pics when I get the install done. You can operateall three gears from a single servo in the wing, but the nose hookup is kind of a painwhen assembling themodel at the field. I always felt the extra 1.5 oz weight penaltywas worth the convenience. I believe the units are currently available, andyou can even order individual replacement parts.
    Gear up, and \"on the pipe\".

  13. #863
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Weighed my entire Dave Brown retract "system" all together, minus struts.  All three units and one retract servo weigh just over 6 oz.  Add the second servo (which I intend to use) for an all-up weight of 7.5 oz.
    Gear up, and \"on the pipe\".

  14. #864
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!



    Finished everything up and logged in a couple test flights on Sunday. Wind was terrible with 12-15 mph gusty crosswind (but this IS Texas and that's what pattern planes are made for). Very little trim required for normal straight and level flight. Hard to tell about much else under those conditions. Gave every indication of being a sweet bird.

    Final flying weight came out to 7-3/4 lbs with Dave Brown mechanical retracts and 2 JR retract servos, O.S. 61SF with Mac's muffler. Used a Zinger 11x7.5 prop, Powermaster 10%. Will try to get some pics up of the retract install. This forum was a lot of help in getting this ship in the air. Thanks to everyone!

    Gear up, and \"on the pipe\".

  15. #865

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Hi RCDENT,
    Can you give some rpm specs on the OS61SF too?
    Thanks

  16. #866
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Sorry, only about 12 grand. I was using an old, tired 61SF ringed. I think it needs a new ring. Runs OK, just doesn't have the power one would expect. Swapped it out for a brand new one this week, but it'll require some break in and tweaking. Hope to get some flights on it tomorrow, but weather doesn't look too promising. I decided to maiden the plane with the old engine, so if the worst happened, I wouldn't be sticking a brand new OS in the dirt. Now that I have some confidence in the plane, I'm anxious to get the new engine going. Will probably put a pipe on it at some point. I'm thinking 11x7.5 or 11x8 Zinger props. Anyone have any other suggestions? Have been running Powermaster 10% fuel with Rossi R7 plugs.

    I'm thinking I may have to run one of the Perry pumps to deal with the tank position issue, even though I'm using a Hayes 16oz tank which is a bit lower than the kit tank.
    Gear up, and \"on the pipe\".

  17. #867

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    12x8 as a minimum with muffler i seriously doubt the need for a pump

  18. #868

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    I'd never get away with an 11" prop on noise grounds!
    I run my SFs on a 12*10WAPCwith a full length pipe for pulling a 7 1/2 lb Tornado or 12*9 with a short throttle pipe on an 8 1/4 lb foam and glass Blue Angel.
    I've got one in a Jungmeister turning a 13*7 with a Pitts muffler.

  19. #869

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    What should the rpm's be set when pulling a APC12x10w with the OS61SF?

  20. #870

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!


    ORIGINAL: computermonkey

    What should the rpm's be set when pulling a APC12x10w with the OS61SF?
    Sorry, I'm not sure I understand the question. If you mean what rpm will it turn that prop at, I really don't know but I'd guess around 10k on the ground. I think 'enough' would be the answer for me. The engine is set as with any other prop, peak revs then back off a few notches though with the pipe there's some trial and error involved as the revs pick up a fair bit in flight so it needs to be richer than usual on the ground.


  21. #871

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Ya sorry I wasn't all that clear. I was wondering what the engine turned with the 12x10w. I was thinking that sounded pretty big for the SF. I remember the Hanno's turning that size of prop.

  22. #872

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    at the club Ifly with the noise is strictly monitored so getting it under 80dBa at 7 metres was the defining factor rather than outright performance but lets say the power is adequate for the Tornado, a typical sort of mid 70s pattern model
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #873

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    robc57 thanks for sharing. Interesting to know how others participate in the hobby.

  24. #874
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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Didn't get to fly today. Yesterday was rain and today worse wind than last Sunday. It's apparent from the last few posts that I'm WAY under-proping the SF. I guess I'm just "lost in the '80's", longing for the scream of short stroke Rossi's and YS's. My old SF was a hand me down from my son-in-law and had been happy in my Hangar 9 P-51 .60 turning 13x6 and 13/7 with a scale type muffler. I'm going to order an assortment of 12 inchers for the new SF. I'm also thinking of ordering the "pre-tuned" Macs pipe system that Tower Hobbies shows for the SF. Any thoughts? I'll let everyone know how it works out when I get some air time of the setup. Thanks for everyone's input!
    Gear up, and \"on the pipe\".

  25. #875

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    RE: Scoop! Hangar 9 Phoenix 7...ARF!!!

    Be careful of the pre-tuned pipe from MACS. I think you might find them to short for the 12 inch props.


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