dhal22

relisted a year after we discussed it so much.

dhal22

170402267012

ScottMcM

My Feedback: (66)

I'm staying out of it this time

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

I thought that .6125 cubic inches was 10cc. Why make a .67 CID engine for a class that specifies a 10cc engine size limit?


Ed Cregger

lfinney

My Feedback: (44)

its just a parts motor, no biggie , but it would sure show its heels to any of its 61 competitors, love those nelson sleeve and piston combo's, shadel sold a alot of them

TFF

Not NIB; been modified to "cheater" specs. So unless it had some historical value like won the World Champs and disqualified in a big scandel, is just a hacked up old engine that could be worth something if put right.

dhal22

it makes for discussion, therein the reason for the post.

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Geez, we beat it to death a year ago. I might buy it to satisfy my curiosity and put and end to these 'discussions'
I'd like to see how much machine work has been done and I'm really curious as to how it runs... it's only $$$ [X(]
Will B.
PS plus I feel guilty for being involved somewhat negatively in the original thread[&o]

nitrobill65

My Feedback: (68)

it runs beautifully.the only reason i am selling it is i do not fly pattern.i like speed. ops 40 pylon , x-40 st. etc. etc. the hanno is not a rever. i have a VF .61 with a nelson heli sleeve and piston in it. it turns a 11x8 apc at 15700 rpm on the ground. you get the idea. any ways if i offended any of you guys i am sorry. and flywilly you will really like this engine. i just can not get over the fact that no engine manufacture out there ever came close to Nelson in quality or enginering performance. any ways have a great day.

nitrobill65

My Feedback: (68)

oh and there is only the exhaust port that has been matched to the sleeve. there was no other machining or anything else changed.

nitrobill65

My Feedback: (68)

ehhh , scotty. hows it going.

nitrobill65

My Feedback: (68)

parts motor. wow! ya, the only one of it,s kind.

nitrobill65

My Feedback: (68)

TFF hmmmmmmmm special.

nitrobill65

My Feedback: (68)

oh and fly willy if you are not happy with it, just send it back. i will gladly refund you your money.

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hi Nitrobill65,
I wouldn't bid on it if I didn't think I'd be happy with it !
Nelson's parts are excellent - probably the best made. Based on my conversations with Henry, they are relatively labor intensive (making chromed piston/sleeve assemblies) and would cost manufacturers wayyyy too much to reproduce. Dave Shadel (one of Henry's biggest distributors) has told me he thinks Henry uses a little 'black magic' to do the chroming. Apparently, it is not easy to produce a chromed sleeve that has the performance and durability for our (modeling) harsh environment.
YS chromed parts are also very high quality.
One final point: part of the chroming process produces very toxic waste (or at least it used to) and this is another production issue.
I bet your 61VF screams. I'm running a 61VF (stock) with a 12x8 APC flies great. I don't miss the 2-stroke scream, quiet is good these days (keeps flying sites), but I had plenty of screamin' 60's back in 'good old days' of pattern (especially a YS 60FR with a 10.5x7.5 prop - eeehaa!![X(])
Regards,
Will
PS I'm a diehard hockey player and fan - I grew up outside of Boston during the Bobby Orr era!

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

I now have the infamous BLUEHEAD Hanno in my possession. It is exactly as advertised. The stock Hanno bore is .906" A quick measurement of the Bluehead indicated .942" on my digital micrometer, clearly larger than stock. If accurate, then the displacement computes to about .66cu". I suspect I forgot to 'zero' my micrometer as the bore would need to be .950" for a displacement of .67cu" (but that's only an error of .008).. The head is orginal OS as stated. The case has a Hanno serial number (#3111). The exhaust port of the case has been modified to match the diagonal porting of the Nelson liner (as opposed to the stock Hanno 'notches'). I have not run the engine as yet, but I'm sure the stated RPMs are pretty accurate (13.5x10 at 10,000) as the engine has at least 8% more displacement than stock.
-Will

Roguedog

Hey flywilly.

From what I read from your post your blue head has the same bore as a short stroke 61FSR/VF 0.945 or 24mm. Could you measure how deep blue head the protrudes into the liner? Also which crankshaft is it using the 61FSR/VF (22mm stroke), SF/RF(24mm stroke), or the Hanno (24mm stroke)? The hanno crank has the anti-corrosion disk plate cast right next to the counter balance.

I have tried several ways to create a .66 or .67cu out of different combinations of FSR/VF and SF/RF parts. The only feasible way to do it without the bluehead (don't have one so couldn't check to see if it would work) would be to shave at least 2mm off a stock FSR/VF head to compensate for the longer stroke (0.945 or 24mm) of the SF/RF/Hanno crankshaft.

If the blue head protrudes into the liner less than a FSR/VF head it's definintly a true .66cu if the bluehead is the same as a 61FSR/VF head than it's a short stroke .61cu with the hanno carb and pump.

So far the only combination I could come up with was to use the 61VF crank, conrod, piston & liner, and head in a RF case all these parts are interchangable. On this engine I also included the carb and pump from 61RF-P.

Bryan

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hi Bryan,
Except for the head, piston and liner all the remaining parts are stock Hanno Special. The Bluehead has the same dimensions as the stock Hanno head as far sa depth into the sleeve. Obviously it fits the slightly larger bore. The Nelson liner looks like a stock (Nelson stock) Hanno liner that has been bored out to the larger diameter (which is only about 4/100s "). If you bore out the stock OS case you will remove the alignment pin for the liner at the top of the case; so I don't know how much more bore you can get. Of course the biggest problem is finding a head to fit the larger bore cylinder. The .65VFDF would probably work, especially the 'small' head with normal sized cooling fins. I wonder if you could get Dubb Jett to build one of his engines with a Hanno backplate pump and carb, but in the 1.00 displacement size.
I hope this helps,
Will

Atlanta 60

My Feedback: (18)

Kewl stuff!! Will I'm glad you got the engine...

Looking forward to hearing how it runs...

Not 100% positive but I'm pretty sure I sorta know how this engine originated...I was doing a google search for bolly pipes a few years ago and sure enough found a guy selling one on the RC Canada website...I noticed he had another listing which contained a bunch of Hanno engine parts probably enough to build two engines with spare's left over...I couldn't really afford it at the time and when I went back a week later it was already sold...I'm kinda kicking myself because there was allot of good stuff in that pile but I specifically remember the blue head which I liked allot and there were a few spare pumps...The dude was super cool and we chatted a bit...I was sad I missed out on the parts stash...If I knew then what I know now I would have found a way to make it happen...he he

So I'm not 100% positive but I think that's what probably led to this engine being created...I think I remember the dude told me that the guy who bought the parts was sort of an engine guru up there in Canada...

Have Fun...

Chuck

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hi Chuck,
That makes sense. Whoever put this engine together knew what he was doing. By the way, I would guess that the engine has never been flow and barely been run. It looks virtually brand new inside and out.
-Will

Roguedog

Flywilly,

Hate to beat a dead dog, but-
I just sat down this morning and again tried to put together a .66cu out of all the spare parts I have and here's what I have found.

1. The Hanno/SF/RF conrod is 2mm longer than the 61FSR/VF/SFN conrod. With the Hanno/SF/RF conrod in there the piston would hit the head. I just tried this again. Doesn't work, so must be a conrod off a FSR/VF/SFN or SFN-H engine. see pic

2. Performance Specialties (Nelson?) made 61VF P&L sets (I have 2 of them, see pic) and they fit perfectly into the SF/RF and Hanno cases, both the VF and Hanno/SF/RF crankcases have 28mm bores. The stock bore of the Hanno/SF/RF liners are 1mm less (23mm) than the 61VF liners (24mm).

3. I concure. I just compared the FSR/VF head to a SF/RF head ( don't have a hanno head but it's tha same only anodized red), the difference in the depth is 2mm. The FSR/Vf head protrudes 5mm into the liner, while the SF/RF head protrudes 3mm and allows for full piston travel with the FSR/VF conrod. Only problem is that the SF/RF head has a .5mm gap between the liner wall and protrusion. This might work but would obviously lower the compression ratio a tad. I guess I'll have to give it a try and see if it works.

If you measured the width of the protrusion and that's where you got the .942" measurement and it protrudes only 3mm, thats' Awsome and I want one. The last pic is of a FSR/VF head and to fit in a .945" (24mm) diameter bore it measures .942" on my calipers.

OK enough of beating the dog.
Bryan

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hi Bryan,
I thought we were beating a dead horse... not a dog. It's never dead if you can get it to run!!
OK, I got some VF and RF parts together and I understand what you are trying to do - get more displacement from an RF by using the larger bore VF piston/sleeve. The problem is that the 'lip' of the sleeve in the VF is about 2mm thinner than the RF version which is why the piston hits the head when you use the RF rod. You will either need to shim the head 'up' from the top of the liner or trim the edges of the combustion chamber in the head. I would only try the former (shimming) as removing material from the head is permanent and may have other negative consequences. Running a VF rod will just make it a VF in an RF case. You might try asking in the engine forum or try calling/emailing Henry Nelson directly as he may have some suggestions/advice. It would be nice to find an inexpensive source for the OS 'blueheads' and have Henry make a few of the large bore Hanno piston/sleeve sets.
Regards,
Will

Roguedog

Will,

I forgot to mention that the crankshaft in the SF/RF/Hanno has a 24mm stroke vs. the 22mm stroke of the FSR/VF crank. This makes the Blue a square engine 24mm stroke and 24mm bore. Remember the chevy 327 engine? Lotsa cool factor here. The determining factor is the 24mm stroke of the SF/RF/Hanno crankshafts. Using a longer or shorter conrod in not going to change the displacement of the engine,. Using the long stroke conrod would just move the piston higher into the liner and in this case the long stroke conrod would definitly hit the head. The only way that the long stroke conrod would work is if the Blue head only protrudes 1mm into the liner.

Using a RF case, RF crankshaft, RF head, VF piston & liner, and the FSR/VF conrod, I was able to put together a .66cu engine although as I mentioned before the SF/RF head is .906'' (23mm) and leaves a 0.5mm gap between liner and the head at the top of the cylinder. This might work but will definitly lower the compression a tad. I will have to try it.

Bryan

flywilly

My Feedback: (121)

Hi Bryan,
Will the VF head fit? I can't imagine that gap (even though small) will improve performance. The porting on the VF sleeve is a bit different from the Hanno sleeve. The VF intake port is square vs the Hanno rectangle and I think the timing may be a bit different. The boost ports appear to be about the same. Obviously the exhaust ports are different as the Hanno has the infamous 'notches'. I also thought about using the short stroke(VF) rod with the Hanno crankshaft. Some quick calculations seem to indicate that you will be advancing the exhaust timing and retarding the intake timing by about 3 degrees. While not a huge number, I suspect this may not improve performance. Of course, running the engine will provide the final answers. I'd try props from 11x7 to 12x10 (adjusting the pipe length accordingly). The engine is now 'square' (bore=stroke) with porting for high rpm performance; so it will be interesting to see how it runs.
I'd be interested to read a performance report.
Good Luck,
Will

Roguedog

Will,

The 61VF and 61FSR heads are the same and should fit into the Blue based on your measurement of .942". The only problem is this is where I believe the Blue Head is different than the VF/FSR head. I'm speculating that the bluehead only protrudes 3mm into the liner while the VF/FSR has a depth of 5mm. As you previously mentioned you would have to use 2mm of head gasket shims to utilize the VF/FSR head.

I've been curious about the timing on these engines for a while and decided to try and measure the differences. I bought a degree wheel and drilled it out to fit the crankshafts (1st & 2nd pics). Utilizing available information from the Hanno article as a starting point, I compiled a timing table (3rd pic) for each of the engines we've been talking about

(Note! These Measurements are a close approximation of the representative timings for these engines. If more accurate timing specs exsist, please post them here.)

1. Stock 61FSR, bore 24mm and stroke 22mm, no mods
2. Stock 61RF, bore 23mm and stroke 24mm, no mods
3. Stock Hanno, bore 23mm and stroke 24mm, no mods
and
4. My version of the hybred .66cu bore (24mm and stroke 24mm) engine using the parts I have on hand - RF crankshaft, VF piston and liner, VF conrod, RF crankcase, RF head.

The table clearly shows the differences in timings. Clarence Lee states in the RCM Hanno Article that advancing exhaust timing would increase top end rpm"Higher exhaust timing would also favor higher rpm operation." About the exhaust notches he says "This is a torque increasingmodfrist use on competition motorcyle engines."

I included a pdf of the table (attachment.pdf) and the Excel spreadsheet file.You will need to right click on it (attachment.txt) and do a 'save as' and change the extension form txt to xls to use the spreadsheet..

Bryan