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Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

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Old 09-14-2010, 05:52 PM
  #26
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

To clean the engine use Dawn Power Dissolver. Get it at Wally's World or Ace Hardware. Its about $3.50 a bottle and works great to clean engines. To do it, disassemble the engine and soak the parts (except the Gold head) in the Dawn for about 10-20 minutes. then using a toothbrush, give each part a good scrubbing. Rinse each part thoroughly with water and IMMEDIATELY spray with WD-40. The Dawn like any degreaser will remove all protection from the metal and it will immediately begin to rust unless protected with a film of oil. Place the head in a shallow pan of Dawn so that the liquid is not high enough to touch the gold annodizing and then clean the inside of the head with the toothbrush, rinse and oil. Make sure that when you clean the carb, that no plastic or rubber parts are left to soak in the Dawn lest they get Dissolved (surprise!). Reassemble the engine with a good after-run oil (I mix my own, but the Tower after-run is a good product) and you are good to go.

Scott
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

I have posted a shot of several vintage engines. Top left is the Enya .60 II/III which was Phil Kraft's weapon of choice during the glory days of the Kwik Fli III. Top right is a Lee/Veco .61 from the same period. These were "bypass-ported" engines. On the bottom row is an O.S. .61SF and a vintage Rossi .60. The O.S. and Rossi shown are both "Schnurle-ported" engines, and because of the port arrangement with ports fore and aft of the cylinder, they are physically longer. The calipers are set at the length of the longer engines and shown next to the older engines. Also pictured is a backplate style mount used on the Kwik Fli III, which were about 1/8 to 1/4 in. thick aluminum.

You can see that if you use a Schnurle-ported engine and a later style mount, you will increase the length of the nose substantially, possibly affecting the appearance and balance of the plane. I would recommend sticking with a period-correct engine, or use a modern small-case engine such as the O.S. .55AX to maintain the original style of the airplane.
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Old 09-18-2010, 04:30 AM
  #28
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RCDENT

I have posted a shot of several vintage engines. Top left is the Enya .60 II/III which was Phil Kraft's weapon of choice during the glory days of the Kwik Fli III. Top right is a Lee/Veco .61 from the same period. These were ''bypass-ported'' engines. On the bottom row is an O.S. .61SF and a vintage Rossi .60. The O.S. and Rossi shown are both ''Schnurle-ported'' engines, and because of the port arrangement with ports fore and aft of the cylinder, they are physically longer. The calipers are set at the length of the longer engines and shown next to the older engines. Also pictured is a backplate style mount used on the Kwik Fli III, which were about 1/8 to 1/4 in. thick aluminum.

You can see that if you use a Schnurle-ported engine and a later style mount, you will increase the length of the nose substantially, possibly affecting the appearance and balance of the plane. I would recommend sticking with a period-correct engine, or use a modern small-case engine such as the O.S. .55AX to maintain the original style of the airplane.


The Enya .60 II was my first real .60 (flew an OS .58 before that). Mine was sold to me used and rebuilt by great friend Bruce Geller (R.I.P.) for $15 in 1970. This was before mufflers (talk about ringing ears!). It powered my second low wing model, a DB Products, Beta, low wing ARF. Wonderful memories.


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Old 09-18-2010, 12:27 PM
  #29
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Thanks for posting that photo RCDENT! The Veco appears to be the shortest of the group.

Today I received the engine that I'll be using on the Kwik FLi, a NIB O.S. Max H60F. I was expecting it to be a bit stiff and gummy since it had never been run, but it was very free and seems to have good compression. This weekend I'm going to try to find a clearer so I can deal with the corrosion issues on the case.

Can someone tell me what would be an appropriate prop for this engine? 12" x 7"?
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Old 09-18-2010, 03:48 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

OS Gold head's will turn almost anything in the 60 size prop range,

mine works best with a Master Airscrew 12 x 6

I found that a 12 x 8 made landings too exciting [X(]


My light weight ugly stick just would not slow down enough at idle with a bigger prop


Johnkpap

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Old 09-25-2010, 07:58 AM
  #31
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Enya make a superb .60 sized job. Didn't Phil have a liking for Enya ?
BTW its not cheap but a superb piece of engineering tha will outlast - dare I say it - even an OS.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:59 AM
  #32
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

I used a Kraft .61 in mine and it flies great.

I had to be creative on the mount and did this: [link=http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/fuselage%2010.JPG] Engine Mount [/link]http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/fuselage%2010.JPG

Here is the finished install: [link=http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/QF%20Rfront.JPG] Finished Engine [/link]http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/QF%20Rfront.JPG

Here is my build supplement: [link=http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/qwic_fly_iii_build.htm] Kwik Fly Build [/link]http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/qwic_fly_iii_build.htm


Cheers,

Marty
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:09 PM
  #33
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnkpap

OS Gold head's will turn almost anything in the 60 size prop range,

mine works best with a Master Airscrew 12 x 6

I found that a 12 x 8 made landings too exciting [X(]


My light weight ugly stick just would not slow down enough at idle with a bigger prop


Johnkpap
Thanks for the prop info Johnpap! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ntsmith
Enya make a superb .60 sized job. Didn't Phil have a liking for Enya ?
BTW its not cheap but a superb piece of engineering tha will outlast - dare I say it - even an OS.
I know Enya's are great performers, I've had several, but I think Phil selected the Enya for the Kwik Fki for it's size and weight rather than it's performance. I could be wrong about that, but I seem to remember reading something along those lines.


Quote:
ORIGINAL : Patrnflier

I used a Kraft .61 in mine and it flies great.

I had to be creative on the mount and did this: Engine Mount http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/fuselage%2010.JPG

Here is the finished install: Finished Engine http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/QF%20Rfront.JPG

Here is my build supplement: Kwik Fly Build http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/qwic_fly_iii_build.htm


Cheers,

Marty
Thanks Marty! I actually came across your build supplement a couple weeks ago while surfing. Great stuff! [sm=49_49.gif]
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:31 PM
  #34
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

This morning I disassembled the O.S. Max H60F. I was a little concerned when I removed the back plate and head and saw what looked like rust on the sleeve! Turned out to be just some dried up oil and goo! The bearings seem good, just a little gummy. Overall the internals look pretty good.

I bought some Eagle One Mag Wheel Cleaner to clean up the corrosion on the cast aluminum parts. This stuff is a blend of three different acids! I tested it on the back plate first. The instructions say to spray it on and let it soak for 30 seconds then rinse with water. So I did that and it did clean it up a bit, but not to where I was hoping it would. So I it did it two more time and each time I let it soak a little longer, 1 minute and again for 2 minutes.

You can see by the photos that there is a definite difference, before and after. But it's still not quite what I was looking for. I was hoping the cleaner would etch the aluminum to the point where it would be a more even color. Somewhat like a new casting would be. Maybe soaking it longer might help, I don't know. I don't want to soak it too long and turn it black! Maybe I'm expecting too much, it does look much better than it did. I might take the back plate to work and hit it lightly with the bead blaster. This might give me what I'm looking for.
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Ralph,
When I was into flying WWII airplanes we used to clean this old bomber we had in natural aluminum with an acid etch from the aviation parts house. I remember it was pretty hot so we mixed it about 1/4 acid to 3/4 water and applied it with washing brush. Rinsed it almost as soon as we got it on the surfaces.
I would think that if you continue to use what you have it'll clean that up. Trouble with going stronger is that you can go too far!
You might call the local airport and find a name of an aluminum acid etching compound for your purposes though.
Chris...
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:22 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Thanks for the info Chris! That sounds like a similar product that is used to clean aluminum truck beds and trailers. Also mixed with water. I've seen it applied with a pressure washer. It leaves the aluminum clean and very bright! I think it's sulfuric acid. That's what I was hoping the wheel cleaner would do. Maybe I'll try soaking it a little longer in the wheel cleaner.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:36 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

That wheel cleaner did an impressive job. Most would call it done at this point. After a very light blast, i would coat the parts in a good corrosion inhibiting penetrating oil such as ACF-50 or CorrosionX etc.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:54 AM
  #38
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

And if this engine has never run, then 20% castor only fuel, 11x6 prop, slobbering rich, ie won't run unless the throttle is full open and plug lit. Then slowly leaning until it will sustain ignition by itself, lots of short runs. 12x6 and 12x7 props are likely to be too big, 11x7 or 11x8 will be the flying props. do not run lean, you can't get new liners and rings, and it will only take one hot run...
Evan, WB #12.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

If you want the engine to look absolutely new, the Prestone green colored 100% solution antifreeze is your only choice. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and be done with it. Nothing comes in a spray can that will come close to cleaning as well as the antifreeze technique. No variations, by the way. Forget the environmentally friendly antifreeze and the red or any other color antifreeze. Prestone, 100%, green antifreeze only. Remember to keep the crock pot on LOW ONLY and to check your engine periodically to ensure that it isn't darkening. Darkening is likely to be caused if Low on your crockpot is too hot.


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Old 09-26-2010, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: R_G


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnkpap

OS Gold head's will turn almost anything in the 60 size prop range,

mine works best with a Master Airscrew 12 x 6

I found that a 12 x 8 made landings too exciting [X(]


My light weight ugly stick just would not slow down enough at idle with a bigger prop


Johnkpap
Thanks for the prop info Johnpap! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ntsmith
Enya make a superb .60 sized job. Didn't Phil have a liking for Enya ?
BTW its not cheap but a superb piece of engineering tha will outlast - dare I say it - even an OS.
I know Enya's are great performers, I've had several, but I think Phil selected the Enya for the Kwik Fki for it's size and weight rather than it's performance. I could be wrong about that, but I seem to remember reading something along those lines.


Quote:
ORIGINAL : Patrnflier

I used a Kraft .61 in mine and it flies great.

I had to be creative on the mount and did this: Engine Mount http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/fuselage%2010.JPG

Here is the finished install: Finished Engine http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/QF%20Rfront.JPG

Here is my build supplement: Kwik Fly Build http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/qwic_fly_iii_build.htm


Cheers,

Marty
Thanks Marty! I actually came across your build supplement a couple weeks ago while surfing. Great stuff! [sm=49_49.gif]


These engines were designed to fly pattern. As such, they were designed to turn 11x7 to 11x8 props only. No 12" anythings, unless you're interested in overheating the engine, losing ring tension and just having an average .60 on the front.

It's early and I'm crabby. Sorry for the 'tude.


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Old 09-26-2010, 02:55 PM
  #41
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Quote:
ORIGINAL: NM2K


Quote:
ORIGINAL: R_G


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnkpap

OS Gold head's will turn almost anything in the 60 size prop range,

mine works best with a Master Airscrew 12 x 6

I found that a 12 x 8 made landings too exciting [X(]


My light weight ugly stick just would not slow down enough at idle with a bigger prop


Johnkpap
Thanks for the prop info Johnpap! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]


Quote:
ORIGINAL: ntsmith
Enya make a superb .60 sized job. Didn't Phil have a liking for Enya ?
BTW its not cheap but a superb piece of engineering tha will outlast - dare I say it - even an OS.
I know Enya's are great performers, I've had several, but I think Phil selected the Enya for the Kwik Fki for it's size and weight rather than it's performance. I could be wrong about that, but I seem to remember reading something along those lines.


Quote:
ORIGINAL : Patrnflier

I used a Kraft .61 in mine and it flies great.

I had to be creative on the mount and did this: Engine Mount http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/fuselage%2010.JPG

Here is the finished install: Finished Engine http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/QF%20Rfront.JPG

Here is my build supplement: Kwik Fly Build http://www.fancyflying.150m.com/qwic_fly_iii_build.htm


Cheers,

Marty
Thanks Marty! I actually came across your build supplement a couple weeks ago while surfing. Great stuff! [sm=49_49.gif]


These engines were designed to fly pattern. As such, they were designed to turn 11x7 to 11x8 props only. No 12'' anythings, unless you're interested in overheating the engine, losing ring tension and just having an average .60 on the front.

It's early and I'm crabby. Sorry for the 'tude.


Ed Cregger


It's early and I'm crabby. Sorry for the 'tude.

Ed,

Be careful, the whole world is reading with you.
The K & B 45 RC was a wonderful engine, I did tell it often before. With 75% of engine volume the engine not even did have a ring, but you could became world champion with it!!
See picture 1


Cees
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:21 PM
  #42
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Yes, things were a lot different even just five years before the time of the Kwik Fli design, but that doesn't change the relevance of my comment. And I did not intend to sound as though I was scolding anyone. That's for sure.

I'm interested in the backplate counter balance weight that was mentioned in the article you posted. Did it engage the crankpin somehow? Or were they incorrectly describing the relief made in the backplate for piston skirt clearance?


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Old 09-26-2010, 03:35 PM
  #43
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Ed,

And I did not intend to sound as though I was scolding anyone. That's for sure.

I understand Ed, I could not resist because it isn't a Dutch engine and I have to tell you this!
About the engine, see picture.

Cees

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Old 09-26-2010, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Holy-moly! How did I miss that?


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Old 09-26-2010, 07:44 PM
  #45
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: pimmnz

And if this engine has never run, then 20% castor only fuel, 11x6 prop, slobbering rich, ie won't run unless the throttle is full open and plug lit. Then slowly leaning until it will sustain ignition by itself, lots of short runs. 12x6 and 12x7 props are likely to be too big, 11x7 or 11x8 will be the flying props. do not run lean, you can't get new liners and rings, and it will only take one hot run...
Evan, WB #12.
Good point about the caster Evan! I hadn't thought about that, but an engine of this vintage should probably be run on caster.

Thanks for the info! [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

RG
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:43 PM
  #46
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

No prob RG, castor is what these things were designed for. I find that, once run in, you can go for the Omega mix of syn and castor, but still at 20%. Modern oils work well with modern engines/clearances, but don't seem to allow the older ringed engines to scrub in properly, too lubricious and the ring/liner ends up glazed and the operator wondering why his low time engine has no compression. I am running a couple of oldies, a pumper 'Lee' K&B and an OS61FSR and with a little care with the fuel and needle settings, and lowish load prop selection, they should last a good time even in the pattern models they fly. Bearings are no problem, but rings and liners...
Evan, WB #12.
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:01 PM
  #47
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

OK, I finally got around to finishing this engine restoration project.

The wire wheel cleaner took care of the corrosion although not as well as I had hoped. I tried bead blasting it to get a more even color/texture on the casting, but the beads we had in our blaster at work were a little course and I wasn't happy with the result. So in the end I just used steel wool and good ole fashioned elbow grease! It took several hours of rubbing, but I think the results are very acceptable and this engine should work out just fine for the Kwik Fli MK III. It has very good compression!

One thing I didn't get with the engine is the carburetor instruction sheet. There is no model number on the carb, just the O.S. logo. Does anyone happen to have a copy of the instructions they can post?

RG
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Old 12-05-2010, 03:52 AM
  #48
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

In my current one I use a Lee Custom K&B 61 PDP, and I would not trade it against any other engine.
My old KF was powered by a Fox Eagle 1 61 and if was nice but no like my K&B.

Just my 2 cents.

Joakim
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Old 12-05-2010, 11:27 AM
  #49
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III


Quote:
ORIGINAL: R_G

OK, I finally got around to finishing this engine restoration project.

The wire wheel cleaner took care of the corrosion although not as well as I had hoped. I tried bead blasting it to get a more even color/texture on the casting, but the beads we had in our blaster at work were a little course and I wasn't happy with the result. So in the end I just used steel wool and good ole fashioned elbow grease! It took several hours of rubbing, but I think the results are very acceptable and this engine should work out just fine for the Kwik Fli MK III. It has very good compression!

One thing I didn't get with the engine is the carburetor instruction sheet. There is no model number on the carb, just the O.S. logo. Does anyone happen to have a copy of the instructions they can post?

RG
You might try using copper cleaner if you want to get the mat finish back. Check out this link http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7496568
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:51 PM
  #50
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Default RE: Engine For Kwik FLi Mk. III

Looks like the copper cleaner does a nice job! I'll have to keep that in mind for future use, I don't really want to tear the engine down again.

Thanks Mike!

RG
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