twostroke

My Feedback: (6)

With the price of the thunder tiger pro 40 going to 100.00 has anyone found a 40 size that is comparable to the preformance of this at a better price? I would like to get our club started with these but would like to keep the start up cost down to a min. Thanks, Twostroke

Tbatt

My Feedback: (4)

The TT 40 Pro is hard to beat.

BarryReade

My Feedback: (1)

If money is an issue you can use a $50 motor and make that mandatory for your clubs Club 40. If anyone goes to another venue that is running RCPRO rules with no exceptions your planes will not be competitive and you can't compare times to see how fast you vare going to the average.

You should be able to get together a group buy for the initial order and get the price down.

still4given

I haven't seen any other .40 size engines that really compare to the TT pro 40. If you are trying to keep costs down you can always run the novice class which uses bushing motors. Those are less money and all pretty equal in power.

You can also say no TT Pro 40's allowed. Then the Super Tigre .40 would probably be king though I hear a properly set up Evolution .40 can give it a pretty good run for it's money. The GMS .40 is pretty good too when you can find them.

Blessings, Terry

Ken Erickson

Although it seems that the general consensus is that the TT Pro is the best, there are people running other brands and doing well with them.

As to "getting started", if you have a sport .40, use it. When you have decided that you really want to do this, competitively, buy a new engine and break it in really well. If you decide you just want to do this for fun, you do not need the "best" engine.

Anway, the manner in which you fly the course is more important than the slight advantage the "best" engine gives you in at least the first year that you do this activity.

There are a number of competitive RCPRO Club 40 racers in Texas who started in RCPRO Club 40 Sport, with the FPs and LA's and clones. As to price, I am buying and selling those engines for $30.00 to local racers. That is done because I am the race promoter. Who among you is a race promoter?

Ken Erickson

Tbatt

My Feedback: (4)

Well said Ken!

Swap shops can be a good source for engines if you know what to look for. One of our local guys found a used TT GP42 that was well broken in and did extremely well in Novice class with that engine. Matter of fact, that was one of the best running GP42 engines we have seen and it was the bench mark for my TT Pro 40 restrictor plate experiment.

The Super Tigre GS 40 is a great running engine too. I think that it is heavier than the TT but it does perform well. I bought my ST GS 40 when they were cheap. Like most good engines, it took a while to get it broken in.

Tim

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

Tim, you wouldnt have any problems with anything if I showed up with an OS 40SF would you? I just picked up on off the "bay" at a SUPER deal that was new but it hasnt arrived yet.
I know it would not be legal to use in C40, Im just wondering what kind of performance it would give vs the Pro 40? The 46Sf I already have hauls the mail !!

Ken Erickson

John,

I know you addressed that question to Tim, but I would have no problem with the OS .40 SF. We had guys using them back in 2007 in Texas. It is in compliance with the national rules. Still, we know that not everyone uses the national rules. If a local group wants to do things differently, we ask (in the Procedures document) that they spell out the differences in their flyer.

Of course, if I had one, I would save it for use on a twin.

Ken Erickson

mdwpylonracer42h

Try the GMS 40 from Tower. It is cheap, has ball bearings, and is pretty competitive with the TT40s. We had guys place 1st thru 3rd with them against a bunch of TT40s.

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

Hello Ken and mdw, I hope that you both are having a great new year.
Basically Ken what we are trying/hoping to do is to keep everyything on a level playing field for all pilots in our area by using the Pro 40 to keep it simple yet fun and somewhat affordable for all involved. Ive got a few spare pro 40's in the engine drawer waiting their turn when they are needed and I have NO IDEA why in the world I bought the 40SF, I guess I couldnt pass up its $46.00 new /never ran price I know, its a sickness and Im trying to do better, ....well, sorta anyway
I hope that you can make at least one of the races down here this year Ken , we would love to have you !!

mdwpylonracer42h

John,

I agree, to an extent. The TT40 should remain the engine of choice even though it's now near $100. However, the guy (twostroke) that opened this thread up was looking for a cheaper alternative and he is in Minnesota. I just feel that the GMS 40s were pretty damn good against the TTs. I think that Club 40 would be better to give alternatives, minus the special production engines of course. And of course, once the GMSs start to show their own you will have more contestants using them - - its kind of like the Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge and Toyota competition in NASCAR. So if proven in actual competition racing events that the GMS is no better or worse, than so be it.

That being said, all out the TT is still the best engine to buy, but I wouldn't mind experimenting with a GMS or two. I have seen guys pretty competitive with these. Personally, I think now that everyone has discovered how great the TTs are, and the more production thats demanded of them, they will go down in quality and up the price. So we need to be flexible.

Just my thoughts.

Mike

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

Well spoken and well taken Mike. You've got some good thoughts there.
John

dphill2

My Feedback: (1)

Everything you guy's have said is true, and good info, I will say this, if sombody comes out with a 40 size mota that is faster, I'll bet it won't be the only one at the next race !!!!

CAUSE IT'S RACING BOYS >>>>>>MARCH THE 12th
Come on spring time I'm ready
Dp2

Tbatt

My Feedback: (4)

I'm glad to hear that we have a good second choice engine in the GMS. I have never owned one but I have had good luck with some of the other low cost engines. Heck I even had a couple of Fox 40 engines that ran great. Keeping the muffler on was a completely different matter though. The Fox 40 Deluxe (ABC) version was way better than the iron piston version.

Does anyone have any RPM numbers on the GMS with a APC 9x6 as a baseline?

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

Ive never had a GMS engine but wasnt there an issue with the carb on one of these? I cant recall which size it was that had some intermident problems, maybe it was the 47 size? Air leaks or problems with how the low speed circuit was machined is what I recall it was, but Ive slept since I least heard of that a year or three ago, so who knows now .
Shoot, Im just happy to be at a race participating and hanging out with all the good folks in Club 40 , regardless of what engine we have !

Anyone know the price range on what the GMS 40 engine's are costing now?

For anyone interested, here is a link to the GMS engines: http://www.bestrc.com/gms/

Oldbob

I have raced both the TT PRO 40 and the GMS 40 and have won with both engines. No matter what engine I have used I find that they all get faster the longer I run then. My fastest engine was a TT, so not wanting to wear it out I would practice with one of my GMS’s, which was about 400 to 500 RPM down from by best TT. After many, many, many laps of practice, that GMS how runs at the same RPM as the Hot TT. And I believe it will get faster the more I run it.

If you use the GMS just run it a little richer than you would the TT. Now there is the best racing secret I can give. No, not running rich, but many, many, many laps of practice.

I love Club 40
Bob

still4given

I agree on the GMS. They come with a less restrictive muffler. A lot of folks have bought the GMS/Tower mufflers as a speed upgrade for their other brand engines. Not legal for Club 40 of course.

The only problem with the GMS 40 is finding them in stock.

Blessings, Terry

ron ward

hi fella's,
i don't race planes, in fact, i'm a old fart just getting back into rc after being absent for 40 yrs!. that said i do have a allot of experience in "class", or "one-design"racing go-karts. my son and i raced the WKA "wazzoom" class karts for several years and was fairly successful in his last two years with 23-1st or 2cd trophies and 3 yrs successive champions at our track. Wazzoom is a class that spec'd only one specific engine that was sealed and un-modifiable.it was a blast to race and relatively inexpensive to be very competative. they were plentyfast .....speeds in the 70 mph. range all the time, and when your butt is only an inch off the ground, that speed is plenty exciting on short tracks!.
i really do like the pylonracers and this summer when i do join the local club i intend to look into getting a sport racing classstarted, if there's enoughintrest.
in reading this and other threads about engine types in the class,a question has cometo mind.....
why is it, there isn't just one engine specified in order to keep the cost down and the competition even and freindly!?....it worked great in karting and really put the proofin the driver/mechanic ability aspect. a 40 or46 size engine like a Magnum 46 xlsorsimilar would provide plenty of go and they don't cost much at all. the main point is to spec just one particularpower plant, basic size and configurationof airplane and let the pilot skills and building skills shine. i my mind,who cares what the national organizations are doing, let's just have some fun, fair, not-money-orientated satuday racing ata local level.
it is what i'm going to suggest to the club and see if there's any intrest.
comments?.......thanks
ron.

GREG DOE

Ron,
It's already happening. Look around and you will see most groups running 424 Quickie specify
one engine: TT Pro 40. Most all groups that are running Club 40 (Advance) specify the same TT Pro 40.
Engines are supposed to be stock, and some circuits have engine inspection, and/or a claiming rule.
Stock engines, and one design events have been around for 40+ years. They have been created to
attract people who are interested in low cost entry level racing. In the past some of the entry level
events were allowed to esclate. Sometimes lessons were learned that have been applied to the new
"class events" to keep them from esclating. And sometimes equipment supliers change the "land scape"
For example Thunder Tigre has made a few changes to their Pro 40. Most of the changes simply improved
the reliability. Did any of the changes improve the performance? Possibly! The next example is the
most popular Club 40 airplane. The World Models Sky Raider Mk.II has had one modification to improve
performance. The "pinched nose" was introduced a couple of years ago and was obviously done to clean
up the nose of the airplane, and make it more streamlined. Since we are at the mercy of the manufacturers
who make our engines and airplanes sometimes we have to accept the "new improved" versions. Other
things that influence our rules are the cost of racing. Case in point: the importing of Thunder Tigre engines
recently changed hands, and the new importer raised the price of the Pro 40. When that happened
modelers started looking around for a cheaper engine.
So check around your area for race activity, and go to some of the races, and talk to the contestants
and find out if this isn't exactly what you are proposing? Good luck, Greg

Ken Erickson

Darn, just wrote 30 minutes of great advice and then dumb pinkied the "Esc" key.

Keep your pinkies out of the props and you will not have that problem and have more money in your checking account.

Re-read Greg's last paragraph.

Go to www.rcpro.org and read the "Procedures" and the "Addendum". They can apply to any type or class of R/C air racing you might want to do. Then read the "Rules" for info on Club 40 and Club 40 Sport.

Later,

Ken

GREG DOE

Ken, I hate it when I do that. Either the finger in the prop, or the premature Esc Key. Greg

ron ward

greg,
niether the local club in my town or the club from a town about 20 miles away has any sort of pylon activity at all, right now. i don't know if there's even any intrest locally, so it will be start from scratch. i realize it's going on all over, just not in my immediate area, that's what i hope to stir up! presently, i only know a few guys from the two clubs and haven't really mentioned it to them because i'm not really a member ofeither clubyet... that will change shortly though, as my plane is close to being air-worthy, and i'm getting antsy to get some stick time on a trainer to make up for my 40 year "vacation"!.
i personally would like to see a class of more-or-less "sport scale type planes, 40 or 50sized, that look closer tothe real thing, instead of the typical box fusedpylon plane everyone races,.... but i do understand thier utility....something maybe with a constant chord wing with squared up tips....easy to build....and a scale-like fuse withcheek cowls to suggestF-1 looks.it wouldn't bother me to put alittle time intoa shoestring or rivetsand crunch it,....with foam and f-glass, you can build a decent looking fuse pretty quick andeasy. ilike to build,but i think i might be standing alone on that idea, so i'll have to see what other guys have to say. my idea would be bone-stock-out-of-the-box engine and a spec'd "mix around" fuel to keep everyone honest. "racing just for the fun of racing".
i have the capability todraw upa couple differentspec fuses to be given out for building the planes,and/or maybe set a weight limit and see what shows up. i would think stating a minimum weight and spec'ing one engine and fuelwould keep things at least relatively civil. with one engine, one fuel and a minimum weight, props and airfoils, i think, would eventually sort themselves out and we'd have some good racing with building talent, a little readingand flying skillsdoing the winning.with the size of bird involved, there's not a whole lot ofdifference in cost between a composite structure and a balsa built-up structure so money wouldn''t buy too much speed and theweightspec.wouldknock the edge off of high-dollar,exotic constructionmethods.

BarryReade

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Ron, Ken, and Greg;

I came back to RC four years ago after a 30 yrs sabbatical and within 6 months was back to racing.  The plane you are looking for is here.  The World Models T-34 Mentor    Price is $140 list and it has been raced quite a bit around the country.  You will find that scratch building for most is a thing of the past and that ARF/ARC planes are the way to go.  Kits cost almost twice as much, if not more to build, as the ARF's.  I think you could also consider an electric powered plane.  One we talked about at RCPRO was the World Models Wing Makers Series Wingman II.  It is $100 dollars and the power plant is another $80.  Then an ESC and Battery and you are ready to race.  Of course the EP foam planes are really coming into their own and the smaller ones can be flown on a smaller course like the 300 ft two pole or smaller.  The really nice thing about the RCPRO Club 40 is it is a standardized class all over the country.  You can race in California and then go to Texas, Alabama, Tennessee, or Florida and be able to compete without having to have a different set up.  The price of the LA Racer is only $10 more than the Sky Raider Mark II (SRMII) and is a much sleeker looking design that has the same dimensions as the SRMII.  It is an approved airframe for Club 40.  I have noticed that more of the guys are using this airframe because it isn't as boxie as the SRMII. 

As for the TT PRO 40 engine, It isn't the most inexpensive motor out there but, it is a good quality motor that has a very long life for a moderate price.  I know when I came back into RC my mind was still at the 30 yr ago prices and some thing are now more inexpensive with great quality and other items seem very expensive compared to years ago.

I hope you find some interest in your area and that you become the go to guy for Club racing.  If you check out the RCPRO web site you will find all kinds of help from plans to build a good set of Pylons to how to run a race.

ron ward

barry, ken and greg,

thanks for the info, that's the stuff i need to find out about . i'm just in the learning stages of this racing thing. to be honest, i didn't even know rc pylon racing was an organized thing untili started lurking on hereseveral weeks ago, looking for info to get back into flying. i too was still in the 30-4- yrs. ago state of mind untillthen. i'm amazed how prices have come down on radios. IIRC, i paid 125 bucks for my used 4 ch. orbit when i was about 14 yrs.old....man, i worked my butt off for that money, back then. it had only 3 servos,but my buddies dad was aTV repairman and i boughta heatkit servo that heput together,,,,i think ipaid25 bucks for that servo kit, back then.
i take a look at that Mentor RTF. i do know that there's a healthy number of builders inboth ofthe clubs andthe clubs are both oriented around promoting building andfuel planes as much as possible, yet.

BarryReade

My Feedback: (1)

<<i do know that there's a healthy number of builders in both of the clubs and the clubs are both oriented around promoting building and fuel planes as much as possible, yet.>>

Wow, that is great and kinda unusual in this day and age.  Sounds like a winner