fcomer84

Squidman, you and I are on the same page.
Hairy46, I race to win. Otherwise, why drive 150 miles to a race? I enjoy playing within the rules to find an edge. I want to win fair and square, too. I do enjoy all the people that do this!

dnrocc

My Feedback: (3)

I believe we need to do everything possible we can in the pre race tech inspection without disassembling engines. I would hate nothing more than to travel 150 miles to a race and have my engine torn apart prior to the race and have something happen like breaking or stripping a head bolt putting it back together. I believe anyone that may have been running illegal parts in the past has now got the message and will either not show up at our races because they can't win with stock parts or show up with legal parts knowing they can't get away with it any longer. I do fully support tear down after the race to check things such as port modifications on the sleeve and full stroke and bore size. I believe the go no go gauge through the glow plug hole and possibly carb inlet size is about all we can do pre-race withoug tearing down engines. Not sure how others feel, but I am just reluctant to have all participants engines disassembled prior to the race. Not fair to them in my opinion at the risk of damaging something.

Don

skull1971

I have already have what I need and can check stroke with only removing the glow plug.

wahoo

My Feedback: (59)

Simple solution: CLUB 46 Racing

Oldbob

Eric, that is fine for TT engines but what about GMS? Both the 40 and 46 GMS have the same stroke. I have three GMS 40 engines but no 46’s. Does anyone know for sure if GMS parts are interchangeable?

Bob

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

I have three GMS 47's and can not find parts for them anymore, They are fast for a 47 just parts are impossible to get! Not sure what interchanges with them?

still4given

I'm not totally certain that you have to use the TT 46 crank with the piston and cylinder. I'll try to get time to try that.

Tx_RcFlyer

My Feedback: (7)

I'm in complete agreement with Don. Personally, I'm not even considering traveling to an out of town event at this point until some sort of Mandatory PRE Race Inspection is mandated.

If someone can provide the dimensions of the gap between the cylinder and head for a TT 46, I'll be happy to thow some aluminum on the mill and lathe to makesome TT 40 Go\No-Go gaugesforthe carb bore andhead to cylinder gapforthe Alvin group.

Tx_RcFlyer

My Feedback: (7)

Eric, did you make an adapter for a dial indicator?

fcomer84

The TT parts list shows different #'s for the crankshaft. The rod for the .40 & .46 is the same #.
It looks like a crank, cyl. & piston, wrist pin, head and head gasket is all you would need to convert a .40 to a .46.
Or, buy a Pro .46 and a ANO343 crankcase and your in business. Or, buy someones worn out Pro .40 for $10 and put the Pro.46 parts in it. All stamped and "legal"!

skull1971

No Ted, but I was close enough without anything to hold the dial.

skull1971

Bob the GMS engines are no longer produced, from what I was told by the Olivers (Richard via Jason), and I see there are not on Tower. So this brings up the question of, is a GMS still legal? You can't buy one.

dasintex

My Feedback: (10)

Take a vote, change the rules, make it 'Club 46', no problem, go one further, only use TTpro 46 engines, why not, same plane same engine, same prop while were at it, no cheating only tweaking from that point on; it's got my vote, we already know how these Skyraiders run with 46 size engines, apparently they have been running them at our races for the past 2 years or more, thanks to the cheaters.

Worth consideration don't you think; from what I have read, other areas in the country have their own version of Club Racing, and they use 46 size engines; why let the cheaters continue to win, we can use the same engines as them and even the playing field out!

Oldbob

Eric once legal always legal

Bob

skull1971

Thanks Doug, that's good idea, but I'll stay with my 40's I beat them once, and can run up front at most races. As most everyone knows I enjoy visiting and trash talk the most anyway. Plus right now I don't have the $$ to re-power.

JohnMcGowan

My Feedback: (15)

I'VE GOT IT!!!!!!!!! See what yall think about this???
( and Im in TOTAL AGREEMENT with Eric- lets use what we already have and stay with the 40 size engines, no need for most of us to have to go out and have to purchase another engine)
**** See what you think please?******
I just came up from the basement where I measured (3) different Pro 40 engines and (1) Pro 46.
The Pro 40 distance between the head and the first cooling fin measured .058 on one engine, .062 on another and .054 on a BRAND NEW IN THE BOX engine. The distance on the same measurement on a Pro 46 measures .084... (all in thousands of an inch)
I measured a penny, a nickel and a quarter for comparison. The penny measures .058 , the nickel measures .073 and quarter measures .063 .
A penny will snugly fit the Pro 40....... a nickel WILL NOT , BUT,.....the nickel WILL fit the Pro 46.
>>>> Here is THE test, if the nickel test fits anyones Pro 40, it most likely has been tampered with and should not be allowed to run.

fcomer84

With a little tinkering I think I can beat that test.
Pull the heads on the top 4 planes after the contest and go-no go the bore and check carburetor diameter. If a cheater is found, he goes home in shame. In order to return, he must pay $100 entry fee to the next race AND must be torn down before and after the next 2 races regardless of finish.

gunfighter

My Feedback: (1)

Would y'all mind a suggestion from an old "Has Been" in this class?

Bob, you were around near the beginning in San Antonio and should remember how we dealt with this at that time...simply re-institute the "Engine Claiming Rule"!

Establish an average retail price for a new engine and implement the rule. Any engine may be claimed by any contestant for this price after a race. This rule put an end to the threat of cheating immediately because who would put the extra money into an engine if he could loose it after only 1 race??

IIRC...I was the only one that actually claimed an engine under this rule in our area, but we never had a problem with modified engines!!

All in all though, it never really mattered. The best pilots would win no matter what they were running!

I may try to check in a little more often to see how y'all are doing!

Chuck Waller

fcomer84

I don't want to buy an illegal engine. I have seen it happen in auto racing with claimer rules.

hairy46

My Feedback: (1)

I would not have any problem with racing with you! getting beat from someone that is better then you is diffrent from getting beat from someone cheating! I am not against winning its just not as important to me as it is to others. I do this as R & R! I do play darts and win allot and use the winnings to buy planes and RC related stuff. One hobby supporting another. Darts has always been easy to me though, really have not had to try that hard to win. I am better at darts but like the RC planes more and am happy I have a way to get them. If I did not have this airplane addiction I would probly stop playing darts. Gets kind of burnt out playing from early mornings to late late nights!

telejojo

I don't care what kind of racing it is someone is always going to be cheating or looking for an edge.

Oldbob

Telejojo; I disagree. cheaters do not Always cheat, but will if they think they can get away with it. Now that we are dealing with this and coming up with ways to detect rule violations, only the dumb ones will still try to get away with it.

Hairy46; thanks for the analogy, planes and Darts; and practice, practice and more practice.

Gunfighter, I disagree, when C40 first started all engines were pretty new and equal. But now we are three years into C40 and all my surviving engines are stronger than they were three years ago, the more I run them the stronger they get. I don’t want someone to grab my well broken-in engine out from under me.

mike31

My Feedback: (67)

Ok, let me ask this please,.. should a pilot show up at one of your races in Texas
( or anywhere for that matter) and lets say he's ran in 2 or 3 of the heat races for that day already, then its discovered that he is running the 46 cyl and piston in the 40 size case. What is the next step for the race as well as this "wonderful" person who is found out not to be legal?
Comments on my comments are welcome.
Thanks,
John
Coment on your coment... Race goes on with a possible next guy in line who almost qualified to start from the scratch position gets to race. DQ sounds reasonable and maybe a 3 race suspension. That kind of stuff happens all over the place. May also prominately post pictures of this person with the caption below the picture " Do you know this cheater"? Explain in fine print too. Might as well stop the problem before it gets way out of hand. Life is tough, It's even tougher if you're stupid. I think John Wayne said that. At least I saw it on a poster with the Duke and obama together.

dasintex

My Feedback: (10)

Nice to hear from Chuck Waller aka 'Gunfighter'; I have to agree with Bob on your proposal of the buy the Engine rule, If I have a legal engine, nicely broken in and running strong, I would hate to let it go.

I'll tell you, this revelation of 46 size TT in 40 size TT engines has opened up a huge mess. What started out as a Fun Class, Entrance Level, Few Rules Pylon Racing Event, has been ruined, by who knows how many cheaters.

And now we scramble to find a solution, proposals to expand the Tech Inspections only further incumbers Club 40; how many times have we had to start our races late, now the expanded Tech inspection although now obviously needed, will only compound to late starts, less rounds being flown, like I said, what a mess, and more like what a shame, and to think the lengths some have gone to cheat to win some drink coasters or cheap trophies, I hope your proud of your endeavors.

Anyways, I hope we can salvage Club 40 and get it back to the Fun Entrance Level Class that it was intended to be.

Jezmo

Folks, I've raced with Eric (aka skull1971) from Barnstormers in New Waverly and true to his word he loves this stuff. Eric, I wish you the best but trust me, pulling the engines completely apart and checking every dimension including but not limited to, gas flow paths for size and modification, port size and timing, stroke length, bore size, carb bore size, and combustion chamber shape and size (volume in cc's) is the only way to insure that someone doesn't have an unfair advantage. I raced automobiles for over 35 years at the professional level and was a tech inspector for a period of time at several tracks (yes I caught a number of cheaters). At the last club 40 event I participated in I walked over and checked the rpm's of a fellow competitor's engine "unnoticed" with my tach. It was a TT Pro 40 and it was turning just a tad over 18,000. Now funny thing, but all of the box stock Pro 40's I've checked will turn an APC 9X6 around 16,400 to 16,500. I assure you the fellow competitor wasn't running an 8" prop so where did all of the rpm's come from. It wasn't, as he said, ceramic bearings, a trick O'Donnell glow plug nor anything else simple and easily applied. That kind of rpm's takes know how and much effort. It was also the last race I ran because I had gotten into club 40 to have fun without having to spend large amounts of cash and time to compete at the top levels. Not a single engine was checked at any event I attended over the course of two years nor were any of the planes checked for even so much as minimum weight. The fuel was provided but I could easily have had my tank partially filled with say 40% and then finished filled with the 15% that was provided by the event leaving me with a higher nitro content than the rest of the field and a very clear advantage. The bottom line is, if you want to hold a fair race then some serious tech inspection is a must.

Just my two cents.