Register

If this is your first visit, please click the Sign Up now button to begin the process of creating your account so you can begin posting on our forums! The Sign Up process will only take up about a minute of two of your time.

Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 203

  1. #101
    skull1971's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Willis, TX
    Posts
    1,559
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    Sorry to hear about that Chris, I'd be finding some tail feathers at Tower to chew on!! Seems we didn't have this problem till Tower bought all the rights to the TT line a couple years ago. Look what they did to Goldberg and Lainer.

    For the record, with your honest and heartfelt confession above, I'd welcome you to race in Texas with us anytime!!!!
    ERIC DESARDI, Revver Bro. 159, NMPRA 59i, III%
    Moe's Cycle Service, New Creations-RC

  2. #102

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spring Hill, FL
    Posts
    247
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?


    ORIGINAL: ACKopter

    Another unsuspecting victim here and I can tell you this, it is painful in more ways than one. My engine was purchased from Tower Hobbies late last year and placed in a brand new airframe for the upcoming 2012 season. At the 9th round (of 10) yesterday waiting for the morning fog to break there was discussion on the possibility of a .46 in the .40 case straight from the factory and as you guessed it, my engine has the larger head to cylinder gap. We could not confirm at the field whether or not it was indeed a .46 but I withdrew myself from the days event anyway. This morning I was able to measure the engine and it does have both the bore and stroke dimensions of the .46
    This creates a few serious issues for me. First off, I have competed all year with this plane and with 2 rounds left in the season I hold second in overall points. Yesterday's withdrawl from competition will probably put me farther down the list but as it stands now ALL my points will most likely be removed (and in all fairness should) as I have competed with a illegal engine for the entire season. Secondly and by far the most serious, my character has been called into question. This is something I hold very dear to myself and pride myself on is my values. For some that do not know me well enough I'm sure I will be labeled a "cheater".
    It had been mentioned earlier in this thread that it is the responsibility of the competitor to verify that the engine they use is correct and legal. To this I say B.S.!!!!!! If I cannot have faith in a OEM supplied engine from a reputable dealer then why even bother, had I been aware the possibility of this scenario then indeed I would have checked my engine (as many of you did) but that was not the case. I know you can swap components but did not know these were being passed on from the factory untill yesterday.
    I will make the appropriate contacts this coming week if only to bring more awareness to the manufacturer as I'm not very concerned with a replacement at this time.

    Thanks for hearing me out.
    Chris Kortessis #82, Fl Club40 Pylon
    I have to chime in here.

    First and foremost since it was me who pointed out that an engine on a plane that he and I were standing next to was likely a .46 (I had no idea it was evenchris's plane at first, I thought it was just a random plane on a table where we stopped to talk) and when we checked the head gap and it was indeed a .46, the look on Chris's face told a story or moral value that all of us should be so lucky to be around. Chris looked sick, he looked like he saw a ghost. Never once did I think he intentionally used the .46. His facial expression was very clear that he was not "in" on it.

    Chris, as I told you onSaturday I do not think for 1 second your character is being questioned here. That I promise you.

    And secondly, what Chris did by putting his plane away and withdrawing from the race was a class act thing to do. I told him numerous times I felt it was unneccesary, but what he did was absolutely the most honest thing anyone could do. Chris, I wore you out telling you this oinSaturday, but you are a stand up guy in my book.

    If you need an engine for next weeks race (I cannot make the last race due to a scheduling conflict) I will pull my .TT 40 out and ship it to you if you'd like to use it. Race it and I'll pay postage to ship it back when you are done with it.

    You are a stand up guy Chris and I am so sorry I pointed out that engine to you. I feel horrible, I truly do. But acting the way you did about it was an outstanding gesture of what a honest guy you are. And sticking aorund to help score & judge after that was an act of sportmanship that I haven't seen in a long, long, long time.

    If you want to use one of my TT.40s, PMme or call me, I'll ship it overnight tomorrow for you.

    John Dasch
    HAM RC Club
    #92 Fl Club40 Pylon


  3. #103

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Branford, FL
    Posts
    29
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    Oh my, thank you all for your responses and especially you John, your comments here mean a great deal to me and thankyou also for the very generous offer on the engine, I have sent you a PM regarding this.

    As a quick follow up. I researched my purchase history @ Tower and the engine was purchased Dec 5 of 2011, not sure what will be said of my situation given the period of time it took to notice the issue but I will post updated information here as it becomes available.

    Thank you all,
    Chris

  4. #104

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Aurora, CO
    Posts
    1,172
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    So Chris,

    Was your motor faster than the other racers, to the point where your were winning heats that you shouldn't have?

    Kurt

  5. #105

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Branford, FL
    Posts
    29
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    Bozarth,
    Good question. The answer is both yes and no. My plane is faster than most of the others but I believe in fairness so is my ST.40 powered back-up plane. On the other hand, the TT.40/46 is competitive with the fastest 4 or so planes at any given event but in no way clearly faster.

    I will say that when I first put the plane together and did my break-in testing flights I was very pleased with its performance and felt I would have an edge against the competition. At the first round I did very well and would say I was evenly matched with the fastest planes there for the day. It seemed everyone else had found more speed in the off season as well. As the season wore on there were times that I felt I was at a noticable dissadvantage, I would have to attribute this to my newness to pylon racing and the RC hobby in general. All in all I would say that I never felt I had an advantage that would make me suspect an abnormally fast engine but did feel I got a "good one" straight from the factory.

  6. #106

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Branford, FL
    Posts
    29
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    I sent a note about the situation to Hobbico yesterday morning. They want to have a look at the engine but made no mention of awareness of a possible production issue on their part. I'll get the engine sent off today and then wait it out to see how they respond.

  7. #107

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Branford, FL
    Posts
    29
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    I had a phone conversation with Hobbico's tech support this morning and it revealed some interesting information. By reading the thread here one would assume the 40/46 mismatch to be a somewhat common event. According to the tech rep I spoke with this is not the case at all. He had only heard of one such other complaint (several months ago) and that person was not cooperative in returning the engine for inspection and thus Hobbico had not really seen any of these engines. I'm not sure if this was only the rep I spoke to personal experience or that of Hobbico as a whole, regardless, this situation is not likely as widespread as I originally thought.
    I will update here regardless as new information is presented to me.

  8. #108

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    farmington, CT
    Posts
    603
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    We have had at least one .46 in a .40 case up here in NEPRO that came directly from Great Planes

    Here is an excerpt from the August NMPRA newsletter.......Hobbico should know about this by now:

    Another topic we discussed also
    has to do with 424 class engines. It
    appears that there have been a few
    Thunder Tiger .40 engines bought
    for use in 424 class and Club 40
    class racing that have been found
    to actually be .46 displacement
    engines. Apparently, the engine
    case has β€œ40” under the exhaust,
    and the box said that the engines
    were .40’s, but they apparently
    had cranks, cylinders, pistons and
    heads from .46 Thunder Tiger
    engines installed. It is not known
    how many engines have been found
    in this configuration, but it we have
    heard about a β€œfew” so far.
    I have been in touch with some
    contacts I have at Hobbico, the
    current importer of Thunder
    Tiger engines and other products.
    Several engines from their
    inventory of Thunder Tiger 0.40’s
    were inspected and found to be
    the correct .40 cu.in. displacement.
    The difference between a Thunder
    Tiger .40 and .46 is approximately
    1mm of stroke and approximately
    0.9mm of bore, both larger in the
    .46. The stroke of the .40 is 19mm
    and the stroke of the .46 is 20mm.
    It is not known at this point how
    the apparent mix-up happened
    or how many engines may have
    been shipped in the incorrect
    configuration. If racers believe
    they have or are unsure if they
    have received a Thunder Tiger
    PRO .40 that actually has .46
    internal parts, please contact
    HOBBICO TECHNICAL SUPPORT
    at: productsupport@hobbico.com
    or phone 217-398-8970.
    It is fairly easy to measure the
    engines with a depth micrometer
    and/or a dial caliper. If you do not
    feel that you have the capability or
    equipment to inspect your engine,
    contact the racers in your area
    to obtain some help measuring
    the bore and stroke of your
    engine. If you don’t have access
    to anyone who can help you with
    the inspection, contact HOBBICO
    TECHNICAL SUPPORT at the email or phone number above for
    assistance.
    Now, with this knowledge, it is the
    responsibility of all racers to ensure
    that the engine(s) they have is
    (are) the correct displacement.
    Just because it appears that
    a few engines may have been
    shipped from the factory in this
    configuration, it does NOT mean
    it is legal to compete in AMA 424
    racing with an engine that displaces
    .46 cu.in. If you are caught with
    one of these engines during an
    inspection at a contest, you will be
    disqualified, whether you knew it
    was a .46 or not. It is the pilot’s
    responsibility to get the engines
    inspected BEFORE the start of
    competition.
    We also need all Contest Directors
    where Thunder Tiger .40 engines
    are being used to plan to do
    inspections at their contests for
    the foreseeable future. Please
    be prepared to inspect at least
    the engines from the planes of
    the trophy positions and fast time
    and also be prepared to inspect
    engines for racers who cannot
    measure their engine themselves.
    This action should also be planned
    by the Club 40 folks at their races
    as well.
    It is regretful that we appear to
    have this complication for the 424
    and Club 40 racers, but it does
    not appear to be widespread like
    a full shipment of engines from
    the manufacturer, based on the
    quantity we are aware of and the
    fact that the engines inspected
    from Hobbico’s inventory were
    found to be correct. We just have
    to deal with it going forward.
    AMA class 424 racing (and other
    classes as well) have benefited
    from the high quality, consistency,
    and relatively low price of the
    Thunder Tiger .40 engines for
    many years, back to at least the
    mid-1990’s. We do need to thank
    them for continuing to make a good
    product that we can utilize in 424
    level racing




  9. #109

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Branford, FL
    Posts
    29
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    And I would think Hobbico should be aware of this by now and was a little surprised to find the tech I was dealing with knew little of the problem. As I said above, I'm unsure if the tech was speaking on his own behalf or that of Hobbico in regards to the amount of incorrect engines that have been discovered. It would seem however this discrepancy is far and few in between, thank goodness.

    This does not really pertain to the engine issue but I received word yesterday that the race committee has reviewed my situation and will allow my year to date points to remain intact. On one hand I'm pleased with the decision but feel on the other hand that I did not earn the points fair and square. One more race left and I only hope to do well with my ST.40 powered back-up plane, at least that way it will show I'm capable of a good finish without an unfair advantage.

  10. #110

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Amarillo, TX
    Posts
    61
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    I promise there is no advantage to having a .46 over a .40.  At our last race we had 12 planes 11 had .46's and 1 had a .40. The .40 won every time against the .46, even when the .46 had at least a extra 500-800 rpm on the same prop. There was no obvious advantage in speed or performance. So whether you had a .40 or a .46 I would say you EARNED the points flying a tighter course.

  11. #111

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spring Hill, FL
    Posts
    247
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?


    ORIGINAL: skooterII

    I promise there is no advantage to having a .46 over a .40.
    I completely disagree. I flew against an illegal .46 with my perfectly legal .40 in testing, on purpose. Not only is the performance difference noticable on the stop watch, it was CLEARLY noticable from average spectators / onlookers. The Tachometer also substantiates this. When you fly two similar skilled pilots on .40s, it's a race of skill and ability. Put a .46 in there and you can make mistakes, pull the corners super tight and the .46 keeps the rpm right up there and hardly pulls down. Wrap the .40 powered plane around the pylon and the rpm drop does not require a tuned ear to hear and the fact the airplane looks as if someone put the spoilers out is pretty evident.

    And Chris, Hobbico is merely covering their collective butts by saying they haven't heard of this problem. Imagine if they said, "Oh yeah, there are many of them out there like that". The returns would be a huge problem. They are in disaster control mode. They know, believe me... they know. This isn't isolated to us in FL. The problem is on a larger scale, but you have to remember, a guy has to know what he is looking at. Many folks cannot tell the physical difference between them as some of us can from 15 feet away.




  12. #112

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Aurora, CO
    Posts
    1,172
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    ORIGINAL: Giant_Scale_Gasser

    ... Many folks cannot tell the physical difference between them as some of us can from 15 feet away.

    For those of us not in the know, what should we look for from 15 feet away?

    Kurt

  13. #113

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    , TN
    Posts
    254
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    Here are some of the facts we know: The engine box says they are "ABC" but we know they are "ABN".
    The engines were origionally manufactured in Taiwan, but are now made in China. That Hobbico bought Thunder Tiger. Does anyone know if production moved from Taiwan to China, as a result of the purchase of Thunder Tiger by Hobbico?
    It was posted earlier in this thread that we saw two hybrid engines at the Hico, TX race this summer.If memory serves me correctly, I believe a third engine was reported in Texas. Now one has surfaced in Florida, and some have shown up at AMA 424 races. So maybe we have 6 or so confirmed sightings.
    It was also posted that there is a larger gap between the crankcase, and the head on the .46's. The common
    inspection is the nickel test. A nickel will not go in the gap between the case and the head of a .40, but will go in the gap of a .46. Another check is to remove the muffler, and look in the exhaust. The .46 cylinders are thinner than the .40 cylinders, and the difference is easy to see if you compare a .46 to a .40 side by side.
    Here is the best explanation for what happened. A production run of say 500 engines was planned. Before the run was completed they ran out of some parts, probably pistons and liners. Someone decided to finish out the "order" with .46 parts, thinking that no one would care! That may be the Chinese mentality, that it was more important to complete the order, that to comply with ISO 9001 protocol. If you can't get any satisfaction from Hobbico, ask them if they would like you to take your complaint to ISO? good luck Greg

  14. #114

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Branford, FL
    Posts
    29
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    The larger case/head gap clearance is what gave my plane away. Once you see it you will actually be able to easily spot one even from quite a distance.
    I still have the original box in which my engine came in. It does not designate either ABN or ABC type construction, it does however say "Made in China". It also has "ISO 90001 CERTIFICATED" printed on the box with a nifty little sticker under the ISO rating that reads"THE ONLY ENGINE ALLOWED IN THE CLUB40 RACING" in bold print. I really got a kick out of the sticker given the circumstances.

  15. #115

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    , TN
    Posts
    254
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    I may have mis-spoken in my previous post. I don't know that Hobbico bought Thunder Tiger. It may be that
    they are just the sole US importer. Greg

  16. #116

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spring Hill, FL
    Posts
    247
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?


    ORIGINAL: Bozarth

    ORIGINAL: Giant_Scale_Gasser

    ... Many folks cannot tell the physical difference between them as some of us can from 15 feet away.

    For those of us not in the know, what should we look for from 15 feet away?

    Kurt
    The difference is between the head & top fin of the engine block. If you can fit a quarter between the head & block, it's a .46. I have included photos to show the difference. In person the gap is painfully obvious.



    This is the .40. Notice the fins are even all the way up.


    This is the .46. Look at the head to block gap. Very, very easy to spot.

  17. #117
    Ken Erickson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Columbus, IN
    Posts
    616
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    Back when we were sending e-mails to Mr. Lin, I did explain that Club 40 National Rules have always allowed other engines and that it was the AMA 424 Class National Rules which stipulated that the TT .40 Pro was the only engine allowed. Never did get a response to that one.

    I also pointed out that the TT 40 Pro was acknowledged by, almost, all to be the hottest sport 40 engine. They prettty much have this class to themselves.If they discontinue this engine, they will be in competition with all the other .46es.

    My supposition would be the same as Greg Doe's, that this happened at the end of a run and they thought no one would care. At least they know better now.

    Let's hope they continue to make this engine.

    Ken

  18. #118

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Aurora, CO
    Posts
    1,172
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    Thanks for the photos.

    Kurt

  19. #119
    cjbotox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ocklawaha, FL
    Posts
    73
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    I'm just getting started in club 40 and found this thread. Was deliberating on STor TT engines. After reading through entire post, I was wondering...
    Wouldn't a .46 consume a higher rate/ volume of fuel? If so then couldn't we go back to using fuel bulbs or something to contain a premeasured amount? I had an old K&B 40 I gave away because I couldn't find a muffler for it. Would it have been legal if I did?

    John
    Highest award winnings for low perverted passes

  20. #120
    Ken Erickson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Columbus, IN
    Posts
    616
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    John,

    As your address shows that you live in Florida, I suggest you follow this link: http://floridaclub40pylonracing.com. Then you will have a good idea of whether your engine would be allowed. You still might contact the person(s) listed as the Director of the race(s) and ask if they would let you run it. My guess would be, "Unlikely".

    As for the National Rules, we would need a lot more info about your engine. We do specify that an engine have an original, factory-supplied sport muffler.

    Still, the local rules are what anyone needs to follow. Just like the AMA racing rules, not everyone uses the exact National Rules. I am very appreciative of those who do. How else can it be known if the rules are right?

    Ken Erickson
    RCPRO Club 40 Committee Chairman


  21. #121

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Branford, FL
    Posts
    29
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    Hi John,
    I cant say about the use of premeasured amounts of fuel as it would have to be brought before the rules commitee, I can however tell you that your old K&B 40 is NOT allowed for use in Florida club40. Here is a link to the FL club40 rules for your reference,
    http://floridaclub40pylonracing.com/club40rules.htm A quick look around the site should answer most of your questions, if not our final race of the season is this coming Saturday in Dunnellon at Tri-County R/C. Racing usually starts around 9. Please come over and check things out if you have the time. Here is a link to the host club site for information and its not too far from you. http://tricountyrcclub.homestead.com/
    It would be great if you can make it!! Look me up if you do, I'll be flying a yellow #82 plane and my name is Chris.
    Hope to see you there.


  22. #122
    still4given's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Victorville, CA
    Posts
    1,498
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    In So Cal we allow any sport .40 in stock form. I have seen K&B, OS, GMS, Magnum, Fox, Super Tigre, Evolution & Thunder Tiger. The Thunder Tigers seem to have a slight advantage so it has not been an issue at all and it has helped attract a few guys who had a .40 sitting around that they could use to get them started. Most guys, if they stick with it, will eventually upgrade to the TT's or Evolutions.
    Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply.
    Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God

  23. #123

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Aurora, CO
    Posts
    1,172
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?

    You should come join us in Colorado. If we have a new racer show up to race for the first time, we don't care what engine he has. Now if he cleans everybody's clock, next time might be a different story. But I doubt he will in his first race.

    Just like Still4given's comments above.

    Kurt

  24. #124

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Spring Hill, FL
    Posts
    247
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?


    ORIGINAL: Bozarth

    You should come join us in Colorado. If we have a new racer show up to race for the first time, we don't care what engine he has. Now if he cleans everybody's clock, next time might be a different story. But I doubt he will in his first race.

    Just like Still4given's comments above.

    Kurt
    You never know.... I know a guy who won (a heat and the Gold) his first time out.

  25. #125

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Aurora, CO
    Posts
    1,172
    Gallery
    My Gallery
    Models
    My Models
    Ratings
    My Feedback

    RE: Are the new Thunder Tiger 40s actually 46s?


    ORIGINAL: Giant_Scale_Gasser


    ORIGINAL: Bozarth

    You should come join us in Colorado. If we have a new racer show up to race for the first time, we don't care what engine he has. Now if he cleans everybody's clock, next time might be a different story. But I doubt he will in his first race.

    Just like Still4given's comments above.

    Kurt
    You never know....Β* I know a guy who won (a heat and the Gold) his first time out. [img][/img]
    PERFECT way to hook a new racer! Works every time.

    Kurt


Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:46 PM.

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.