Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
03-31-2007, 05:48 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Stan,
There is a little history to support lowering the engine. The MidWest Four Star 40 racing group allows lowering the engine 1/4" for better fuel pickup.
Dub made some TT Pro .40 mounts and they could enhance the engine performance.
BTW, I like your new RCU identifier.
There is a little history to support lowering the engine. The MidWest Four Star 40 racing group allows lowering the engine 1/4" for better fuel pickup.
Dub made some TT Pro .40 mounts and they could enhance the engine performance.
BTW, I like your new RCU identifier.
03-31-2007, 08:53 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
WELL....
if I can't lower my motor a 1\4 " then I'll raise my tank up a 1\4 " maybe even use large fuel tubing, the florescent kind and really go fast.... and I won't tell anyone!!
if I can't lower my motor a 1\4 " then I'll raise my tank up a 1\4 " maybe even use large fuel tubing, the florescent kind and really go fast.... and I won't tell anyone!!
03-31-2007, 11:31 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Don, since you put it that way, it’s like getting three planes for the price of two. This would go along with the low cost concept of Club 40 Racing. Therefore interchangeable wing and fuselage is fine so long as they are parts from the same manufacture, are of the same design and are a direct fit (bolt on) requiring no modifications to make them fit.
Bob
Bob
04-01-2007, 07:10 AM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Bob,
That is exactly the point. The wings are fully interchangable. They have the same airfoil, are the same size, and have the same mounting dimensions. The LA Racer 40 is just a nicer looking Sky Raider Mach II.
In fact, If a guy broke his wing on an SRM2, anyone wiith eiher a SRM2 or an LR40 could loan him a wing. Same thing with an LR40.
The only mounting issue is that a lot of people are replacing the wing bolts with 1/4-20 nylon bolts. So the wing bolt holes may be drilled out. But with washers, even a drilled out wing could be used on a "Stock" plane.
You can take the concept even further. Some people are dumpster diving and saving parts. A whole wing might be put together from two damaged wings. If it is an LA Racer 40 wing, why not let somebody use it on their Sky Raider Mach II? Or if someone with an LA Racer 40 needs a wing, why not let them use the Sky Raider Mach II wing? I personally don't think the internal servo of the SRM2 would give an advantage when used on an LR40 fuselage.
That is exactly the point. The wings are fully interchangable. They have the same airfoil, are the same size, and have the same mounting dimensions. The LA Racer 40 is just a nicer looking Sky Raider Mach II.
In fact, If a guy broke his wing on an SRM2, anyone wiith eiher a SRM2 or an LR40 could loan him a wing. Same thing with an LR40.
The only mounting issue is that a lot of people are replacing the wing bolts with 1/4-20 nylon bolts. So the wing bolt holes may be drilled out. But with washers, even a drilled out wing could be used on a "Stock" plane.
You can take the concept even further. Some people are dumpster diving and saving parts. A whole wing might be put together from two damaged wings. If it is an LA Racer 40 wing, why not let somebody use it on their Sky Raider Mach II? Or if someone with an LA Racer 40 needs a wing, why not let them use the Sky Raider Mach II wing? I personally don't think the internal servo of the SRM2 would give an advantage when used on an LR40 fuselage.
04-01-2007, 06:37 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Alrighty then,
We had an emergency meeting today of the Club 40 board of directors and the AMA representatives. It is now official Club 40 is now an AMA official event # AMA 426.3; Club 40 will follow the following rules:
Airframes:
1) SRM2 or an LR40 only, but any parts may be interchanged as the contestants see fit.
2) No modifications of any sort may be done. This includes recovering or re-heating covering to remove wrinkles.
3) All original supplied parts must be used even if they don’t work.
4) Supplied spinners must be used and must be red,
5) Only white glue may be used to join wing halves and no other reinforcement is allowed.
6) Absolutely no epoxy on any part of the aircraft.
7) Foam safe CA is not allowed on any part. Only Amberoid glue can be used in areas where the Chinese worker made a mistake.
8) The original covering must be not removed. In the case of a repair silk span and clear dope is the only acceptable repair material.
9) Fiber glass not allowed
Engines:
1) Only Engines purchased on EBay are allowed.
2) APC 10x8 propellers are the only approved prop.
3) Balancing is allowed by grinding at the hub with a Dremel tool only; no LiPo Dremel tools are allowed
4) Fuel tanks must be the supplied tank and pass a 40 PSI pressure test at registration.
5) No pressure line from the muffler is allowed.
6) Fueling must be done with a Dave Brown hand crank pump.
5) No starters allowed, all contestants must hand start their engines.
Radios:
1) Only 4 channel radios are allowed and no rate switches.
2) Servos must be bushing type.
3) All radios must be on channel 32.
4) No LiPos allowed.
5) No field recharging of batteries allowed.
Reclaim rule:
1) Any engine may be reclaimed by punching out anyone you can for $10. But if you lose the fist fight its $50.
2) Any airframe may be claimed, including the engine, for $50. Exception, if the airplane is claimed by a spectator it’s $60.
That’s it all the new rules in a nut shell.
Excuse me! What is today’s date?
Well it's 4/1/2007 here.
SD
Also new today free broad band:
[link]http://www.google.com/tisp/index.html[/link]
We had an emergency meeting today of the Club 40 board of directors and the AMA representatives. It is now official Club 40 is now an AMA official event # AMA 426.3; Club 40 will follow the following rules:
Airframes:
1) SRM2 or an LR40 only, but any parts may be interchanged as the contestants see fit.
2) No modifications of any sort may be done. This includes recovering or re-heating covering to remove wrinkles.
3) All original supplied parts must be used even if they don’t work.
4) Supplied spinners must be used and must be red,
5) Only white glue may be used to join wing halves and no other reinforcement is allowed.
6) Absolutely no epoxy on any part of the aircraft.
7) Foam safe CA is not allowed on any part. Only Amberoid glue can be used in areas where the Chinese worker made a mistake.
8) The original covering must be not removed. In the case of a repair silk span and clear dope is the only acceptable repair material.
9) Fiber glass not allowed
Engines:
1) Only Engines purchased on EBay are allowed.
2) APC 10x8 propellers are the only approved prop.
3) Balancing is allowed by grinding at the hub with a Dremel tool only; no LiPo Dremel tools are allowed
4) Fuel tanks must be the supplied tank and pass a 40 PSI pressure test at registration.
5) No pressure line from the muffler is allowed.
6) Fueling must be done with a Dave Brown hand crank pump.
5) No starters allowed, all contestants must hand start their engines.
Radios:
1) Only 4 channel radios are allowed and no rate switches.
2) Servos must be bushing type.
3) All radios must be on channel 32.
4) No LiPos allowed.
5) No field recharging of batteries allowed.
Reclaim rule:
1) Any engine may be reclaimed by punching out anyone you can for $10. But if you lose the fist fight its $50.
2) Any airframe may be claimed, including the engine, for $50. Exception, if the airplane is claimed by a spectator it’s $60.
That’s it all the new rules in a nut shell.
Excuse me! What is today’s date?
Well it's 4/1/2007 here.
SD
Also new today free broad band:
[link]http://www.google.com/tisp/index.html[/link]
04-01-2007, 09:04 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Stan, I like most of your rules, but I suggest a few changes.....
1. The Dave Brown Six Shooter fuel pumps are too high tech...I suggest fuel bulbs only.
2. If a SRM2 wing is to be used on an LR40, or visa versa, it must be mounted upside down, providing anhedral, therefore negating any possible advantage of the wing swap.
3. If a contestant wins a heat, he must fly the next heat with his prop on backwards to give his competitors a better chance in the next round. The winner of the contest must fly the entire next contest with a backwards prop. God forbid you have a repeat winner, as we must remember this is a politically correct world where all competitors get a prize, regardless of skill level, practice, and preparation.
1. The Dave Brown Six Shooter fuel pumps are too high tech...I suggest fuel bulbs only.
2. If a SRM2 wing is to be used on an LR40, or visa versa, it must be mounted upside down, providing anhedral, therefore negating any possible advantage of the wing swap.
3. If a contestant wins a heat, he must fly the next heat with his prop on backwards to give his competitors a better chance in the next round. The winner of the contest must fly the entire next contest with a backwards prop. God forbid you have a repeat winner, as we must remember this is a politically correct world where all competitors get a prize, regardless of skill level, practice, and preparation.
04-02-2007, 08:39 AM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Lee, it's not just racing. The pattern guys get into it, the combat guys do the same. Even the scale guys have similar type discussions. Sport Scale has been a hot topic in the past.
Any form of competition has to have regulations, and they have to be debated to come to terms. It is actually healthy as long as people keep it in perspective.
Club 40 Racing is about FUN. Arguing isn't fun, but things will work out. MANY people are getting hooked on the Sky Raider Mach II and the simple pleasure of low key racing, even if it is just on a virtual course.
Any form of competition has to have regulations, and they have to be debated to come to terms. It is actually healthy as long as people keep it in perspective.
Club 40 Racing is about FUN. Arguing isn't fun, but things will work out. MANY people are getting hooked on the Sky Raider Mach II and the simple pleasure of low key racing, even if it is just on a virtual course.
04-02-2007, 02:03 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Addressing the “cheeks” on the Sky Raider Mach II is required in my opinion.
The Florida group allows using material to tie them together to stop them from vibrating.
Not only do they sometimes flutter at speed in the Advanced/Gold class, but they vibrate harmonically on the ground.
Why is this an issue? At our field weekend before last, a new plane was being run up on the ground. The plane was vibrating. A helpful bystander pointed out that the cheeks were vibrating. Unfortunately he did this by pointing to the cheeks through the propeller arc. His wounds required many stitches and he missed at least a week of work.
Call it a modification if you want. I call it a safety issue and I will fight to allow reinforcing the sides of the engine compartment so that something like this does not happen again.
I personally will not refer to Club 40 Racing as a “Stock” class any longer. Modelers have a hard time tolerating deficiencies and I think that ruling out “common modeling practices” like sealing hinge lines is not in the spirit of keeping Club 40 a FUN racing class. From now on I will refer to it as a “Spec” class. This terminology works in R/C car racing and many other forms of racing.
The Florida group allows using material to tie them together to stop them from vibrating.
Not only do they sometimes flutter at speed in the Advanced/Gold class, but they vibrate harmonically on the ground.
Why is this an issue? At our field weekend before last, a new plane was being run up on the ground. The plane was vibrating. A helpful bystander pointed out that the cheeks were vibrating. Unfortunately he did this by pointing to the cheeks through the propeller arc. His wounds required many stitches and he missed at least a week of work.
Call it a modification if you want. I call it a safety issue and I will fight to allow reinforcing the sides of the engine compartment so that something like this does not happen again.
I personally will not refer to Club 40 Racing as a “Stock” class any longer. Modelers have a hard time tolerating deficiencies and I think that ruling out “common modeling practices” like sealing hinge lines is not in the spirit of keeping Club 40 a FUN racing class. From now on I will refer to it as a “Spec” class. This terminology works in R/C car racing and many other forms of racing.
04-03-2007, 08:29 AM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Greetings;
I've copied and transferred my previous post on the "Club 40 Hangout" forum onto this forum.
"It looks like everyone posting here on this subject is basically in agreement. I think it could be said that most of us want to reduce the possibility of speed creep due to "inch-worming" the rules. The rules need to clearly specify, as an irrevocable principle, that there are to be NO speed enhancing modifications to either the airframe or engine. Again, the basic principle to be adhered to is that there be NO speed enhancing modifications to the airframe or engine. Any durability, or safety enhancing modifications which do not enhance speed should, of course, be allowed. Other allowed mods should include what are called "good building practices"; so long as they don't enhance speed. It is the job of the CD to see that both the letter of the rules and the intent of the rules are being followed. It is also the job of each contestant to see that his airplane follows the intent of the rules.
It's good that we're having this discussion so soon in the life of this event. It shows that everyone is well aware of what can happen and has happened in the past, and that they are wary of it happening to Club 40 racing. I am very encourage by this discussion.
Doug Bebensee"
P.S. I'd like to add that I feel very strongly about the fuel issue. I think it should be pegged at no more than 15% and be supplied by the hosting club. There would be a substantial performance increase and cost penalty to allow high-nitro fuels. For one of our Florida Club 40 races it only costs about $2/person per race for the hosting club to supply the fuel. Our entry fees are $2 (so far).
Also, a little creative outlet can be a good thing, if kept under control. I like what Stan Douglas said about this in his post #25 second paragraph.
Doug Bebensee
I've copied and transferred my previous post on the "Club 40 Hangout" forum onto this forum.
"It looks like everyone posting here on this subject is basically in agreement. I think it could be said that most of us want to reduce the possibility of speed creep due to "inch-worming" the rules. The rules need to clearly specify, as an irrevocable principle, that there are to be NO speed enhancing modifications to either the airframe or engine. Again, the basic principle to be adhered to is that there be NO speed enhancing modifications to the airframe or engine. Any durability, or safety enhancing modifications which do not enhance speed should, of course, be allowed. Other allowed mods should include what are called "good building practices"; so long as they don't enhance speed. It is the job of the CD to see that both the letter of the rules and the intent of the rules are being followed. It is also the job of each contestant to see that his airplane follows the intent of the rules.
It's good that we're having this discussion so soon in the life of this event. It shows that everyone is well aware of what can happen and has happened in the past, and that they are wary of it happening to Club 40 racing. I am very encourage by this discussion.
Doug Bebensee"
P.S. I'd like to add that I feel very strongly about the fuel issue. I think it should be pegged at no more than 15% and be supplied by the hosting club. There would be a substantial performance increase and cost penalty to allow high-nitro fuels. For one of our Florida Club 40 races it only costs about $2/person per race for the hosting club to supply the fuel. Our entry fees are $2 (so far).
Also, a little creative outlet can be a good thing, if kept under control. I like what Stan Douglas said about this in his post #25 second paragraph.
Doug Bebensee
04-03-2007, 10:22 AM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Here is a portion of a document I am working on. Let me know what you think. It is not intended as "Rules", but as a supporting guideline.
The airframes used in Club 40 Racing are to remain essentially stock. The goal is to maintain a level playing field and to have fun. Anyone who has flown R/C for any length of time knows that airplanes get hurt and need repairs. Many modelers learn what areas of a particular model need improvement to hold up to everyday use, or more demanding use in R/C pylon racing. “Common Modeling Practices” will be allowed in the assembly and maintenance of the aircraft. This is not the same as “Common Speed Enhancement Practices” which shall not be allowed. This guide will list the areas that are subject to interpretation and provide guidance for groups and contest directors running Club 40 Races.
The engine shall be mounted upright in the position as provided “out-of-the-box”. Raising or lowering the engine is not allowed. If the front of the aircraft is damaged and needs to be repaired, the builder should attempt to locate the engine in the original position. Shimming the engine mount to change the thrust line is acceptable. The firewalls vary in horizontal and vertical thrust and adjusting the thrust is a common modeling practice. The stock engine mount should be used unless one is not available. Replacement engine mounts should be of the reinforced nylon type. Aluminum engine mounts are not to be used unless a stock or nylon mount is not available. The engine may be moved fore or aft to aid in balancing the aircraft. Engines must be securely attached to the engine mount with four screws.
The supplied plastic spinner may be replaced with a spinner nut or a spinner of not more than 2.5 inches in diameter. Heavy hub spinners are allowed as are spinner weights that fit inside a spinner. It is the modeler’s responsibility to ensure that the spinner assembly is safe. Cracked spinners shall not be used and the spinner must fit the propeller properly.
The sides of the Sky Raider Mach II at the engine compartment sometimes vibrate harmonically or flutter in flight. Two methods of addressing the issue may be used. A piece of wood or tubing may be used to connect the two sides. Doublers of plywood may be used on the inside of the compartment sides. A combination of the methods may be used. No attempt to enclose or streamline the engine is allowed. No rounding of edges or reshaping of the compartment sides is allowed. Repaired noses should be as close as possible to the original shape. Removal of the compartment sides is not allowed. Openings for clearance of mufflers and needle valves are allowed as needed. Any modification deemed to be an attempt to provide for speed enhancement shall not be allowed.
The tank may be replaced with a tank of at least 6 ounces of capacity. Tanks must be positioned in the provided area and may not be moved back to the CG position. Any brand of tank may be used as long as it meets the capacity requirement. The tank may only be pressurized with muffler pressure. A local option is to allow bubbleless tanks that have an internal bladder may be used as long as the bladder does not provide for additional pressure other than muffler pressure. The stock tank may have a bladder added to it as long as it meets the previous requirement of not providing additional pressure.
The engine shall be mounted upright in the position as provided “out-of-the-box”. Raising or lowering the engine is not allowed. If the front of the aircraft is damaged and needs to be repaired, the builder should attempt to locate the engine in the original position. Shimming the engine mount to change the thrust line is acceptable. The firewalls vary in horizontal and vertical thrust and adjusting the thrust is a common modeling practice. The stock engine mount should be used unless one is not available. Replacement engine mounts should be of the reinforced nylon type. Aluminum engine mounts are not to be used unless a stock or nylon mount is not available. The engine may be moved fore or aft to aid in balancing the aircraft. Engines must be securely attached to the engine mount with four screws.
The supplied plastic spinner may be replaced with a spinner nut or a spinner of not more than 2.5 inches in diameter. Heavy hub spinners are allowed as are spinner weights that fit inside a spinner. It is the modeler’s responsibility to ensure that the spinner assembly is safe. Cracked spinners shall not be used and the spinner must fit the propeller properly.
The sides of the Sky Raider Mach II at the engine compartment sometimes vibrate harmonically or flutter in flight. Two methods of addressing the issue may be used. A piece of wood or tubing may be used to connect the two sides. Doublers of plywood may be used on the inside of the compartment sides. A combination of the methods may be used. No attempt to enclose or streamline the engine is allowed. No rounding of edges or reshaping of the compartment sides is allowed. Repaired noses should be as close as possible to the original shape. Removal of the compartment sides is not allowed. Openings for clearance of mufflers and needle valves are allowed as needed. Any modification deemed to be an attempt to provide for speed enhancement shall not be allowed.
The tank may be replaced with a tank of at least 6 ounces of capacity. Tanks must be positioned in the provided area and may not be moved back to the CG position. Any brand of tank may be used as long as it meets the capacity requirement. The tank may only be pressurized with muffler pressure. A local option is to allow bubbleless tanks that have an internal bladder may be used as long as the bladder does not provide for additional pressure other than muffler pressure. The stock tank may have a bladder added to it as long as it meets the previous requirement of not providing additional pressure.
04-03-2007, 12:46 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Don;
So far so good.
Though, I would like to comment on the engine and tank placement statements. Practically speaking, moving the engine down a bit wouldn't provide a noticeable speed advantage. Lowering the engine (and raising the tank) WOULD provide for a better, more consistent fuel draw situation. Our people seem to have a lot of problem with going lean in the turns. This only gets worse as the heat progresses. If we can't move the engine and /or the tank, then the only solution to keeping an engine running strong through to the end of a heat is to go off the line very rich. Allowing the builder to minimize this problem would minimize lean engine runs and make it easier to get a consistent engine run. It certainly isn't a speed or cost issue. Maybe a compromize would be to allow lowering the engine let's say 3/8" and raising the tank as far as practical inside the nose. Bladder tanks are not a speed issue, they are only a consistency issue. As to mandating the size of the tank, what's to stop someone from putting only 4 oz in a 6 oz tank? Either way, I think that tank size isn't a big issue.
I await your further proposals.
Doug Bebensee
So far so good.
Though, I would like to comment on the engine and tank placement statements. Practically speaking, moving the engine down a bit wouldn't provide a noticeable speed advantage. Lowering the engine (and raising the tank) WOULD provide for a better, more consistent fuel draw situation. Our people seem to have a lot of problem with going lean in the turns. This only gets worse as the heat progresses. If we can't move the engine and /or the tank, then the only solution to keeping an engine running strong through to the end of a heat is to go off the line very rich. Allowing the builder to minimize this problem would minimize lean engine runs and make it easier to get a consistent engine run. It certainly isn't a speed or cost issue. Maybe a compromize would be to allow lowering the engine let's say 3/8" and raising the tank as far as practical inside the nose. Bladder tanks are not a speed issue, they are only a consistency issue. As to mandating the size of the tank, what's to stop someone from putting only 4 oz in a 6 oz tank? Either way, I think that tank size isn't a big issue.
I await your further proposals.
Doug Bebensee
04-03-2007, 03:37 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
I got wrapped up at work today. I will try to get more finished over the next couple of days.
I will say that I don't like the idea of changing the engine mounting position unless it is a repair. If there are leaning out situations, we have to think about that pretty hard before allowing that kind of change.
I will say that I don't like the idea of changing the engine mounting position unless it is a repair. If there are leaning out situations, we have to think about that pretty hard before allowing that kind of change.
04-03-2007, 05:12 PM
#42
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Don,
Your "supporting guideline" is very good. I do agree with Doug's two points above. The first thing I did on my Raider was lower the engine because I could see that fuel draw was going to be a problem in the turns. If I could've done that without reducing the amount of cylinder sticking out into the breeze, I would've. As it is, the front end looks a little bit cleaner, but I think I canceled out any advantage when I tied the cheeks together with a chin plate of 3/16" balsa. This turns the front end into a square fish-mouth that screams "DRAG!" at everyone who walks by.
I had a metal mount, too, but you've shamed me into going back to the cheesy plastic one. That's OK, it'll teach me not to over-tighten the bolts!
Mr. Crank 'Til It Strips, Then Back Off 1/4 Turn
Your "supporting guideline" is very good. I do agree with Doug's two points above. The first thing I did on my Raider was lower the engine because I could see that fuel draw was going to be a problem in the turns. If I could've done that without reducing the amount of cylinder sticking out into the breeze, I would've. As it is, the front end looks a little bit cleaner, but I think I canceled out any advantage when I tied the cheeks together with a chin plate of 3/16" balsa. This turns the front end into a square fish-mouth that screams "DRAG!" at everyone who walks by.
I had a metal mount, too, but you've shamed me into going back to the cheesy plastic one. That's OK, it'll teach me not to over-tighten the bolts!
Mr. Crank 'Til It Strips, Then Back Off 1/4 Turn
04-03-2007, 11:36 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Our local committee meeting is scheduled for after the race on Saturday. Participation in this meeting is for committe members only. As far as I am concerned, others may observe, but that may be the first vote. All the above modification ideas will be presented. There will be voting. Results will be posted.
Ken Erickson
Committee members, alphabetically, are:
Mike Boyd
Cliff Breiten
Jim Duda
Ken Erickson
Bob Severence
George Sheffield
"Crash" Siegle
Richard Storm
Chuck Waller
Ken Erickson
Committee members, alphabetically, are:
Mike Boyd
Cliff Breiten
Jim Duda
Ken Erickson
Bob Severence
George Sheffield
"Crash" Siegle
Richard Storm
Chuck Waller
04-04-2007, 11:07 AM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Here is my airframe Supporting Guidelines for Club 40 Racing. It only addresses the airframe, and not the engine or race procedures.
The airframes used in Club 40 Racing are to remain essentially stock. The goal is to maintain a level playing field and to have fun. Anyone who has flown R/C for any length of time knows that airplanes get hurt and need repairs. Many modelers learn what areas of a particular model need improvement to hold up to everyday use, or more demanding use in R/C pylon racing. “Common Modeling Practices” will be allowed in the assembly and maintenance of the aircraft. This is not the same as “Common Speed Enhancement Practices” which shall not be allowed. This guide will list the areas that are subject to interpretation and provide guidance for groups and contest directors running Club 40 Races.
The engine shall be mounted upright in the position as provided “out-of-the-box”. Raising or lowering the engine is not allowed. If the front of the aircraft is damaged and needs to be repaired, the builder should attempt to locate the engine in the original position. Shimming the engine mount to change the thrust line is acceptable. The firewalls vary in horizontal and vertical thrust and adjusting the thrust is a common modeling practice. The stock engine mount should be used unless one is not available. Replacement engine mounts should be of the reinforced nylon type. Aluminum engine mounts are not to be used unless a stock or nylon mount is not available. The engine may be moved fore or aft to aid in balancing the aircraft. Engines must be securely attached to the engine mount with four screws.
The supplied plastic spinner may be replaced with a spinner nut or a spinner of not more than 2.5 inches in diameter. Heavy hub spinners are allowed as are spinner weights that fit inside a spinner. It is the modeler’s responsibility to ensure that the spinner assembly is safe. Cracked spinners shall not be used and the spinner must fit the propeller properly.
The sides of the Sky Raider Mach II at the engine compartment sometimes vibrate harmonically or flutter in flight. Two methods of addressing the issue may be used. A piece of wood or tubing may be used to connect the two sides. Doublers of plywood (or similar wood) may be used on the inside of the compartment sides. A combination of the methods may be used. No attempt to enclose or streamline the engine is allowed. No rounding of edges or reshaping of the compartment sides is allowed. Repaired noses should be as close as possible to the original shape. Removal of the compartment sides is not allowed. Openings for clearance of mufflers and needle valves are allowed as needed. Any modification deemed to be an attempt to provide for speed enhancement shall not be allowed.
The tank may be replaced with a tank of at least 6 ounces of capacity. Tanks must be positioned in the provided area and may not be moved back to the CG position. Any brand of tank may be used as long as it meets the capacity requirement. The tank may only be pressurized with muffler pressure. A local option is to allow bubbleless tanks that have an internal bladder to be used as long as the bladder does not provide for additional pressure other than muffler pressure. The stock tank may have a bladder added to it as long as it meets the previous requirement of not providing additional pressure.
Keeping a landing gear in good working order is a challenge for some fields. Especially on grass fields or off runway landings in grass or rough areas. The landing gear block may be reinforced or replaced as needed. The landing gear should be made of wire not less than approximately 5/32” (4mm) in diameter. Alternatively a landing gear may be used that is made from bent flat aluminum stock of not less than approximately 1/8” thickness. The edges of the landing gear may be deburred, but it may not be airfoiled or sharpened for aerodynamic purposes. The wheels must be in essentially the same position as the stock landing gear would put them. Two wheels are required and they must be separated by at least 8.5 inches. If the stock wheels are replaced, the replacement wheels must be at least 0.75” wide and 2.25” in diameter. No streamlined “racing” wheels shall be allowed.
The covering of the airframe may be removed and replaced with similar iron-on covering. No wood may be removed during the re-covering process. However, additional reinforcement shall be allowed, other than sheeting open bay construction areas. Fiberglassing or other reinforcement of the center section of the wing is allowed. The wing may not be thinned using any technique such as sanding. Contest directors may use templates to insure that the wing airfoil has not been modified. The dihedral of the wing must be within 0.25” of the standard dihedral. Intentionally changing or removing the wing dihedral is not allowed. Tail components may be glued in place.
The wings of the LA Racer 40 and Sky Raider Mach II have the same airfoil, wingspan, and wing area. No modifications are required to swap wings. To allow maximum re-use of airframe components, either type of wing may be used on either fuselage type. For Sky Raider Mach II only racing, this allowance does not apply.
Control surfaces may be replaced with parts of the same size and shape if needed due to damage, warping, or insufficient strength. Control surfaces must be hinged using a method similar to the stock hinging method. The hinges should be centered vertically in the hinge joint area. Any number of hinges of any type may be used. However, enough hinges must be used to securely attach the control surface to the mating part. Hinge lines may be sealed using tape, stick-on plastic covering, or iron-on plastic covering. Gap sealing tape or other material that effectively eliminates the gap aerodynamically is not allowed. Sealing the hinge line is allowed to prevent flutter, and to provide better control surface response. The use of hinges that are attached to the top or bottom of the control surface and seal the gap (sometimes called skinned hinges) is not allowed.
The control horns and control surface linkages may be replaced with similar hardware. The position of control horns should be in approximately the same position as specified in the instructions. No internal linkages may be used on the rudder and elevator. Pushrods may be replaced, but must exit the fuselage sides in the same position as provided for by the pre-installed pushrod tubes. Any type of pushrod may be used as long as it is stiff enough and safe.
Servos used must be of the “standard” size. No mini or micro servos are allowed on rudder, elevator, or throttle. Dual ailerons servos are allowed on either the LA Racer 40 or the Sky Raider Mach II. If a single servo is used on the Sky Raider Mach II, it must be of the standard size. If dual servos are used on ailerons on the Sky Raider Mach II, they must be at least mini in size and must provide at least 40 oz/in of torque. Servos used for the ailerons on the LA Racer 40 must be standard size servos. All servos must be mounted with four screws. Mini receivers are allowed if they are full range designs. Battery packs may be of the four or five cell type. They must be of sufficient capacity for a full day of racing without the need for charging between heats. A charging receptacle may be used so that the battery can be charged or tested without taking the wing off.
The engine shall be mounted upright in the position as provided “out-of-the-box”. Raising or lowering the engine is not allowed. If the front of the aircraft is damaged and needs to be repaired, the builder should attempt to locate the engine in the original position. Shimming the engine mount to change the thrust line is acceptable. The firewalls vary in horizontal and vertical thrust and adjusting the thrust is a common modeling practice. The stock engine mount should be used unless one is not available. Replacement engine mounts should be of the reinforced nylon type. Aluminum engine mounts are not to be used unless a stock or nylon mount is not available. The engine may be moved fore or aft to aid in balancing the aircraft. Engines must be securely attached to the engine mount with four screws.
The supplied plastic spinner may be replaced with a spinner nut or a spinner of not more than 2.5 inches in diameter. Heavy hub spinners are allowed as are spinner weights that fit inside a spinner. It is the modeler’s responsibility to ensure that the spinner assembly is safe. Cracked spinners shall not be used and the spinner must fit the propeller properly.
The sides of the Sky Raider Mach II at the engine compartment sometimes vibrate harmonically or flutter in flight. Two methods of addressing the issue may be used. A piece of wood or tubing may be used to connect the two sides. Doublers of plywood (or similar wood) may be used on the inside of the compartment sides. A combination of the methods may be used. No attempt to enclose or streamline the engine is allowed. No rounding of edges or reshaping of the compartment sides is allowed. Repaired noses should be as close as possible to the original shape. Removal of the compartment sides is not allowed. Openings for clearance of mufflers and needle valves are allowed as needed. Any modification deemed to be an attempt to provide for speed enhancement shall not be allowed.
The tank may be replaced with a tank of at least 6 ounces of capacity. Tanks must be positioned in the provided area and may not be moved back to the CG position. Any brand of tank may be used as long as it meets the capacity requirement. The tank may only be pressurized with muffler pressure. A local option is to allow bubbleless tanks that have an internal bladder to be used as long as the bladder does not provide for additional pressure other than muffler pressure. The stock tank may have a bladder added to it as long as it meets the previous requirement of not providing additional pressure.
Keeping a landing gear in good working order is a challenge for some fields. Especially on grass fields or off runway landings in grass or rough areas. The landing gear block may be reinforced or replaced as needed. The landing gear should be made of wire not less than approximately 5/32” (4mm) in diameter. Alternatively a landing gear may be used that is made from bent flat aluminum stock of not less than approximately 1/8” thickness. The edges of the landing gear may be deburred, but it may not be airfoiled or sharpened for aerodynamic purposes. The wheels must be in essentially the same position as the stock landing gear would put them. Two wheels are required and they must be separated by at least 8.5 inches. If the stock wheels are replaced, the replacement wheels must be at least 0.75” wide and 2.25” in diameter. No streamlined “racing” wheels shall be allowed.
The covering of the airframe may be removed and replaced with similar iron-on covering. No wood may be removed during the re-covering process. However, additional reinforcement shall be allowed, other than sheeting open bay construction areas. Fiberglassing or other reinforcement of the center section of the wing is allowed. The wing may not be thinned using any technique such as sanding. Contest directors may use templates to insure that the wing airfoil has not been modified. The dihedral of the wing must be within 0.25” of the standard dihedral. Intentionally changing or removing the wing dihedral is not allowed. Tail components may be glued in place.
The wings of the LA Racer 40 and Sky Raider Mach II have the same airfoil, wingspan, and wing area. No modifications are required to swap wings. To allow maximum re-use of airframe components, either type of wing may be used on either fuselage type. For Sky Raider Mach II only racing, this allowance does not apply.
Control surfaces may be replaced with parts of the same size and shape if needed due to damage, warping, or insufficient strength. Control surfaces must be hinged using a method similar to the stock hinging method. The hinges should be centered vertically in the hinge joint area. Any number of hinges of any type may be used. However, enough hinges must be used to securely attach the control surface to the mating part. Hinge lines may be sealed using tape, stick-on plastic covering, or iron-on plastic covering. Gap sealing tape or other material that effectively eliminates the gap aerodynamically is not allowed. Sealing the hinge line is allowed to prevent flutter, and to provide better control surface response. The use of hinges that are attached to the top or bottom of the control surface and seal the gap (sometimes called skinned hinges) is not allowed.
The control horns and control surface linkages may be replaced with similar hardware. The position of control horns should be in approximately the same position as specified in the instructions. No internal linkages may be used on the rudder and elevator. Pushrods may be replaced, but must exit the fuselage sides in the same position as provided for by the pre-installed pushrod tubes. Any type of pushrod may be used as long as it is stiff enough and safe.
Servos used must be of the “standard” size. No mini or micro servos are allowed on rudder, elevator, or throttle. Dual ailerons servos are allowed on either the LA Racer 40 or the Sky Raider Mach II. If a single servo is used on the Sky Raider Mach II, it must be of the standard size. If dual servos are used on ailerons on the Sky Raider Mach II, they must be at least mini in size and must provide at least 40 oz/in of torque. Servos used for the ailerons on the LA Racer 40 must be standard size servos. All servos must be mounted with four screws. Mini receivers are allowed if they are full range designs. Battery packs may be of the four or five cell type. They must be of sufficient capacity for a full day of racing without the need for charging between heats. A charging receptacle may be used so that the battery can be charged or tested without taking the wing off.
04-04-2007, 11:36 AM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Bob - have you tached your motor with and without a Bubbleless Tank? They are NOT speed enhancing...they are "Consistency Enhancing" which is good. If you're thinking of a pen bladder type (like Control Line Combat uses), which supplies it's own pressure, the Bubbleless tanks we are talking about are not this kind. The same muffler pressure that a standard size tank uses to pressurize the fuel is what supplies the pressure in a Bubbleless type. Don't want any confusion about this...
04-04-2007, 01:40 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Jim,
I completely agree that a standard tank and a bubbless tank will have the same max rpm on the ground. Where I see Bob's point (and agree) is that you can leave an engine with bubbless tank leaner on the line when taking off and not have to worry about it going lean late in the race. The standard tank will need to be left richer off the line (IMO) to avoid a lean condition late in the race.
Add to it the expense and hassle to the relative newcomer, and I don't think its in the spirit of what this class was intended to be.
I completely agree that a standard tank and a bubbless tank will have the same max rpm on the ground. Where I see Bob's point (and agree) is that you can leave an engine with bubbless tank leaner on the line when taking off and not have to worry about it going lean late in the race. The standard tank will need to be left richer off the line (IMO) to avoid a lean condition late in the race.
Add to it the expense and hassle to the relative newcomer, and I don't think its in the spirit of what this class was intended to be.
04-04-2007, 01:41 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Bubbleless tanks protect engines from inconsistent fuel supply.
I would prefer to let people have the option of using bubbleless tanks over moving the engine mount location.
I even use bubbleless tanks on the test stand a lot of the time.
However, since I started setting up Club 40 planes I have only used the stock tank and I haven't had any problems. But I have had the occaisional burp.
I think if the stock tank can be easily converted, it may be a minor issue.
I would prefer to let people have the option of using bubbleless tanks over moving the engine mount location.
I even use bubbleless tanks on the test stand a lot of the time.
However, since I started setting up Club 40 planes I have only used the stock tank and I haven't had any problems. But I have had the occaisional burp.
I think if the stock tank can be easily converted, it may be a minor issue.
04-04-2007, 01:52 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
Dave -
I'll counter that anything that makes it easier for the newcomer to get a good engine run (and possibly prevent frying his/her engine) is "in the spirit of what this class was intended to be". Hassle? Both tanks have to be assembled (Bubbless is actually easier) so that's a non-issue. Yes, Bubbleless is more expensive - but losing a $90.00 motor (TT) from going lean is too.
Let's leave it up to the individual CDs to decide...
I'll counter that anything that makes it easier for the newcomer to get a good engine run (and possibly prevent frying his/her engine) is "in the spirit of what this class was intended to be". Hassle? Both tanks have to be assembled (Bubbless is actually easier) so that's a non-issue. Yes, Bubbleless is more expensive - but losing a $90.00 motor (TT) from going lean is too.
Let's leave it up to the individual CDs to decide...
04-04-2007, 03:23 PM
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RE: Club 40 - Rules / Mod discussion
I really can see it both ways Jim. I use Bubbless tanks in EVERY plane I own, and wouldn't think of using a clunk tank.
However, it WILL be percieved as an advantage by some of those that don't have them. No matter how you try to explain it.
Its all about perception.
However, it WILL be percieved as an advantage by some of those that don't have them. No matter how you try to explain it.
Its all about perception.