CellTech

I've never done any racing but a fair amount of RC over the years. This looks like an interesting event. It seems that after reading a lot of posts people are using a couple of ARFs for the racers. Why use expensive airplanes? How about kits or scratch built models, are they allowed? I think a Four Star Forty would be perfect for this event and can scratch build them for considerably less price than the Barfs, along with my own finishing.

Also seems like most are using Thunder Tiger 40 engines. If this is a fun event to get into the sport of Pylon racing why not something cheaper like a Super Tiger 40 at thirty plus dollars less then the Thunder Tiger?

Just my observations, curious as to why such expensive equipment is being used for an entry level event that should be to draw in new participatns.

Are club forty rules established by individual clubs or are their seet standards. Wouldn't want to build something to fly in a local club just to find out it would not be allowed at another contest

Thanks

gunfighter

My Feedback: (1)

I'll take a shot at an answer.

When we started this class, we wanted an airplane (or airplanes) that would be very easy for any one to put together and still be competative. The world models Sky Raider and later the LA Racer were perfect to fit the needs of this new class. In the beginning we allowed several other aircraft, but they never caught on because of extra cost.

The reason we did (do) not allow scratch built aircraft is that some people can build even a kit, much lighter (and stronger) using some of the composites on the market. this is meant to be a pilots race and to that end, we only allow certain aircraft, built (assembled) to instructions and utilizing the parts that come in the ARF kit.

When stocks became low a while back, one of our locals in the Texas group (who owns a lazer cutting machine) put together a "Clone Raider" using american standard wood (basla and ply). We allow this in our races as long as it is also built to instructions. It is an exact copy of the Sky Raider mach 2.

As to engines, we also allow the ST GS 40 in both Novice (with spec 11x4 prop) and Advanced class (any prop). However, it can not hold a candle to the TT Pro 40. The TT is much more "user friendly" and turns much higher RPM.

Put together a SRM 2 and slap a TT Pro 40 on it with a 10x5 APC and join the fun. You will NOT be disapointed! You might even be amazed at how nimble this combination really is!!!

DonStegall

My Feedback: (1)

I'll add this ... Go to [link=http://www.Club40Racing.com]www.Club40Racing.com[/link] for the rules, engines, and allowed modifications.

I do have some updates to add that the RCPRO Club 40 Committee have approved.

No, this is not an AMA Rulebook event. It is an event that has proven itself and is growing wildly partially because someone can buy a plane and engine on Wednesday and race it on Saturday. Some even do it in one night after doing one or two. And the planes groove well and handle well on either a 2 pole or 3 pole course. They are steerable on the ground and are "Club" and grass runway friendly.

There are groups all over the country that are using the formula, or mild variations of it.

I will tell you that the reason the Four Star 40 does not do as well is because of the semi-symmetrical wing without a D-tube. If the covering rips in front of the spar, the plane WILL crash. The Sky Raider Mach II (aka SRM2) and LA Racer 40 can take a lot of abuse and stay in the air.

If you get one, do not use the recommended throws or you will have a wild aerobatic animal on your hands. While not everyone can do it, I have even seen them torque rolled.

dwbebens

CellTech;

There is an organization called RCPRO that has formulated a baseline set of Club 40 rules which most of the groups around the country are following. This website should answer a lot of your questions in regard to the rules

http://www.rcpro.org/html/rules/club_40/rules.htm

Many clubs hosting Club 40 may deviate somewhat from these rules because of local preferences, though it is recommended that clubs stay essentially within the framework of the RCPRO rules for compatibility reasons.

We only allow the two airframes in Club 40. It main intent of this class is to provide an inexpensive, easy to fly, non-intimidating introduction to pylon racing for the novice using less expensive engines such as the ST GS 40. Also, in the Advanced class, it provides a more intense and competitive event for the more experienced pylon pilots using the TT Pro 40 engine. Another goal of this class is to provide and maintain a level playing field for everyone.

The cost of these two planes (World Models Skyraider Mk II and the LA Racer) are very reasonable compared to the planes required in other race classes and they are ideally suited for new-to-pylon pilots. They are very easy planes to take-off and land and at the same time are very stable around a race course. The speeds are in the 70-90 mph range, depending on the engine and class; well within the capabilities of the average sport pilot. Very few modifications are allowed. No speed enhancing modifications are allowed. A person who becomes proficient in this class could easily move up to a more demanding race class such as AMA 424, etc.

These planes can be ordered in many solid colors, and the Skyraider Mk II can be order un-covered.

Read further in the forums about Club 40. There is a wealth of information on the subject.

Doug Bebensee

cwesh

Hi CellTech,

I will toss my thoughts on the ARF vs building side.

Can you really build a clone for less than a $89.99 Sky Raider ARF? Simply put: Nope. If one sits down and prices out what scratch building one really costs, i.e. all new parts from the hobby shop / Tower, no digging out parts / materials from the parts bin in the shop, you will spend at least as much as the ARF, most likely more. Of course that does not even consider ones time.

For example, for me to build up a new Clone Raider at my cost (I am the one who sells them), excluding radio and engine and not using salvaged parts, I will put around $100.00 into it. Some one who buys my kit ($70.00) and uses all new parts, will spend ~ $130.00 on one. Where one can save with my kit, is someone who has a crashed Sky Raider ARF and does not wish to simply buy a new ARF, they can use those parts to build up a new one. Now you are down to buying not much more than a couple of rolls of covering, and glue, depending on what survived the crash and how much you want to salvage.

Personally, I would prefer to build than buy, of course, with the 'Raiders, I am a bit biased towards building!

Food for thought......

Later!

CellTech

Thanks for the replys. What all comes with the clone raider kit? How much do you charge for shipping? Any photos.

Thanks!

cwesh

The Clone kit has all the wood needed to build one, no hardware. The builder will provide the motor mount, fuel tank, landing gear wire, LG hold down straps, wheels (main and tail), spinner, push rods, hinges, control horns, strip aileron set, tail wheel bracket, covering, canopy. and I am sure something else I am not remembering.

Info is here: http://www.sanalomalaser.com/clone_raider.php

The only photo I have is on that web page, probably wouldn't hurt to take some more of the bare wing and fuse I have on the shelf.

Later!

DonStegall

My Feedback: (1)

Chuck,

A photo of the laid out fuselage parts would be great.

Your fuselage kit at $25 is a really good deal for people who repair the Sky Raiders. Most of the ones I see have more fuselage damage than anything else. Often the wings are repairable.

A great repair kit to have on hand is 2 fuselage kits and 1 or 2 tail kits plus shipping.

I still believe that someone who is just starting in Club 40 should buy a solid color ARF, or an uncovered ARC, so that they know what the stock ARF/ARC kits have to offer, and so that they get in the air as quickly as possible.

Thanks for providing the kit option.

still4given

What are the differences between the Sky Raider and the LA Racer?

DonStegall

My Feedback: (1)

I will give you a detailed run-down on the differences, even though the pictures tell a lot of the story. SRM2 = Sky Raider Mach II

• The LA Racer 40 has dual aileron servos in the wing. They hang out in the breeze. But they eliminate the slop that can develop in the SRM2 torque rods. Plus you can use mixing to make the roll of the plane more axial. I have some SRM2’s with dual mini servos internal, but the torque rods are not as tight as the direct linkage on the LA Racer 40.

• The LA Racer 40 has a fiberglass cowl for the engine. It uses a 2 1/4 spinner.

• The fuselage on the LA Racer has a rounded top deck and a sleeker looking canopy. While it looks more aerodynamic, the reality is that the additional wetted area probably evens out with the smaller SRM2 fuselage.

• The fin on the LA Racer fits into a slot in the top of the fuselage. The SRM2 has some 1/8� x 1/2� doublers on the bottom of the fin that probably add a little drag.

• The landing gear is longer on the LA Racer. It helps on grass runways, but it tends to deform more than the SRM2 landing gear. It does give more on hard landings.

• The wing airfoil is the same on the two planes. The ailerons go all the way to the tip on the LA Racer 40. They stop 1� from the tip on the SRM2.

• The stabilizer is the same

• The rudder is slightly smaller on the LA Racer 40 and is not constant chord like the SRM2 rudder

• The moments are identical on the planes. They fly nearly identical, but the LA Racer 40 is a little heavier and does not seem to turn quite as tight. The rudder on the SRM2 seems to have a little more authority for aerobatics and possibly knife edge.

Some like the styling of the LA Racer 40 better. Some like the simplistic style of the SRM2 better.

We are lucky to have AirBorne Models and The World Models working to refine the line. They have made changes to improve the models and they have produced solid color versions of each with CA hinges that make customizing the color scheme or recovering easier. The SRM2 ARC is no cheaper than the ARF, but for people who want to use different base colors or MonoKote or Ultracote, it is well worth the same price to not have to strip and clean up the covering residue (best done with acetone by the way).

I know you guys have a good Warbird racing program in Arizona, but I think Club 40 would do very well for monthly races in a circuit in AZ.

skull1971

About $10, as far as racing, or just flying, they're ABOUT the same.

DonStegall

My Feedback: (1)

Go for the Thunder Tiger Pro 40 engine over the SuperTigre GS-40.

I had heard that the GS-40 has a problem with the carb. Sure enough after a 150+ flights on one of my GS-40 powered planes, the carb locked up while my son was racing it. When I took the carb apart, it was very hard to get the barrel out. The aluminum carb had galled against the steel barrel. I know of 2 people locally that the same thing has happened to. So it is not an isolated instance.

The TT Pro 40 needs a little prep as well. But it holds up well and is the best performing engine that is on the Club 40 Approved Engine List. It has proven itself in AMA 424 and Club 40.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

The TT .40 is an excellent engine!
I have several of them and haven't had a lick of problem.

DonStegall

My Feedback: (1)

The only issues with the TT Pro 40 are the barrel retaining screw and the muffler.

I had heard that the retaining screw could come out and that it should have Red Loctite put on it. I've never had one come out until the last race. Matthew went to fly his final round and the barrel was out of position. The retaining screw had backed out. This plane had 300+ flights on it. It is my oldest surviving Sky Raider Mach II ... the first yellow one in the country. Unfortunately it cost Matthew a round. So I'm going to pull the carbs on my TT Pro 40's and put the Loctite on them.

The muffler coming apart is the other well known problem. If you tighten the muffler screw too tight, it will break and the muffler comes apart. Even straight from the factory, they can come apart at the rev's we run them at. Some use all-thread and lock-nuts. I use four 1/4" x 4-40 bolts at the joint and put PermaTex Black on the joint and screw heads as well as the nut on the end cap. Never had one of these come apart. A lot of people use JB Weld and swear by that method. Some even weld them together. With the baffle, of course.

gunfighter

My Feedback: (1)

Don,
While you have that carb. apart, pull out the small spring that pushes the barrell. Just pull the barrell out and tip the engine over and it will fall out. If the retaining screw comes loose in flight, the carb. barrell can shift and the engine will "eat" that spring.

I lost my very best engine due to this! A stainless steel spring entering the engine at top RPM will definately ruin your day!

alex a v

Received your PM, Thanks Don.