SushiSeeker

This issue came up when talking with some friends about the use of UAV's as surveillance drones. When one of these things fly over your property, is it a trespass or only if it is under some height?

- Does flying over someone's house technically constitute trespass?
- How high above the dirt do you own?
- Can you fly a plane or heli, or have a ham radio antenna extend over your neighbor's property as long as it is above a certain height?

This is an academic question. I'm not trying to settle a dispute or annoy my neighbors, just asking an interesting question... for now

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Interesting...

What little I know on the subject is that if you have an apple tree that hangs over your neighbor's property line, he is entitled to take any apples on his side.

Private planes must not fly below a certain level in a residential area, so I would assume the same applies to drones.

SushiSeeker

500 ft I think, but this is an FAA rule and has nothing (I think) to do with property rights.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

It's been 36 years ago, I recall auditing a business law class. Fellow named Neil Harl was teaching it, and he said "You may not, for example, erect a 300 foot pole on your property." In today's context, that would be an attempt to deter hang gliders, UAV's, RC planes and ultralights.

I don't think you own anything that's not brick & mortar (or wood, nails & shingles) above your ground. Real estate is just that, real, not the wind that blows in and out.

My favorite author once wrote "You don't REALLY own anything you can't carry in both arms, at a dead run!"

Best I can do.
Dave Olson

daven

My Feedback: (1)

That is a great quote Dave!

Silent-AV8R

This has some info:

http://www.cpeo.org/lists/military/1997/msg00435.html

from that document:

Followed by this:

This has some good info as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights

SushiSeeker

So I can overfly my neighbor, I just have to do it in "air space".

Charlie P.

Doesn't seem like that would be true.

Does he own a rifle or shotgun?

bowlboy

In California a homeowner own the land from the the core of the earth to the space above. Aircraft are granted the automatic right to fly in your airspace.

KW_Counter

Years ago when an airline flew over a dry state they had to collect all of the drinks.
To my knowledge this has gone away. Giving the idea they do not own the airspace.

I do not believe flying over your neighbors house is against the law in and of itself.
However, is what you are doing placing him or his property in danger?
Do you have a camera on-board and invading his privacy?
Are you violating an FAA minimum height rule?

These are just the ones I know of - think what a lawyer could come up with.

Nice thread,
KW_Counter

carrellh

A lot depends on where you live. In some places there are ordinances that determine whether you can fly over someone else's property.

How do these ordinances come about?

SushiSeeker flies his model and it passes over the neighbor's property. The neighbor does not like it. Sushi is not endangering the neighbor, in fact, he is flying several hundred yards from the neighbor's house (over an open pasture). Neighbor may or may not say anything to Sushi but he does complain to the local government. Local governments are not very smart. "Oh No!!!!! What if the out of control machine injured a child??????" Model flying over someone else's property is banned, or possibly all model flying is banned.

Silent-AV8R

Can you cite a source for this statement?

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

I have a hard time with the above statement also. Not just from the air standpoint, but also from the mineral rights standpoint. I don't know about CA, but in OK 90% of the people in town have no mineral rights. If they directional drill under your section and hit gas/oil. You get nothing. I would assume a cole mine has these same rights.

David

SushiSeeker

I have a problem with this, too. There are about 3,000 satellites in orbit, not to mention the moon that has to pass over CA. Space is not considered any nation's sovereign territory and that is why space is used extensively for surveillance.

I'd like to research the mineral rights fact a bit. Mineral rights are much better established law than airspace so the directional drilling information surprises me. Now I understand that an oil reserve can be drilled from one location and drawn out kind of like a balloon (but made from rock). Just because some of this oil is under your property doesn't mean it can't get sucked out from a hole on your neighbor's property. But a mine? I would think (I'm not an attorney) that tunneling under your neighbor's property is the same form of trespass (maybe worse) thing as walking across it. If you were caught digging a tunnel under a bank, I doubt that you could claim "mineral rights".

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

In the context of models flying over another's property, in most states nuisance and trespass laws would be the property owner's options.  Those laws vary state by state, as do their interpretations.

chunkyplunker

Here in W.V., a coal mine state, mineral rights are can be purchased separately from the surface rights. As an example my home has been undermine for several years at two different levels, but the landowner saw no money for the mined coal.

It's a large business here of purchasing and selling mineral rights by large corporations and some individuals. The coal can be mined from a mine site miles away without landowners permission and without reimbursement. However they mine operator is responsible for any damage caused by any subsidence reaching the surface while the mine is in operation; afterwards any damage caused by subsidence is covered by a fund that is paid into by the mining companies, If you can collect. It is usually buildings that are victims of mine subsidence.

It is very hard too find any property that has not already been undermined once. When property is bought, the deed will state whether or not the mineral rights is included, or if just surface rights only is sold to you.

Live Wire

Air Space Just don't crash Then who own's the plane

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

That is how mineral rights work here also. When you buy land the minerals are a sepperate sale if at all. Most never sell them. Even if you are never drilled on there is money to be made from leasing your mineral rights. Companies will pay $800-$2000 an acre for 3 years at a time to lease the rights to your minerals. This just keeps another company from getting the oil/gas. Most of the drilling here is for gas anyway. The oil is just a bonus. The average land owner only gets 3/16th of the production. The oil company gets the rest. Of course they pay for the drilling. I could go on but it's complicated and it's kind of off topic.

David

Live Wire

Just don't plant it that deep

Once your plane touched the ground . It belongs to the property owner[:@]

rcdude7

My Feedback: (264)

Unless that plane, aircraft, spacecraft, or parts therof are govt property.

Live Wire

Sorry I do not want to get into thAT, CAN GET A LITTLE STICKY
Then It is a new ball game

NitroWoman

Or a UFO and you live near Roswell.[X(]

Sport_Pilot

This is a good summery of air rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_rights

NoelJ

Your property rights go up as high as your shotgun shoots.

Hossfly

I own 7 properties, 1 in Michigan and 6 in TX. I own mineral rights in 2 TX owned properties, and I own the mineral rights for one other property that I sold some years. When I purchased the property, it came with mineral rights, when I sold it I retained the mineral rights as I did have a 3 year lease at one time. But a dry hole! [sm=cry_smile.gif]

There is a Federal Law that precludes a land-owner from not allowing exploration persons on the property when the land-owner does not own mineral rights. They can come and go at their pleasure. No doubt who got that law passed.
Property owners do not own any air rights. Depending on the states, a person can protect his/her structures on his property. Anyone flying an RC airplane over my property would be subject to a "Discussion". [sm=48_48.gif]