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  1. #251
    sensei's Avatar
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    I also do not agree that ARFs will be the extinction of the hobby because if someone want to build an airplane, a boat, a car, a motorcycle, or anything for that matter, then they are going to build it because it is in there blood to build, it is who they are. Building and working with ones hands is not for everyone and there is certainly nothing wrong with that, and IMO does not constitute a lazy individual that may now be part of the the death of our beloved hobby...

    If you want to promote and keep the hobby alive and well, then help others in achieving their goals in whatever their interest of the hobby may be. Ridicule them or call them names and you are probably one of the largest contributor's of killing interest in the hobby in the first place.

    Bob
    Fly It Like You Stole It!!!

  2. #252

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    Why people keep bringing this endless topic up and why people continue to reply with their same 2 cents, is beyond me. The other one endless topic is IC versus electric. Does anyone think that they are going to bring back majority participation in the hobby by scratch or kit building and wipe out ARF's by bemoaning their popularity? Few people build their furniture from scratch but many buy quick assembly prefinished furniture. (So what?) I'll bet that if cheap foamie and ply electric and IC powered ARF's were available in the 70's they would have become just as popular.

  3. #253
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    "If you want to promote and keep the hobby alive and well, then help others in achieving their goals in whatever their interest of the hobby may be. Ridicule them or call them names and you are probably one of the largest contributor's of killing interest in the hobby in the first place.

    Bob"


    Yes, very well put and quite truthful.


    I have many hobbies, yet my main is RC Sailplanes. We have our "Purist" that claim to put a motor on a sailplane makes it no longer a sailplane. Even worse, are those with scale sailplanes and especially vintage sailplanes, that putting a motor on it would be "Sacrilegious"



    Jared
    Jared (Tip) Stalls

  4. #254

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    Wow, what a thread! I started building control line models back in the early 60's. Back then, you had to build from a kit, plans. As a kid with no money, I usually built from AMA plans that I redrew from the magazine. I can understand why a lot of folks never build, or would ever want to. But for me and others, building is very theraputic, and offers something to take personal pride in. I have both ARF's and kit built planes. If more kits were available in giant scale form, I'd probably buy them. In general, the average Joe Flyer isn't interested in the added time and expense it takes to build a kit. Most of the members of our r/c club don't have a clue of what it takes to build and cover a plane, let alone do some sort of structural repair. Out of 50+ members, there are only 3 or 4 of us that actually build. The non-builders can argue their point, but for me, building is half the fun. When its cold and windy like today, I can always enjoy building inside.
    Chuck

  5. #255
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    I was absent from the hobby for 25 years, then got back into it about 5 years ago with a simulator and a Big Stik .40 ARF. I've since assembled manyARFs, ranging from a 70mm EDFjet to an Aeroworks P-51and can say thatARF quality isquite good from most manufacturers. My desire to assemble ARFs versus build kits was/is based on my limited time for building and the fact that with an ARF, I have more time to do scale detailing, my first true love in modeling. Now that I'm firmly back in the hobby, I've decided to try kit building again. I've always liked building better than flying (and I've been a professional pilot all my adult life!). I bought a Sig Kougar, a kit that I built in 1979 when I first started RC modeling. Since starting (now nearly finished), I have once again fallen in love with kit building! I find myself searching online for old kits that I'd like to build. Granted, you must have some level of skill with tools and techniques to succesfully complete a kit, but the best way to learn is to start the kit and ask for help when you need it.
    I've been returned to my roots and I'm having a blast building kits!
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    Apache Pilot: Because fighter pilots need heroes, too...

  6. #256
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?


    ORIGINAL: E-Challenged

    Why people keep bringing this endless topic up and why people continue to reply with their same 2 cents, is beyond me. The other one endless topic is IC versus electric. Does anyone think that they are going to bring back majority participation in the hobby by scratch or kit building and wipe out ARF's by bemoaning their popularity? Few people build their furniture from scratch but many buy quick assembly prefinished furniture. (So what?) I'll bet that if cheap foamie and ply electric and IC powered ARF's were available in the 70's they would have become just as popular.
    Do you realize that you just put your own 2 cents in there... No ill will my friend, it just struck me funny.

    Bob
    Fly It Like You Stole It!!!

  7. #257

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    Last several control line airplanes I have built have been from plans or my own design. Due to health issues I am seriously considering taking up RC. I've been advised to learn on a cheap ARF. and may do so. However, I really want to build a Vick Smeed Tomboy, scaled up a bit for the diesel I want to put in it. I'm still deciding what I want to do. I do enjoy building, but I prefer for my creations to have a fairly long life. I don't need a crashed Tomboy.

  8. #258
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?


    ORIGINAL: saraholt61

    ARFs will eventually kill the hobby.I see guys getting started in the hobby,buy only ARFs and burn out after 2 years.They believe that flying is the only aspect of the hobby.As soon as they learn how to fly-there is no more challenge and they quit.They will never realize that most of the real enjoyment and challenge is in the building. We have several 80 year old flyers at our club that have all built scale planes and are just as enthusiastic as the newbies.Thats what you won t see in the next 30 yearsolder club members. Because the guys starting the hobby now and who buy ARFs only will leave the hobby prematurelythey won t stay indefinately into their 80s.
    I would say ARFs bring more people to this hobby than ever before...

    There has always been a HUGE attrition rate in RC aircraft.. only about 20% of those who start actually learn to fly properly, and about 20% of those persist with it for a lifetime...

    I learned to fly when I was 14, I hate building,

    I didn'tlearn to fly and quit....

    I am still flying 34 years later....

    I hate building...

    If I had to build every new aircraft I would have stopped buying them LONG ago...

    Maybe for you the real challenge and enjoyment is building, but not everybody is the same.

    I love theARFs, I have bought more planes in the past 3 years than the previous 31 combined...

    ARFs certainly will not kill the hobby... look at youtube and the number of people flying RC these days....

    Actually, I should clarify...

    I hate building with BALSA.... sanding and cutting and trimming etc... just tedious and boring for me..

    I actually do like assembling the Helicopter Kits, They arrive in a small box of nuts and bolts and individual parts.

    My current fleet

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVH_T1cvm5s[/youtube]
    ..... frakkin cylons...

  9. #259
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?


    ORIGINAL: E-Challenged

    Why people keep bringing this endless topic up and why people continue to reply with their same 2 cents, is beyond me. The other one endless topic is IC versus electric. Does anyone think that they are going to bring back majority participation in the hobby by scratch or kit building and wipe out ARF's by bemoaning their popularity? Few people build their furniture from scratch but many buy quick assembly prefinished furniture. (So what?) I'll bet that if cheap foamie and ply electric and IC powered ARF's were available in the 70's they would have become just as popular.
    If they were available in the 70's I would have owned dozens of RC planes instead of the 4 I loathingly had to build myself...

    Great example with the furniture...

    Some people love building furniture also...
    ..... frakkin cylons...

  10. #260

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    Evidently some wish to waste money on cheap junk.

  11. #261

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    Sensei, much the same thing went on in model railroading when I was involved in it in the Sixties: every subdivision of the hobby detested the others. It got most vituperative between O-scale and HO-scale, but kitbuilders and scratchbuilders were at each other's throats except when they ganged up on ready-made. In fact, they tried to pressure manufacturers not to offer ready-made passenger cars, because possession of those was the mark of the pure craftsman.

    And as for amateur radio: just say "No-code license" around an old-line ham and see what happens. Or say "snowboard" around a skier, or "snowmobile" around either one.

    One could give plenty of examples about jock sports, but I don't know any because I don't care about those...;-)

    Anyway, when I like something I practice it and try to get better. If somebody else prefers to do it differently well, I'm guided by Mark Twain's words in regard to certain sexual behaviors: "I don't care what they do, as long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses".

  12. #262

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    Couldn't agree more Summerwind
    I don\'\'\'\'t always crash, but when I do!

  13. #263
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    ORIGINAL: warbird addict

    Sorry what did I miss I was busy mixing up a batch of beer brew so I can wait six months to drink it LOL You've got a pretty polluted sense of the world my friend , My freezer is full of Deer meat, my bills are paid, I work over 80 hours a week and I only weigh like what maybe 150 pounds soakin wet and very rarely watch TV, somehow in your wild fantastic grip of reality I'm somehow lazy because I don't stick build everything I fly ? Yes I''m addressing you personally and asking, you given the time restraints I and many others have , what is one to do to lift this label of LAZY and obese you have selfishly imposed on everyone who doesn't abide by your vision of how things should be, build from midnight and 2 am only to get up at 430 am to go to work just to be on your favs list, I'll pass thanks, So let me get this straight because you somehow manage to find the time to build and others don't that makes them lazy and obese and because your schedule permits you to do that then theres no reason anybody else should have a reason not too? because if thats the case you lead a very one dimensional existence with absolutely no knowledge of the world around you
    You must think that you represent the average American out of the thousands upon thousands that I am talking about..?
    I'll take a YES or a NO answer to that question.

    You must think that the statistics that claim the highest obesity rate in man's history is also false..?
    I'll take a YES or a NO answer to that question.

    You must also think that obesity does not contribute to laziness..? That it has no effect on a person's energy or ambition..?
    I'll take a YES or a NO answer to that question.

    If you DO believe that obesity leads to laziness and that it is at epidemic proportions [such as public service announcements that beg children to get at least 20 minutes of exercise daily, the rise in diabetes and juvenile heart disease]...then explain to me how this problem does not invade the RC hobby at a representative ratio that is consistent with the general population.
    Please explain how that is possible.
    I am eagerly waiting your simple YES or NO answers to the questions that were asked of you plus I can't wait to read your explanation as to how the RC culture is totally immune to the epidemic that is by now common knowledge.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  14. #264

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    The short simple answer of why people don't build kits is... because Arf's are afordable... And... The generation born in the 70's to present has evolved to I want it now... Kit you spend many hours building... Arf is satisfying in a much shorter period of time...

    Personally, I like both... I haven't had the time nor desire to build kits, so an Arf was the choice...

    LD

  15. #265

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    We built kits in the 60's and 70s because we had to if we wanted to fly. The first ARFs were awful. The EZ kits from Japan were the first great flying ARFs in the early 80s. The ARFs started getting better and better after that. You see the result. Most guys can't build as well as the factory guys. The new planes are lighter, structurally more perfect, and less expensive. The ARF product serves a need. No one says you can't still build. Good luck with that. The Chinese are building my planes. I make them mine with my radio, engines, retracts, trim schemes, etc. See you at the field.
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  16. #266

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg




    If you DO believe that obesity leads to laziness and that it is at epidemic proportions [such as public service announcements that beg children to get at least 20 minutes of exercise daily, the rise in diabetes and juvenile heart disease]...then explain to me how this problem does not invade the RC hobby at a representative ratio that is consistent with the general population.
    Please explain how that is possible.
    I am eagerly waiting your simple YES or NO answers to the questions that were asked of you plus I can't wait to read your explanation as to how the RC culture is totally immune to the epidemic that is by now common knowledge.
    If from the start you had said there is probably the same ratio of obese people in modeling as in the general population,
    I would have agreed in a New York minute.
    Actually, I wouldn't have commented at all, since it is obvious.

  17. #267
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    ORIGINAL: 804


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg




    If you DO believe that obesity leads to laziness and that it is at epidemic proportions [such as public service announcements that beg children to get at least 20 minutes of exercise daily, the rise in diabetes and juvenile heart disease]...then explain to me how this problem does not invade the RC hobby at a representative ratio that is consistent with the general population.
    Please explain how that is possible.
    I am eagerly waiting your simple YES or NO answers to the questions that were asked of you plus I can't wait to read your explanation as to how the RC culture is totally immune to the epidemic that is by now common knowledge.
    If from the start you had said there is probably the same ratio of obese people in modeling as in the general population,
    I would have agreed in a New York minute.
    Actually, I wouldn't have commented at all, since it is obvious.
    Well then there's hope for you yet...!
    804...When it comes to discussing trends on a large scale, it doesn't do much good for guys to jump in and say, "Hey! I'm not fat! I work 100 hours a week! Therefore your theory is a bunch of BS!"
    Guys who can't think on a level beyond that are better off excusing themselves from discussions about trends on a large scale..as in tens of thousands, perhaps millions of people worldwide.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  18. #268

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    Your explanation is a good one I like it.
    Just saying
    I don\'\'\'\'t always crash, but when I do!

  19. #269

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg

    ORIGINAL: 804


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg




    If you DO believe that obesity leads to laziness and that it is at epidemic proportions [such as public service announcements that beg children to get at least 20 minutes of exercise daily, the rise in diabetes and juvenile heart disease]...then explain to me how this problem does not invade the RC hobby at a representative ratio that is consistent with the general population.
    Please explain how that is possible.
    I am eagerly waiting your simple YES or NO answers to the questions that were asked of you plus I can't wait to read your explanation as to how the RC culture is totally immune to the epidemic that is by now common knowledge.
    If from the start you had said there is probably the same ratio of obese people in modeling as in the general population,
    I would have agreed in a New York minute.
    Actually, I wouldn't have commented at all, since it is obvious.
    Well then there's hope for you yet...!
    804...When it comes to discussing trends on a large scale, it doesn't do much good for guys to jump in and say, ''Hey! I'm not fat! I work 100 hours a week! Therefore your theory is a bunch of BS!''
    Guys who can't think on a level beyond that are better off excusing themselves from discussions about trends on a large scale..as in tens of thousands, perhaps millions of people worldwide.
    Hope for me, as in you think I am agreeing to your persisting nagging that there is a direct link between ARFS and laziness?
    No Sir!
    Only what I agreed to in my previous post.
    The two ideas are worlds apart.

  20. #270
    combatpigg's Avatar
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    ORIGINAL: 804


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg

    ORIGINAL: 804


    ORIGINAL: combatpigg




    If you DO believe that obesity leads to laziness and that it is at epidemic proportions [such as public service announcements that beg children to get at least 20 minutes of exercise daily, the rise in diabetes and juvenile heart disease]...then explain to me how this problem does not invade the RC hobby at a representative ratio that is consistent with the general population.
    Please explain how that is possible.
    I am eagerly waiting your simple YES or NO answers to the questions that were asked of you plus I can't wait to read your explanation as to how the RC culture is totally immune to the epidemic that is by now common knowledge.
    If from the start you had said there is probably the same ratio of obese people in modeling as in the general population,
    I would have agreed in a New York minute.
    Actually, I wouldn't have commented at all, since it is obvious.
    Well then there's hope for you yet...!
    804...When it comes to discussing trends on a large scale, it doesn't do much good for guys to jump in and say, ''Hey! I'm not fat! I work 100 hours a week! Therefore your theory is a bunch of BS!''
    Guys who can't think on a level beyond that are better off excusing themselves from discussions about trends on a large scale..as in tens of thousands, perhaps millions of people worldwide.
    Hope for me, as in you think I am agreeing to your persisting nagging that there is a direct link between ARFS and laziness?
    No Sir!
    Only what I agreed to in my previous post.
    The two ideas are worlds apart.
    It was probably either Ben Franklin or Mark Twain who said, "People will only believe what they want to believe".
    There are too many other examples of "ARFness" in today's marketplace that would have been ridiculed by the generations of years past. I could just picture my Grandmother paying extra for a bag of chopped lettuce VS taking 30 seconds to chop her own. ..and she worked just as many hours as anyone else.
    If ARFs like Jimmy Walker's Fireball control line stunter from my Dad's era had appealed to his generation enough to snuff out the average man's desire to build his own model, then there would have been a massive push by the marketeers to flood the marketplace with ARFs way back when. There was plenty of cheap, skilled and idle labor to be had before the war, too.
    BTW, the notion that the average man of today has less time to build than the men of yester year is total hog wash.
    What a complete joke that is.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  21. #271

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    It maybe because I have built kits that I feel this generation is missing out on the building. But I have more ARFs than kits. I wish I still had that kind of time.
    I don\'\'\'\'t always crash, but when I do!

  22. #272

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    I have been in the hobby since the fireball time.
    I build from scratch,plans and kits. I also buy and fly ARF's
    ARF's have came into the mainstream mainly because of electric power. Arf's can be bought with the motor,esc and receiver built in. All you have to do is find a place to fly and push a few buttons.Most clubs even have a guy to show you how to do that.
    A lot of those ARF's would not stand up to the vibration or the fuel of the gas or glow engine. They are basically a toy.
    I still like to build my toys. I can't always find what I want.
    In our club there are a lot of IMAC fliers. Not a one of them build their toys. Very expensive toys.
    dirty old men need love too.

  23. #273
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    ORIGINAL: straitnickel

    It maybe because I have built kits that I feel this generation is missing out on the building. But I have more ARFs than kits. I wish I still had that kind of time.
    I think it was 1991 when the Seattle School District ripped out all of their Industrial Arts Shops and millions of dollars worth of equipment and replaced it all with computer labs.
    Of course there are young'uns now with degrees in computer science that are just flooding that job sector. A lot of that work went overseas, too.
    For those who were never destined for college and White Collar type work, it was a shame to destroy the head start that HS shop classes gave many of us in life. I'd like to see Model building and basic aerodynamics offered at 1 school per district as a summer time elective just to see how well it is received.
    I hate to say it, but I think it would flop..even if there was no "lab fees" for supplies, free engines, etc.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???

  24. #274

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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    We had wood, metal, electronics shop, I think we have not seen the full extent of the damage, kids today only know how to push the buttons on a play station, ask one to hand you a 1/2" wrench and they will disapear. I envision a whole country of people who only know how to have other people do thing for them. Whats it going to be like when they get tired of doing the work for us? If that happened. It's a whole new ballgame out there and Im old school I guess.
    I don\'\'\'\'t always crash, but when I do!

  25. #275
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    RE: Why don't many people build RC airplane kits anymore?

    It's not just about ARFs being a more "efficient" way to participate in the hobby of flying model planes...it is also an ARF culture that is getting catered to by the marketeers.
    WHO GUNNA FEED MAW KEEEIDS..???


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