JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

This is the most pompus, arrogant, ill informed, ignorant and stupid statement possible that does nothing to promote 'building' or anything else for that matter. Its serves only as a form of self grantizement to soothe ones ego.

This is not the AMA forums of Rcu or even on the ama forums this is the beginners forum and its embarassing. Now folks like the one who inhabit those forums and make them pretty much uninhabitable by anyone are taking over the beginners, that is the real embarassment here.

Any value in this thread is probably already compromized by now and attitudes such as this. Yes I agree with Jetmech completely This kind of arrogant attitude serves only to destroy real recrutement for anything except for filling the original poster with an increditable sense of superiiority.


John

804

My Feedback: (1)

+1 gazillion x a buttload!

dadragon

Stickbuilder; +1 you hit it.

GaryHarris

Mr. Buckner is back.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I think Stickbuilder's assessment is a generalisation that has a lot of truth behind it.
This generation of Americans is [collectively] the most obese group of folks in the history of mankind.
This is an undisputable fact.
Another undisputable fact is that obesity and laziness go hand in hand. They both work in a vicious circle to feed one another.
The ARF Culture is simply a reflection of this ugly truth.
If you think this observation doesn't apply to you...then good!

378

My Feedback: (4)

Let's see here....I suppose the guy that had his arm shot off in Vietnam or Afghanistan shouldn't be getting arfs because he's too lazy to figure out how his prosthetic will help him build? The guy paralyzed in a car crash is lazy because he doesn't park his wheelchair on a huge stand to build? And what about a five year old that's not mature enough to handle hazardous chemicals and hot, sharp tools? How is he lazy, because he didn't mature fast enough for your tastes? Or would you call his parents that have to work two jobs each because the economy is still in shambles just to keep them fed the lazy ones in this case?


The decline in RC aviation is as much due to people who think as you do, who think it's 'wrong' to not build a kit, people who insult those who choose ARFs, RTFs, and second-hand craft. Nevermind all the legitimate reasons one would do so, if they didn't build it from a box of sticks and some hastily scribbled doodles on a bar napkin they're not 'true RC pilots'. Right?

That attitude is doing far more damage to this hobby than the ARFs ever could. It's happening in the car section, too, people over there moan on endlessly about RTRs flooding the market and kits fading away, and they use the same exact annoying, tired, trite, rude arguments the kit > Arf crew use. Do kindly reconsider your mindset, you're only hurting the very thing you attempt to support.


With that, I remove my sub for this thread. Don't need my inbox flooded with more pointless rhetoric. Good day, sirs, and happy flying.

4ptroll

My Feedback: (35)

Because just like every other area of our "Modern Lives" we have become impatient with everything from Drive through service for our food and even pharmacy service to daily driving habbits.

We always want it NOW. Never want to stop and enjoy the finer side of life that something like kit building can bring. Simply put we as a people are impatient !

Ahhhh Yes. The good ole days. where have they gone

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

These "examples" that are given here are THE definition of pointless rhetoric...[you forgot to include the 1000s of one eyed Eskimos with aids, too]
Subtract these "examples" and you are left with millions upon millions of lazy guys who simply choose to spend their free time in front of a TV, video game or a computer instead of standing next to a work bench with their hands [and minds] busy cutting out parts, taking measurements and actually doing something constructive with their time.

Rob2160

I started in this hobby in 1977 as a 13 year old..

At that time there were two choices if you wanted an RC Plane... Futaba or Futaba...

Seriously.. though, two choices for obtaining a model, Build it yourself, or buy one from a fellow club member ready built..

I couldn't afford to buy one ready built so I had no choice..i had to build from scratch and plans.. My first planes would never have won any beauty contests and by today's standard may even be laughably rough in appearance, but they were solid and flew perfectly.. and I loved them for many years...

i think this hobby is many things to many people..i always envied those builders who enjoyed the building process and created truly beautiful and perfect aircraft.

I never had this talent nor desire..i just wanted to fly them.

For me, the new generation of ARF and PNP aircraft as perfect, having been in this hobby for 35 years, flying regularly, it has only been the last 3 years that I have owned scale WW2 aircraft (Thankis Parkzone) and a number of great EDF scale jets (Thanks Hobbyking)

To be honest, all my electric aircraft fly more powerfully than any glo plug aircraft I personally owned over the years.. LiPo, 2.4Ghz, Brushless motors have all revolutionised this hobby and have certainly re ignited my passion and interest... I have acquired 8 times more aircraft in the past 3 years than I did in the previous 32 years.. and the flying rate (Thanks to electrics) has gone up 5000%... I would average maybe 3-4 flights on a club Saturday, , IE 150 flights a year... Now I can do that in a week, easily.. with the Ultra micros, BNF aircraft etc..

There is no right or wrong,everyone will enjoy this hobby for different reasons, I still admire someone with the talen to build a nice looking plane from a kit or from scratch, but I love this hobby far more now than when I first started because I always hated the building process.

OliverJacob

My Feedback: (12)

Well, some people simply do not have the time, room or skills to build a plane. They are still good rc pilots and welcome
to fly at our field. The majority of planes are ARFs now and everybody has them.
And there are people being too lazy to build and come up with excuses.

In the winter time I am looking for a nice kit to build and it seems they are getting rare. A beginner would be better off buying an ARF since they are cheap and can be assembled easy and fast.
The question is - why are kits getting so expensive? The hike of balsa demand can't be the reason, the ARFs would be effected too.

The selection is getting thinner, too. At least in the 'lower' price level. Last plane I build was an 'Elder', which was about $200 with all the materials.
I can buy an ARF that size for half the price, but I had fun building it.

So I guess this won't change until the Chinese figure out how to put a kit in a box...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Quite a lot goes into getting a plane ready for market as a kit. Since there is less demand the only way to make this venture 1/2 way worthwhile is to charge a steep price. The "El Cheapo" route has already proven to fail as far as mass marketed kits are concerned...so you might as well charge a high price for the select few customers who are still eager to find a kit to build.

sensei

Please don't judge all builder's/true model hobby enthusiests by the delusional ramblings of a few want to be hack builders.

Bob

warbird addict

I don't know about LAZY being the reason some of us don't build , I left for work at 530 am and didn't get home from work till about 10 minutes to 9pm at which point i have to cook my own supper do my own dishes wash my own laundry and clean my own damned house and thats usually monday thru friday and on the weekends I'm on the hook to leave the house at a moments notice wherein I have to drive 40 miles one way to do a service call which could take an hour or all day, the last arf I put together took me nearly 8 months to get it done and it took effort to force myself to take the time to finish it , anybody that wants to call me lazy because I choose not to build has an open invitation to come with me for a month and we'll see how much progress you make on your masterpiece in that month.
So for me it's arfs , if not for them flying would not be a reality for me, more power to the guys that have the time and inclination to build but it does not in anyway shape or form make everybody that does not LAZY.
I too started this hobby by having to build anything I wanted to fly but I had a hell of alot more time to do it back then and the truth of the matter is it was such a PITA and took so long to get it done so that you could actually go out and fly is the reason I got out of it for so long , What brought me back into the hobby is the introduction of quality ARFS and of course really good simulator software which got me back in the air fairly quickly had it not been for that I would have to have just opted out.
EVERYBODY has their own reasons for choosing whatever path they pursue THEIR hobby and are ALL equally passionate about their chosen path, the satisfaction one gets is purely due to whatever that path fulfills for them personally, this is a very diverse hobby on a million different levels and maybe with so many different levels it's hard for some to be an elitist which may be where this constant argument over "WHOS GOT BRAGGING RIGHTS" might be stemming from.
Hell I like anything that flys but I'll be damned if anybody is going to brow beat me or criticize me or call me lazy "not knowing a damned thing about me" for not spending a year and a half gluing a bunch of balsa together and sanding off everything that don't look like an airplane, sorry but thats just not my gig and I don't really feel like I owe anybody an appology or an explanation because of it.

DGUY

My Feedback: (9)

I have to agree with the warbird addict... I work overseas... would be at home if the dang economy was better and there were some jobs out their in my field. It takes me about a yr to get an ARF together. When I am at home on leave I have maybe 2 or 3 days I can fly... out of my 2 weeks that I get, that is if the weather is good. I have family I have to give time to and that is important to me. I have a sig kit on the building board but it is gonna be a while before I finish it for sure.. One day I will be retired if I live long enough to see it. and I will have time to build. That is why I have been buying kits when I run across one that I like. Lazy has got nothing to do with it for a lot of us.. TIME is the issue. Then there is the skill that is involved, some have it some don't. I have a couple of good friends that are superb builders.. they understand my situation and will fix a plane for me that I bust up from time to time.. for me it is most of the time..LOL They don't think I am Lazy just understand my limited time at home.. Lazy Not All Of Us. Some have to work for a living.
Derrick

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Things get easier with age!! Time wise anyway. One of my old students is an ARF guy, retired and in good health. For some reason he has no time at all? He can't say no to anyone either. He gets asked to set up golf tournaments, do wood working projects for other people, club officer, all kinds of things he *****es about but still does.
Took him near a year to assemble an Aeroworks YAK easy build ARF. He may get out to fly once a month when he is in this town. He is a heat bird and flies away every summer for 6 months. The man has no time to just goof? When he does go out to the field he spends more time talking with everyone then he ever will flying. He may get in one, maybe two flights on any given day? I'm OK with this but I no longer put up with his wining about not ever getting any better with this flying stuff. If he would just get to the field and put his planes together and fly instead of walking the line and talking for two or three hours he would be a much better pilot.
Our last big kit score he kept a couple nice ones for himself, they will never get built or opened. He has spent almost two years just doing a minor repair on a little glider he got in the score. The man really doesn't have any time but he is constantly doing something and he does everything better then most people could. He would be a great builder in the sense what ever he does is perfect. Not an ounce of lazy in his soul.

Rob2160

What about REAL Professional Pilots?

Do they have to build their own aircraft?

NO... so why should RC Pilots ??

If you also enjoy the building process, more power to you.. but Many of us DONOT, we want to be RC pilots, not builders...

This attitude is the silliest and most outdated notion in the RC world,

Is a 747 Captain "Lazy" because he didn't build the aircraft himself... geezus.. grow up..

I buillt RC aircraft 30 yearsagowhen there was no other option.. now God Bless Parkzone, / Eflite and Hobbyking, !!!

Rob2160

+10

An excellent example and life is full of them...

A professional Footballer does not stitch his own football
A Professional Golfer does not forge his own clubs or make his own balls
A Fighter Pilot does not make his own aircraft
A water skier does not build his own boat or skis
A professional Hunter does not forge and mould his own guns.

I admire those who can build beautiful RC aircraft from scratch or a kit.. If you enjoy it.. more power to you..

But those who say you MUST build your own aircraft to be a REAL RC Pilot just displayoutdated and myopic bigotry.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

It boils down to the modeler or the flyier. Most just want to fly, but a few like the process of creation. And that is the modeler, who can work from a blank sheet of paper, or plan, or kit. The modeler is a problem solver. That is why they are not too impressed by the ARF mentality.

I don't think that lazy people are the problem. Almost everything responds to the path of least resistance, and the assembly of the ARF has kind of given way to Bind and Fly. Why bother installing $10 throw-a-way servos and receivers when you can just charge up a battery, bind it and fly? People are silly spending 5 or 6 HOURS installing gear, engine and tank just to have an airplane just like the other 1000 people that bought the exact same thing last month.

No, the problem is self-discipline. You will have to consider the implications of what this means.

Stickbuilder

One thing you missed. They are in it for the Job aspect, we are not. The keyword was, "Professional".
As to not having time, when did they issue anyone less than 24 hours per day (or more)?
Guys, I guess I should have used a different word, but when you won't build something just because you want it right now, or won't develop the skills necessary to build something, what else do you call it? Flying is the sport part of this, building is the hobby part. Yep, I've always built, either from a commercial kit, or plans or even scratchbuilding my own design. I do it because I can, why don't you?

Using the cost of building vs ARF is not a good example either. Since when do you put a price tag on what you love to do?
We've already established that you and I both have the same allotment of time per day, and before you start, We had 5 kids too, and they were all involved in extracurricular activities, so that one won't wash.
Space might be an argument, but you can always use a portable board to build on.
Just don't want to is one of the few honest answers here.
Don't know how won't fly either. You can find how anywhere on this site.
Rather do something else with my time, fine that's honest too.
Don't be so quick to whip out the tar and feathers. I made that post to stir things up. Told you that from the beginning.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Rob2160

Ok, fair point, but easily addressed..

How many weekend golfers make their own clubs?
How many recreational privatepilots build their own aircraft?
How many recreational tennis players string their own racquets?
How many Hobby waterskiers make their own boats?
How many casual joggers make their own running shoes?
How many weekend campers sew their own tents?

Don't get me wrong..I completely admire and respect someone who can create a beautiful plane from scratch.. I wish I could... but the effort required exceeds my interest level...

I am happy that some people have great satisfaction from building and more power to them.. but don't get on a high horse about it and act condescendingly to those of us who are only interested in the Piloting aspect of this hobby..

I always remember as a teenager at my club.. there was a well respected member of our club who did not attend for 6 months as he was busy every weekend creating a beautiful high speed and high powered pattern aircraft.

it was truly jaw droppingly spectacular and we were all in AWE of it when he turned up at the club...

I remember him saying it took him over 600 hours of building and close to $1500 in cost for motor / servos, retracts etc...

It flew perfectly for about 25 seconds until he wrong thumbed it at full power into the ground on the first flight..

The common opinion at the club for weeks was that he should have spent more time flying and less time building...

I was 16 and could never build a plane like that.. but if I had been flying it that day it would not have crashed...

Stickbuilder

But you missed the most important thing. He did it himself. It was his to dumb thumb into the ground. Don't whip out your challenge glove just yet. There are some of us who build well and fly just as well as we build. Getting old does not mean forgotten how.

Quite a few build their own cars, airplanes, boats, guitars, and even golf clubs. I'm sure that others build the things that they enjoy too.

When I decided to finally build the Byron Originals Ryan ST-A, I took one look at the kit and decided then and there that the wings were junk. Molded foam and not much structure.


For years the Waco YMF models not only had the Center of Balance (gravity) in the wrong location, but the Horizontal stab incidence was wrong. It requires doing some cutting on the ARF versions (pre-Great Planes) and on the kit versions to correct, but because someone can build, means this can be corrected.

Yes, ARF models have their place, but when you enter a top flight event and have to sign a Builder of the Model sheet, where does that leave you? Maybe you have no interest in competition, but what if you do?

Everyone should learn to build a model airplane. If nothing else, you will learn self discipline and that's something that is severely lacking in today's society.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Rob2160

It would be good for self discipline if we built our own radios, transmitters and receivers also? have you tried that?

I would not even attempt to compete with a competant buildier in creating a nice looking aircraft.. mine would fly awesome and look like "Crap" ... and also yes, i have never been interested in compeition.... But that is not right or wrong.. just my opinion and I understand some people love comparing themselves against others..

I just love the connection between plane and fingers (or mind, because I am never really conscious of what the fingers are doing.)

Anyway, its a great hobby and lets all enjoy it how we want to and not judge others for having different interests or priorities in this hobby to ourselves..

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

JohnBuckner hit the nail on the head. Good for you, John.

CGr.

sensei

He may now tell you about how he built a Heathkit radio and receiver, big deal allot of us did that back in the day. Thank god those days are gone. Hey there Kit Builder, did you build this composite fuse? If you ask me, you might be getting a little LAZY because that fuse looks like it was ARF built for you...

Bob

bikerbc

I feel very fortunate that I have been able to build as much as I have ..I am getting older and several health related things are creeping up on me and eating away at my ability to build..I may not even be able to fly that much longer..I dont like to be looked at as lazy but rite now I am sorta happy that there are some nice ARF's around to make it easier because I know if I need to I can always resort to putting one of them together to keep myself in the air as long as possible...