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More gub'mint stuff!

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Old 09-29-2011, 01:35 PM
  #1  
Kmot
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Default More gub'mint stuff!

Yeesh!

I sent my letter already.


Urgent Notice - Your Immediate Action Is Needed
Send Your E-Mail By October 10
Help preserve your rights regarding hobby materials

Dear Tower Hobbies Customer,

Many people are concerned with new government regulations that are designed to limit our hobby industry. You've probably heard about the new FAA regulations limiting our use of R/C airplanes and proposed shipping bans for R/C batteries.

New regulations are being considered regarding model rocket motors. This may not immediately impact your particular hobby but it's just another step toward regulation of materials used in hobbies and deserves your attention.

The US Department of Transportation (DOT) has recently advised that they propose to terminate a special permit under which model rocket motors and igniters have been shipped for the last 33 years. If the permit is terminated model rocket motors and igniters will no longer be able to be shipped as "Flammable Solids" and will instead have to be shipped as "Explosives."

In 33 years there have been no incidents involved in the shipping and transporting of model rocket motors and igniters.

Hobbyists need your support. Attached is a sample e-mail that we request you send immediately to express your support.

We believe that shipping model rocket motors and igniters as "Explosives" would only cause unnecessary concern for hobby shops, educators, youth group leaders and families using model rockets for educational and recreational purposes.

If you believe as we do, please send an e-mail to the Department of Transportation no later than October 10, 2011.

To assist you, here is a sample e-mail:

TO: specialpermits@dot.gov
Subject: DOT-SP 7887 Show Cause Response

Dear Associate Administrator,

The purpose of this e-mail is to request that DOT-SP 7887 be kept in force as written. The Special Permit, previously DOT-E 7887 has been in place since 1978 and is used by many of us who enjoy hobbies including model rockets, motors and igniters.

To my knowledge, there has never been an incident involving the shipping and transporting of model rocket motors and igniters. Further I believe that shipping these products as "Explosives" will create unnecessary fear and difficulty for those handling, transporting, receiving, storing, selling and using these products.

After 33 years of use, the termination of the Special Permit is unwarranted and possibly damaging to an educational and recreational product that has an excellent record. In closing, I again request the Special Permit be kept in place as written.

- Your Name and Address
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Old 09-29-2011, 04:34 PM
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vicman
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!

Yep, getting ready to send a reply.
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Old 09-30-2011, 04:31 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!

I sent mine.

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Old 09-30-2011, 06:05 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!

Sent. I had to restrain myself from adding to it. I didnt want to sound like a hysterical mental case.
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:55 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!


ORIGINAL: Kmot

Many people are concerned with new government regulations that are designed to limit our hobby industry. You've probably heard about the new FAA regulations limiting our use of R/C airplanes and proposed shipping bans for R/C batteries.
Shipping Lithium batteries by air? If one was to short and catch fire, say due to improper packaging, the fire extinguishing systems will not put it out (the battery fire), because it needs no external oxygen supply to burn. You need a class D fire extinguisher to put out a Lithium battery fire (combustible metals).

I know I wouldn't want to be on an airplane with a shipment of Lithium batteries.

I also take issue with the statement that these regulations "are designed to limit our hobby industry", virtually every other self oxidizing material has been banned from air travel for many years, but Lithium batteries somehow deserve a pass?

Sounds like they took a lesson from our politicians and crafted a statement that is designed to produce an emotional response in the reader.





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Old 10-01-2011, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!

HunkaJunk: Nowhere in the letter does it mention shipping by air. LiPo batteries are already banned from shipping by air I thought. I think the letter is meaning to say even ground shipment will be changed and these items will be classified as "explosives".
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!


ORIGINAL: Kmot

HunkaJunk: Nowhere in the letter does it mention shipping by air. LiPo batteries are already banned from shipping by air I thought. I think the letter is meaning to say even ground shipment will be changed and these items will be classified as "explosives".
OK point taken, but again, virtually all other self oxidizing materials have special ground shipping requirements, HAZMAT rules apply to all of them. So why should Lithium batteries be exempted? "Explosives" as far as the DOT is concerned is a very loose term, gunpowder, primers, and loaded ammunition are just a few that come to mind. (even though none of these are technically explosives)

I am unaware of any attempt to "ban" Lithium batteries from ground shipment, but reclassifying them as explosives puts them in the same catagory as the above mentioned items, and therefore must be packaged by someone who is properly trained, and will likely add some cost to the end user, as the shipping charges will be more.

Another reason I take issue with the Tower Hobbies statement, is that these regulations would not be specific to LiPo "hobby batteries". Li-ion batteries (laptop batteries) are known more for exploding if the output is shorted than any other type of Lithium that I know of.

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Old 10-01-2011, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!


ORIGINAL: HunkaJunk


ORIGINAL: Kmot

Many people are concerned with new government regulations that are designed to limit our hobby industry. You've probably heard about the new FAA regulations limiting our use of R/C airplanes and proposed shipping bans for R/C batteries.
Shipping Lithium batteries by air? If one was to short and catch fire, say due to improper packaging, the fire extinguishing systems will not put it out (the battery fire), because it needs no external oxygen supply to burn. You need a class D fire extinguisher to put out a Lithium battery fire (combustible metals).

I know I wouldn't want to be on an airplane with a shipment of Lithium batteries.

I also take issue with the statement that these regulations ''are designed to limit our hobby industry'', virtually every other self oxidizing material has been banned from air travel for many years, but Lithium batteries somehow deserve a pass?

Sounds like they took a lesson from our politicians and crafted a statement that is designed to produce an emotional response in the reader.





I agree with you 100%. There are other ways (like boats) to ship lithium batteries, it takes longer but you can pack an awful lot of them on a single ship. There are also manufacturers here in the US.
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!

Don't get me wrong, I hate the government at all levels.  But I find it difficult to put my name on an argument and send it to Washington when I can't follow the logic in my own mind.

The model rocket engine thing is a perfect example,  Fireworks and ammunition are considered "explosives" by the DOT, but model rocket engines are not?

This can also be partly blamed on the model rocket industry IMO , now you can buy re usable rocket engines that you refill with the propellant, does this propellant not have the same mass explosion hazard as smokeless gun powder? (also a propellant)

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Old 10-01-2011, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: More gub'mint stuff!

Bottom line:

it's just another step toward regulation of materials used in hobbies and deserves your attention.
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