Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
11-18-2011, 02:26 AM
#76
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
The R/C radios of today are amazing for the limitations placed on them. We have a very low wattage cap and the frequency hopping being used today is amazing in that the timing is set by the Tx and using no outside reference other than the Tx signal, the Rx is able to maintain synch and therefore binding. To get better reliability the military systems use additional means of timing not dependent on that radios signal, but this increases size, complexity and cost far outside the average hobbyists range. The military also has the benefit of much higher power output and satellites. We are also flying in a vastly more dense RF environment with signals multitudes stronger than our signals, on our frequency's, and still our radios perform extremely well. New servo and Rx designs require more voltage and capacity yet I still see people trying to use old school 4.8 volt batteries with new systems. Computer programming is driven mostly by competition pilots and therefore if it is not allowed then most likely it will not be added as a feature. Yes I agree that setting up a program to use your computer to customize your radio for your needs is well within the abilities of today's technology, but it is just not cost effective due to perceived lack of demand. On that last point that is our fault for not letting those that make the product aware of our desires. Instead of complaining start a campaign to get the features you would like to see added to the radios. Engines have improved greatly. The average .46 sized engines of today are more powerful than my circa '87 K&B .61 (the powerful one.) As far as comparing that to improvements in cars, well my old '88 Nissan Sentra got 40 MPG with 180,000 miles on it and new hybrids are barely getting that for double the price (inflation adjusted.) Electrics in the late 80's could barely maintain altitude after the first 2 minutes and had to be absurdly light to do it. To convert a glow to electric required major redesign to lighten the plane enough to fly yet still be strong enough to survive. Now to convert a glow plane to electric you just have to find a way to mount the motor and fit the batteries. I think our hobby has done very well with the limited demand compared to other products.
11-18-2011, 03:38 AM
#77
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
Want to know what got me thinking about this topic?
I picked up some old magazines someone dropped off at the field... glass half full or glass half empty? I just did not see that much progress.
I picked up some old magazines someone dropped off at the field... glass half full or glass half empty? I just did not see that much progress.
11-18-2011, 03:45 AM
#78
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
ORIGINAL: Steve Landron
I have radios that are 20 years old, that’s just the way I am, I find what works and stick with it. I guess you can blame me for the slooow progress of RC technology. Sorry…
I have radios that are 20 years old, that’s just the way I am, I find what works and stick with it. I guess you can blame me for the slooow progress of RC technology. Sorry…
So You'er the One! [:@]
Whew I thought it was me.
Thanks............
11-18-2011, 05:38 AM
#80
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
It's all a matter of perspective. Look a general aviation, come on, where's my jet pack? With all the advances you are speaking of this should be a cake walk, yet there are no practical jet packs. They say necessity is the mother of invention, but it is demand that drives invention now. Well money really, but without demand there is no money.
11-18-2011, 06:17 AM
#81
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
cfircav8r brings up arguably the best explanation as to why we haven't seen more advancement- need. For me, I'm actually quite happy with what we have now. Going back 20 years and looking at the equipment then, I would have wanted interference free systems, computerized radios that let me fine tune my throws and do mixes, practical electric power, quality ARFS, more powerful glow engines, lighter gas engines, and maybe lighter weight performance airframes that look better. We pretty much have all of that now. The market has driven the development of product, and at this point I would be happy with simply having the same features we have now with better durability or a lower price 20 years down the road from now.
11-18-2011, 06:30 AM
#82
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
ORIGINAL: on_your_six
Good idea... I donate 4 or more hours each week to the American Red Cross... what do you do?
Want to reload and take another cheap shot at me?
Good idea... I donate 4 or more hours each week to the American Red Cross... what do you do?
Want to reload and take another cheap shot at me?
ORIGINAL: F4u5
Astrohog nails it. People sit and complain about everything. Instead of complaining, take the stance of ''what can I do to help....''
It seems a mass of people just want to sit and be taken care of, and complain about everything going on around them, yet do nothing to help. This time of year, volunteer to ring a bell for the Salvation Army, you'll feel better about yourself.
Jeff
Astrohog nails it. People sit and complain about everything. Instead of complaining, take the stance of ''what can I do to help....''
It seems a mass of people just want to sit and be taken care of, and complain about everything going on around them, yet do nothing to help. This time of year, volunteer to ring a bell for the Salvation Army, you'll feel better about yourself.
Jeff
Don't take it personal man, my comment was in response to the apparent societal need to just sit and complain vs. taking some action.
Besides, if you wanna start a troll thread, then expect it....someone started a thread, that I thought was interesting from the standpoint of taking me (us) back to our start (at least for me) of our RC career. You wanna come in and blast another guys thoughts. Bottom line is nobody asked for your opinion on his thread, so keep it to yourself. You could have easily started this thread without reference to the nostalgic thread = trolling. Nuff said, I'm outta here. PM me if interested.
Jeff
11-18-2011, 06:47 AM
#84
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
20 some years ago I "created" my first electric. Olympic II with a can motor and 6 nicads. My last electric, a Giant Stick conversion I made a couple of weeks ago has a 3HP $47.00 motor, under $100 controller and a $85.00 battery pack (8 cells)... Another of the segments that is growing really fast is turbines, and heck even turboprops!
Gerry
Gerry
11-18-2011, 06:58 AM
#85
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
ORIGINAL: on_your_six
Are you really happy when your radio suddenly looses the radio link to the plane and there goes $2,000 worth of gear?
It is 2011, we should be able to have solidly dependable radio links to the planes.
I have worked in another industry (software) and have seen all the advances...
You want a plane to beep at you when you loose it, "buy this". Everything is an addon extra. Have the engines really improved all that much? If other products were sold in such a piece-meal manner people would scream... you guys continue to settle for the same same.
Maybe this is part of the reason kids are not entering the hobby.
You don't have to get mad to discuss this... it is a point of view. I don't care if you disagree, that's fine. Calling me names does not change things... I am not trying to make anyone mad, just think about it.
Are you really happy when your radio suddenly looses the radio link to the plane and there goes $2,000 worth of gear?
It is 2011, we should be able to have solidly dependable radio links to the planes.
I have worked in another industry (software) and have seen all the advances...
You want a plane to beep at you when you loose it, "buy this". Everything is an addon extra. Have the engines really improved all that much? If other products were sold in such a piece-meal manner people would scream... you guys continue to settle for the same same.
Maybe this is part of the reason kids are not entering the hobby.
You don't have to get mad to discuss this... it is a point of view. I don't care if you disagree, that's fine. Calling me names does not change things... I am not trying to make anyone mad, just think about it.
than 6 Planes go in for no reason at all in the past 2 weeks
2. Did U ever buy a car ... this add on that add on then the finance guy gets ya and he wants to add undercoat and payment insurance.
3. Kids are not entering this hobby because
A. Old gezzers don't mentor as much as they used too.
B. Parents haven't got the time
C. Kids are too busy with school, soccer, and other activites.
D. They can't learn it in 5 minutes like a video game.
E. Expence ... U have to admit this is not a cheep hobby and
ya don't just REBOOT the computer after a crash.
4.Nobuddy's mad or angery, some just respectivly agree to disagree.
Just one O'L Gezzers Opinion ... and U know what Opinions are worth.
With an opinion and 65 cents ya get a Seinor Decaff at Micky's D's
11-18-2011, 07:01 AM
#86
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
ORIGINAL: MajorTomski
Let's see, 25 years ago, let's call it 1985.
There were NO computerized radios in 1985
There were NO turbine engine in 1985
Four stroke engines had just been introduced and really did only produce half the power of the same sized two stroke.
You could buy a kit fix pitch helicopter with a gyro that actually had a spinning mass gyro in it, and if you were really good you could get it to hover for all of a minute.
You had maybe 3 different sizes of servos to choose from
A .60 was just abut the biggest engine you could buy
There were NO chainsaw based gas engines
Cox Sanwa was the only company making foam & electric airplanes and they BROKE when they crashed. Heck I even had a cox Cessna that the firewall flew off in flight.
That electric plane had a HUGE cheap can brushed motor and enormus sub-C sized nicads and flew for a whole 4 minutes.
And the six channel ''fancy'' Kraft radio cost $250. If we allow for inflation you would now pay 499.75 for that same non computer radio.
Given the INCREDIBLY SMALL sales base of even world wide RC buyers I think the advances in the last 25 years, especially cost per unit have been amazing!
ORIGINAL: on_your_six
WHY SUCH SLOW PROGRESS IN RC?
WHY SUCH SLOW PROGRESS IN RC?
There were NO computerized radios in 1985
There were NO turbine engine in 1985
Four stroke engines had just been introduced and really did only produce half the power of the same sized two stroke.
You could buy a kit fix pitch helicopter with a gyro that actually had a spinning mass gyro in it, and if you were really good you could get it to hover for all of a minute.
You had maybe 3 different sizes of servos to choose from
A .60 was just abut the biggest engine you could buy
There were NO chainsaw based gas engines
Cox Sanwa was the only company making foam & electric airplanes and they BROKE when they crashed. Heck I even had a cox Cessna that the firewall flew off in flight.
That electric plane had a HUGE cheap can brushed motor and enormus sub-C sized nicads and flew for a whole 4 minutes.
And the six channel ''fancy'' Kraft radio cost $250. If we allow for inflation you would now pay 499.75 for that same non computer radio.
Given the INCREDIBLY SMALL sales base of even world wide RC buyers I think the advances in the last 25 years, especially cost per unit have been amazing!
11-18-2011, 07:35 AM
#88
My Feedback: (101)
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
some guys are truelly amazing. I am so surprised that my little thread evokes this kind of negative emotional response but what is done is done. All I have to say is part of the thrill of this hobby is the risk and challenges involved. Why would you want a radio that does all the flying for you. a push button society and a push button hobby.....instant gratification, I am going back to my thread..........
11-18-2011, 08:43 AM
#89
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
Meh, less complexity might be nice.
Years ago Kraft had linear servos, yet that notion seems to have gone away even though it had obvious advantages for control geometry. Half the reason people crank in expo is to essentially mitigate the non-linearity of the the arm arc in a typical servo.
Years ago Kraft had linear servos, yet that notion seems to have gone away even though it had obvious advantages for control geometry. Half the reason people crank in expo is to essentially mitigate the non-linearity of the the arm arc in a typical servo.
11-18-2011, 09:04 AM
#90
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
If radios never went beyond a reliable 6 channel I could deal with it !
I just wish all motors were ME proof !!! hahahah, I have a great skill at de-tuning anything
I just wish all motors were ME proof !!! hahahah, I have a great skill at de-tuning anything
11-18-2011, 09:41 AM
#91
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
Gee, Roger, all of this is presently available in RC - IF YOU CAN PAY FOR IT. And that is what the hidden gripe probably is. You have people in these forums, especially the "scale" and "jet" forums, who pay roughly $10,000 for a plane and then complain about the cost of a toy pilot. Six, in fact, talked about someone (later saying it wasn't him) who lost a $2000 plane.
So if you really want all that capability call AeroVironment, Inc and talk to them about this: http://www.avinc.com/nanoor one of their other "RC" aircraft.
So if you really want all that capability call AeroVironment, Inc and talk to them about this: http://www.avinc.com/nanoor one of their other "RC" aircraft.
ORIGINAL: RogerParrett
I tend to side with 'six on this one... When I left R/C in '91 (work/family/you know the drill), my radio was a Futaba Super 7. Getting back into R/C in 2007, I found most radios still had the same functionality, maybe a few more mixes. Though 2.4 was coming on the scene, that was "just" the transmission medium. I suppose you don't need that much functionality to fly fixed-wing aircraft.
Things that I figured *would* be mainstream by now:
1) Software updates via downloads - OK, some have this feature now, should have been standard since the late 90's.
2) Ability to pre-program and sequence manuevers - yep, illegal to use during contests, but still...
3) Ability to set up your radio on your PC, simulate the setup, and download it to your transmitter.
4) Ability to have redundancy in RXs. Put three or more RXs in your plane, connect them together, set one as the master (or have a separate "voting" module), and if the link is lost on one RX, the others would take over.
5) RX capability built into servos - which could in effect provide a level of redundancy.
None of the above is technically difficult (speaking as an electrical engineer)... that's why I'm surprised that the above is either not available, or at least not widely available.
And to answer the obvious question "Why don't I do it...?", the answer is simple. I'm content with my sailplanes and Futaba 12FG. And if that answer resonates with most other modelers, I guess we've answered 'six's question.
r/s... Roger Parrett / Dayton / OH
I tend to side with 'six on this one... When I left R/C in '91 (work/family/you know the drill), my radio was a Futaba Super 7. Getting back into R/C in 2007, I found most radios still had the same functionality, maybe a few more mixes. Though 2.4 was coming on the scene, that was "just" the transmission medium. I suppose you don't need that much functionality to fly fixed-wing aircraft.
Things that I figured *would* be mainstream by now:
1) Software updates via downloads - OK, some have this feature now, should have been standard since the late 90's.
2) Ability to pre-program and sequence manuevers - yep, illegal to use during contests, but still...
3) Ability to set up your radio on your PC, simulate the setup, and download it to your transmitter.
4) Ability to have redundancy in RXs. Put three or more RXs in your plane, connect them together, set one as the master (or have a separate "voting" module), and if the link is lost on one RX, the others would take over.
5) RX capability built into servos - which could in effect provide a level of redundancy.
None of the above is technically difficult (speaking as an electrical engineer)... that's why I'm surprised that the above is either not available, or at least not widely available.
And to answer the obvious question "Why don't I do it...?", the answer is simple. I'm content with my sailplanes and Futaba 12FG. And if that answer resonates with most other modelers, I guess we've answered 'six's question.
r/s... Roger Parrett / Dayton / OH
11-18-2011, 09:42 AM
#92
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
Im happy I never thought I see the day when the ARF's were better models than could build... and than their is the Turbine... Problems is What is the next frontier?
11-18-2011, 10:31 AM
#93
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
I just want a push button plane where all I have to do is push a button and it fly's itself. It will do Cuban 8's, Snap Rolls, Hammerheads, and all kinds of loops while I just stand there and watch. That will bring lots of people into the RC hobby except it would no longer be a hobby. But the technology is out there to do that.
Is that what you really want?
Is that what you really want?
11-18-2011, 12:21 PM
#94
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
I see incredible and continuing advancements in the RC Heli world. None of it is cheap, and the new stuff gets quickly embraced by the community, such as flybarless systems. Lowest cost is not the driving factor.
11-18-2011, 12:26 PM
#95
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
ORIGINAL: topspin
I just want a push button plane where all I have to do is push a button and it fly's itself. It will do Cuban 8's, Snap Rolls, Hammerheads, and all kinds of loops while I just stand there and watch. That will bring lots of people into the RC hobby except it would no longer be a hobby. But the technology is out there to do that.
Is that what you really want?
I just want a push button plane where all I have to do is push a button and it fly's itself. It will do Cuban 8's, Snap Rolls, Hammerheads, and all kinds of loops while I just stand there and watch. That will bring lots of people into the RC hobby except it would no longer be a hobby. But the technology is out there to do that.
Is that what you really want?
a) Go to the field
b) See people fly
c) Go home (nothing to carry, clean, fuel or charge)
Gerry
11-18-2011, 12:39 PM
#96
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
[/quote]
You can do that any day of the week. It is called being a spectator... No need of equipment of any sort.
a) Go to the field
b) See people fly
c) Go home (nothing to carry, clean, fuel or charge)
Gerry
[/quote]
A)Log on to youtube.
B) See people Crash.
c) Log off.
11-18-2011, 04:33 PM
#97
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
ORIGINAL: topspin
I just want a push button plane where all I have to do is push a button and it fly's itself.
I just want a push button plane where all I have to do is push a button and it fly's itself.
11-18-2011, 04:49 PM
#98
RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
I don't suppose that any of you have been here from the tone pulse days until today. No advancement? Maybe not so much in the last 20 years, but you should have been here for the first 20 or so.
Bill, AMA 4720
Bill, AMA 4720
11-18-2011, 05:01 PM
#99
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RE: Disappointed in RC Advancement Over Last 20 Years
I think the hobby has regressed. How many people know how to do what is suggested in Stickbuilser's signature line anymore?
jess
jess