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Has there ever?

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Old 04-27-2012, 09:25 PM
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Default Has there ever?

Has there ever been a review in a print and paper publication of a bad review of a product like an ARF,kit, radio, servo anything??? It seems like everything is always raving reviews I know there are sponsers to appease and what not, but if a rag would actually say what NOT to buy that would help a lot more I think. If someone has evidence of such a thing post it up I wana see lol.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:54 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

RC Report use to print honest reviews on products, but the hard copy magazine is no longer in business.

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Old 04-28-2012, 02:56 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

As you said there are only good reviews.

Places like RCU are where we get the real info on products.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:15 AM
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True. You won't see any site or magazine negatively rate a company who buys ad time. The company could be terrible along with their product but everything is sunshine lollipops and rainbows as far as reporting on them or their products.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:48 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

Most reviews list pluses and minuses, but the minuses are usually very minor issues. Every once in a while it's something more substantial.

The question really is,, did you ever buy something based on a Mag review and find an issue the writer of the article surely must have found also and covered up or failed to mention? I never have.

Notice you don't see many reviews of the knock off "No label" ARFs or knock off engine/radio gear in the mags,, just the top name brand stuff,,
It's easy to always have glowing reviews when all you review is the Top Quality Gear
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:46 AM
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ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

Most reviews list pluses and minuses, but the minuses are usually very minor issues. Every once in a while it's something more substantial.

The question really is,, did you ever buy something based on a Mag review and find an issue the writer of the article surely must have found also and covered up or failed to mention? I never have.

Notice you don't see many reviews of the knock off ''No label'' ARFs or knock off engine/radio gear in the mags,, just the top name brand stuff,,
It's easy to always have glowing reviews when all you review is the Top Quality Gear
Not all top guality gear are top quality. How many times have you heard modelers complaining about Hangar 9 warbirds having the firewalls falling off in flight. The top business names pay top dollars to the mags to never fairly report on a product. Just remember its ALWAYS, buyer beware, and dont always believe what you read. If all products were as great as the reviews say, there would be no such thing as a warranty.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:48 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

It's good business to live by the old rule "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." I am sure many reviews never make it to the mags just for that reason.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:49 AM
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I hate to sound cynical , BUT , I take every single review from a paid reviewer in the same light as I take those absurd 1/2 hour "Infomercials" ya see on TV , , , , , Namely , as an advertisement that will of course NEVER tell you about the potential shortcomings of the product being hawked ....... It isn't just in the model airplane world , it's everywhere . Even if the only payment was the merchandise itself being tested , the "reviewer" is NEVER gonna risk their NEXT freebie by giving an honest report of the shortcomings of the product !!!

Once you adopt the mentality that they're ALL glossing over the uglies of what they're "reviewing" , and doing so to insure their next freebie for "review" , it makes understanding these "reviews" just that much easier .
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

ORIGINAL: STUKA BARRY


ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me

Most reviews list pluses and minuses, but the minuses are usually very minor issues. Every once in a while it's something more substantial.

The question really is,, did you ever buy something based on a Mag review and find an issue the writer of the article surely must have found also and covered up or failed to mention? I never have.

Notice you don't see many reviews of the knock off ''No label'' ARFs or knock off engine/radio gear in the mags,, just the top name brand stuff,,
It's easy to always have glowing reviews when all you review is the Top Quality Gear
Not all top guality gear are top quality. How many times have you heard modelers complaining about Hangar 9 warbirds having the firewalls falling off in flight. The top business names pay top dollars to the mags to never fairly report on a product. Just remember its ALWAYS, buyer beware, and dont always believe what you read. If all products were as great as the reviews say, there would be no such thing as a warranty.
True, quality has been sliding, that is becoming more common these days, I don't think I'd buy an ARF again, especially how these guys run right out to be the first to own a new product,, not me

But, you're making a serous accusation,, How do you know they are being paid to cover up known flaws??

I remember sitting in Economics class in 7th grade, a long long time ago,, and we went over all the tricks, images and buzz words businesses use to lure you in and get you to buy,

You're right when saying it all comes down to one thing as a consumer,, "Buyer Beware"

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Old 04-29-2012, 07:30 AM
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I am not as cyncial about reviews as most of you are. I do know that with many magazines that if a reviewer does find major problems with a product, then the review is not printed and the maker of the product is notified why. Normally I will not buy any major product that I can not find at least one good review, either in a magazine or online. The one magazine where the reviews have become worthless with the last two issues is FlyRC. All they do now is comment on flying the plane, nothing about the quality of the kit or building/assembeling the model. The best reviews are in Flying Models, RCU, and the AMA's Model Aviation. Model Airplane News reviews I would give a C or D for completeness.

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Old 04-29-2012, 10:12 AM
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ORIGINAL: TomCrump

As you said there are only good reviews.

Places like RCU are where we get the real info on products.

Hi Tom ,

When you say "places like RCU are where we get the real info on products" , , , I presume your speaking of info presented by our fellow hobbyists , and not of the "official reviews" ?

Our fellow RCers , who have no vested financial interest in the info put fourth , are in my opinion the best source for accurate information . Any other info , especially when presented within the confines of a paid review , comes to me as highly suspect , for the reason stated in my other post to this thread .

Real "reviews" come from the people who aren't trying to advertise a particular product , and are just posting their experiences , both good AND bad , for the sole sake of letting their brother flyers know whats good and what to avoid . Everything else is just advertising , disguised as honest review .
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:30 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

Like what was mentioned in the first thread, magazines wouldn't survive long without the all-mighty advertising dollar coming in are our subscriptions aren't squat compared to all of their overhead. Dis a big advertiser and you lose money then the word gets out. In some rags you just have to read between the lines.
OK, boat guy that does a little flying. When RC Boat Modeler magazine was still alive I was amused at some of the reviews. You knew that the item in the article was junk and so did the writer but he still had to find something nice to say as difficult as it was.
It doesn't matter what it is that any magazine is promoting, they have to watch their wazoo's, if not they are out of business.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:53 AM
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ORIGINAL: fliers1

RC Report use to print honest reviews on products, but the hard copy magazine is no longer in business.

fliers1
True, they'd print honest reviews, from the perspective of an expert commenting on a product. About the worst comment I ever saw was "Can't recommend this for a beginner."

I recall leafing through a lengthy review on a new Futaba computer radio with all the subprograms for settings. (This is when computer radios were fairly new.) The review had no negative comments. I found the screens unclear, the manual confusing, and the settings difficult, even after reading the review. The review commented on how to get the job done, again with the perspective of a seasoned RC pilot.

The reviews were thorough and critical, but there was none of the dismissive tone you see here on posts.

I miss the print magazine.

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Old 04-30-2012, 11:11 AM
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One of my favorites is the RCM review of the 88" Pica Spitfire where the CofG was wrong on the plans. This error resulted in the the demise of the airframe on the second flight due to damage from the first. They treated it like it really wan't that big of a deal and built a second kit and flew it with the correct CofG.

http://www.rcmplans.com/issues/reque...-111991-1.html
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

A couple of comments about the reviews I have done. I know the staff of RCU pretty well and while I can't speak for them, I know the general consensus/feeling.

We aren't told what to write.

We aren't paid to do the articles. We do get to keep the products we review but as you can well imagine, the majority of articles if broken down by hour of work versus if we were to consider the full retail value of the item under review as payment, you'd quickly see we do the work because we thouroughly enjoy it. My review projects get sold to club members that really really want them, at half of retail, donated for event prizes in RCU's name, given away to folks that couldn't afford them, or occasionally kept (though I only have so much room in the garage right??).

We generally dont get to spend enough time with a project for things like vibration induced failures or poorly glued pieces to show up.

As for me personally, I wouldn't recommend something that I wouldn't spend my own hobby dollars on. I don't want someone buying something I recommended based on something I wrote, and feel they wasted their money because it didn't live up to what was claimed of it in my article.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:28 PM
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ORIGINAL: G8er

Has there ever been a review in a print and paper publication of a bad review of a product like an ARF,kit, radio, servo anything??? It seems like everything is always raving reviews I know there are sponsers to appease and what not, but if a rag would actually say what NOT to buy that would help a lot more I think. If someone has evidence of such a thing post it up I wana see lol.
HA+HA =HA HA! Model Airplane Reviews are just like the NEWS Media. All for hype. Any truth is purely coincidental. They exist for only one reason and that is for the mag to get the advertising. Being one of the first 100 subscribers to Gordon's RC Report a news-paper style originally, and dedicated to truth, well I watched him go down the primrose path just like all the rest. I use him because RC Report was supposed to be the HONEST one. That did not last long, no more than the same situation with the late and great RC Modeler (RCM) did.

Some background: Way back when there were no big discount houses, and honesty was respected, things were a tad different than now. Ads were mostly reputable businesses with mail-order departments and Manufacturing-Importers were really just showing their lines of models, engines and supplies.

A large kit-maker called Berkely (sp. ?) was putting out different items each month. Now at first not bad but as the RC business began to raise its head, they became less than good. In reality if any parts in a Berkely kit fit, it was simply by chance.

Berkely went under and was picked up by Fox, the engine maker. Keeping the old Berkely name was not a good market plan. Then SIG bought it from Fox. Sig was basically a balsa supplier and finishing and covering supplier still mostly in the Cl/FF Fields but moving into RC. Well, they just took the old plans and old dies to make a Piper Cub that Berkely had introduced just before selling to Fox.

Now comes RCM and does a big review for SIG with SIG providing full page ads. NEAT! Well RCM was HONEST and SIG was really BOOTED. Sig canceled their ads. Some time down the road, RCM came to SIG and posted a big WOW article in the mag. Sig then became a buzz word in the RC Kingdom, reinstated their ads and all was well throughout the ages. To hug and kiss has been the order of the day ever since. Now Reviews are all that a mag really does. There are different methods but all same.

Gordon, RC Report, gave FOX a bad review. Fox had a new Form-1 Pylon Racing engine out and it was STRONG but like a through-bred it was touchy. RCR's paid engine man gave a blistering review stating that it was not suitable for the beginner to use. What the devil would one expect from an engine developed strictly for the hard-core racing folks? Fox pulled advertising. Gordon couldn't understand Fox's position.

The next to last RCR had a raving review about some TWIN. It was so great but way down in a paragraph they did make a short statement that on the third flight both firewalls failed. YEP, a great design but any modeler should have been able to see that weakness well before finishing the model.

I can go on all night with these incidents. The mags are simply doing what the new un-learned inexperienced customers want. If they want Chili, then just open the can. It's that SIMPLE !!!! [:-]
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:03 AM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

Over the past 20 years, I've twice taken editors to task over their policy re "telling the truth". On both occasions, I phoned the editors; each of whom was associated with a leading UK magazine.

To their credit, each told me that, "the truth is sometimes incompatible with the acquisition of advertising revenue". Of course, I paraphrase.



The old rules still apply, "Caveat Emptor" and "a fool and his money are soon parted".
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Old 05-02-2012, 05:02 PM
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In 2010 I bought two airframes (ARF's) that received great reviews on another site with one or two minor nits. Turns out they were disasters and later user comments confirmed this. Even though I learned long ago to get the word on the street from places like RCU user feedback I was in a hurry and ignored my own advice.

There are a couple manufacturers who knowingly sell very poor quality models with known flaws, many are cheap copies of someone elses designs. One in particular manipulates everything, the video taped company reviews are always spectacular and any negative customer reviews on their website are removed. Eventually the RC community gets the word out on other venues but by then they have sold a bunch and moved on to the next piece of junk.

I have not trusted product reviews for about the last 5 years and I trust them less every year. Now I wait until the real modelers have had a chance to weigh in and give the real low down on performance. Then I'll buy if the word is good.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:58 PM
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There ya go, let some other poor fool buy the piece of junk first so he can blow his money instead of yours to find out the hard way!
I've seen this mentality where everyone has to be the first one on his block to get the latest, greatest whatever of the week then find out it's not all that and a bag of chips later on. A lot of times the ARF/RTF/RTR world isn't the best way but we're getting into a Plug & Play world as we want to fly, drive or float it NOW instead of blowing weekends in the shop putting a kit together and knowing that it was glued and bolted together the way it should be done.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:38 PM
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ORIGINAL: topspin

Now I wait until the real modelers have had a chance to weigh in and give the real low down on performance. Then I'll buy if the word is good.
Sooo, what happens when nobody buys it, or "reviews" it on forums, do you just not buy it, or do not go a LHS and inspect your self? If everyone was like you nothing would get done lol.


I honestly have never had a structural failure happen mid flight, or hanger rash from poor building quality from an ARF, and prob have flown/owned close to 12 of them. Granted all the flying and building was done about 10 years ago, and things do change so I can't really comment on how they are now(just assembled a tower razor 3d and waiting to maiden). But like someone who had posted some random thought somewhere in this forum, 95% of crashes are pilot error, and I can attest to that personally. Just because it's not a kit dose not make it any better or worse it just means you didn't build it. There is a certain satisfaction in building your own from a box of sticks and that's why I do it, but I am not going to blame companies for other peoples preferences.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:26 PM
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Default RE: Has there ever?

One thing I've noticed is that there can be major differences between batches of ARF models. The differences may or may not be obvious, until -
Things don't go together exactly like the instructions say they do.
There are fitting or interference problems, binding linkage, etc.
COG - - always look to see if it's reasonable, based upon the position behind the wing leading edge.
Check such things as epoxied joints (firewall, gear mounts, etc.)

Repeated flights can eventually crack things, and "stuff" subject to stress should be checked frequently.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:22 AM
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One comment i remember seeing (when mags were popular) was that a bad review was passed back to the supplier before being published. This gave the suppier a chance to 'fix' the issue(s) and resubmit for another review. This time, the review was [hopefully] more favorable.. So, the reviewer essencially became a 3rd party evaluator.. the kit/product gets a bit of a fix, and the review is glorious.

I too miss printed mags. I also miss mags on 'building' planes, not assmbling ARFs.. And planes in general, not the top 10 cookie cutter trendy 3D / Mustang / Wazoobee birds..

And $9.99 for a mag these days?! are you nuts!!
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:42 AM
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ORIGINAL: G8er


ORIGINAL: topspin

Now I wait until the real modelers have had a chance to weigh in and give the real low down on performance. Then I'll buy if the word is good.
Sooo, what happens when nobody buys it, or ''reviews'' it on forums, do you just not buy it, or do not go a LHS and inspect your self? If everyone was like you nothing would get done lol.

I honestly have never had a structural failure happen mid flight, or hanger rash from poor building quality from an ARF, and prob have flown/owned close to 12 of them. Granted all the flying and building was done about 10 years ago, and things do change so I can't really comment on how they are now(just assembled a tower razor 3d and waiting to maiden). But like someone who had posted some random thought somewhere in this forum, 95% of crashes are pilot error, and I can attest to that personally. Just because it's not a kit dose not make it any better or worse it just means you didn't build it. There is a certain satisfaction in building your own from a box of sticks and that's why I do it, but I am not going to blame companies for other peoples preferences.

Oh I build kits, I have built lots of kits over the years. There is no problem with a kit because I know where the weaknesses are and make sure they are not a problem.

I have had a couple of failures happen with Hobby King ARFs both structural failure and power system fires. I don't buy from them anymore but that is not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say is that I do a lot of research before I spend my money and if everyone was like me a whole lot more would get done. Since you don't know me I'll give you a break but I have had more than 30 ARF's and built at least 50 kits over the last 10 years. I have 20 operational planes right now and a few kits in the box. Nothing get done? I don't think so. Next time I'll consider that kind of response a personal attack.
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