countilaw

I was shopping at my LHS and I noticed this guy talking to one of the sales clerks, asking all kinds of questions about various R/C cars and trucks. I also noticed that the guy appeared to be texting on his cell while the clerk was answering questions about each of the vehicles. He was asking all the usual questions about warrantees, parts, durability and etc.

As I walked past the customer, I noticed he was shopping online comparing prices.

In my book this guy was one low life. It kind of reminded me of the guy that said that if it wasn't for Hobby King, he couldn't be in this hobby. (If it's between feeding your kids and being in this hobby, you need to recheck your priorities)

If you're going to buy from Hobby King, then buy from them. Don't waste the time of a LHS just shopping and wasting their time.

Frank

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

OK Frank.. I'll never do that again.

jester_s1

Some people just have no sense at all. When I worked in a gun shop I occasionally had customers want to fondle the merchandise so they could go online and get at $650 item for $20 cheaper after shipping and FFL fees. Every few weeks I'd get one who was open about it and wanted a free education from me. I'd go ahead and give it to him as long as there weren't other customers for me to deal with, because I figure he'll need a place to buy the accessories and incidentals. Accessories are where the real profit is anyway, so it was good anyway.I suspect hobby shops are the same- price vehicles with razor thin margins and pay the bills with tires, parts and fuel.

flyinwalenda

My Feedback: (5)

That wasn't very subtle ...looking it up while he was talking! You will have this with most any business. I don't like people who pump you for information and then go and buy or get the service from somewhere else.

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

This same sort of person will buy the item online and then try to return it to the hobby shop when it is the wrong size or when it doesn't work.

The internet breeds rude behavior in people.

carrellh

I agree that using the LHS, or any business, to ‘test drive’ items before buying online is wrong.

When my brother was looking for his first computer radio he had 3 or 4 models in mind. He went to Mike’s in Carrollton and they showed him all of the models and even walked him through basic setup such as dual aileron servos. He was on a tight budget and settled on a Hitec Flash 5X for I think 180. Tower was selling it for 150 but the info we got at the hobby shop was worth a lot more than the 30 dollar difference.

countilaw

He may have paid a little more for it, but look at the service he got and will get in the future. And he got to look at and feel the real thing before he bought it. AND he got a good warrantee. GOOD for your brother, sounds like a stand up guy.

Back before we had the internet we did have mail order shopping. The LHS carried most everything you needed, sure that's not quite true today. Sure we ordered airplane kits from Tower, Circus Circus, The Hobby Market, Hobby Lobby and other mail order shops. It was a known fact that the LHS profit margin on kits were only about 5%. We would order the kits that the LHS didn't carry from mail order and buy all the extra stuff from the LHS. The LHS had a much larger profit margin on all the accesories and we knew it.
Today, we wonder why our LHS doesn't carry everything we need . It's because most people order online most everything they want just to save a few dollars.

You can't really blame anyone for wanting to save a few dollars, but before long, when it comes to needing that one part immediately, you won't be able to get it, the LHS won't be there for you.

This reminds me of a situation where I was teaching this guy to build and fly a plane. He needed a red spinner. I recommended that we go down the hobby shop and get one. His reply was, " I can order one from tower right now and it will be here in time to fly this bad boy."
The Tower spinner cost him $5.29 plus $5.50 shipping and the LHS had it for $5.99 plus tax.

Go figure!

Frank

batdog

My Feedback: (1)

The local hobby shop vs online shopping is often talked about here. I think its no diffrent than any busines .the LHS needs to learn to compete. The days of sitting on the stool (as many do)waiting for the purchase are over. They can compete in many ways and capture the would be internet shopper by lowering their overhead thus bring their price down, be the expert at the shop and the field. ( stop hiring kids to run the busines) operating hrs can be extended, software to control the inventory to name a few. Every business has had to change as the consumer has more options . Purchases at theLHS just to help him stay in business as many have said they are doing, is no help to him at all as if he cannot learn to compete your purchase will not prop him up for long , as he is destined to fail. Those that have learned to be competive in the market place deserve your busines. Hobby King is just one example that have kept prices down and are generating quite a profit because of it.

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

The local hobby shop has every right to have an online store.. just like every other biz... and yes.. if the guy wants to compete and keep up.. he's got to "pay the price" for doing biz. Theres so many venues for people to own and operate... if the owner of the shop has problems with someone coming in and wanting info... there's the opportunity... now.. what's that owner going to do? He can hold out and "hope" for a sale... whereby making more profit.... or he can compete with others... and make less profit.. get more sales.. which just might get more gross income/sales.

I think eveyone has every right to spend thier money the way they want. I want my material and products as cheap as I can get them... I'm not into donating to hobby shops that don't want to keep up with the speed of business... Let them sit behind thier counter and wait for people to waste thier time.

If the hobby shop owners did as much research on current marketing trends... they would welcome those that want info... and educate them... Theres no reason any hobby shop can't offer items at street price... oh wait a minute... they have overhead.. yep.. its not my problem how they wish to deal with that... selling items at full retail doesn't seem to get it though anymore.

Any informed hobby shop would be competing with current pricing trends... as well as offer info and service... which is something alot of online companies don't do... so who really has the advantage.. and who really uses thier given advantage to thier benefit?

And yes... plenty of hobby shops do just that.. compete pricewise.. and offer a staff of hopefully competent clerks(thats a whole different story though..we know how that can go though don't we)...

Theres a shop in Sacramento called RC Country that is exactly what I'm talking about.. and its a large privately owned(no corporation that I know of) shop that has everything substantial priced right in line with current mail-order prices.. as well as a staff that is second to none I think.. guess where I spend alot of money every time I'm in that town?

I'm definately not into helping mom and pop because they want to sit around and wait for everyone to come to them.... Myself, and anyone that does thier homework(including hobby shop owners) can shop and find deals and not even spend any gas.. and have anything delivered right to thier door step... thing is ... a hobby shop has the advantage of selling for some kind of profit.. so.. again.. who really has the advantage?

Would someone feel the same if it were say.. a car they were buying? I mean... its only money.. why not just plop it down at the first place you come too.. you're supporting local business right? Thing is how are they supporting thier clients... by gouging everyone for another 40-50%? I don't think so. Maybe I'm strange..

countilaw

It's easy to see that you are a Hobby King advocate. Hobby King has the worst customer service record of any business I know of. It's not a bargain when 1 of 3 items arrive DOA, or smashed until it's unusable, or has missing parts that you will probably never get.

The LHS that I'm talking about has the same pricing as Tower , Horizon and most other BIG distributors. They can not compete with Hobby King and maintain the same customer service, warrantees and stock on hand. They also must pay their employees a competitive rate, unlike Hobby King that pays in the neighborhood of $14.00 a day or less. (If you don't believe that, check the going rate of income in Hong Kong)

How many times have I heard that an order was made from Hobby King and the web site said " In Stock" but at the time of filling the order it was "On BackOrder" and Hobby King held the entire order and the money until the item was "In Stock" 2 and 3 months later.
That doesn't happen at your LHS.

Frank

countilaw

How does this fit in with the topic of taking up a clerks time asking questions and wasting his time when he could be helping another customer, (me) while he's planning on buying the product from another source?

I don't know what you do for a living, but put yourself in the clerks shoes. Maybe it will be your job on the line one day.

This is a beautiful statement: I'm definately not into helping mom and pop because they want to sit around and wait for everyone to come to them....
It demostrates your knowledge of running a business. Did you forget about Taxes, S.S., Worker's Comp & Property tax. How about Goverment Regulations and Insurance. Did you forget about them. How about all the money they have tied up in inventory? Did you forget about that? How about Payroll for the people they put to work? Did you forget about that?

Do you think Hobby King worries about it's employees? Do you think Hobby King worries whether you're happy about your purchases?

I don't see hobby shops gouging anyone for another 40 to 50%. Like I said, this hobby shop's prices are in line with Tower, Horizon and other distributors.

It's a sad state of affairs when all we think about is "MY SELF"

Frank

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Consider returns: Most people that buy the wrong item from an online vendor or end up with a defective item will likely just keep it or throw it away rather than taking the time to send it back, especially if it isn't worth a great deal of money. But that very same person will expect the hobby shop to match the online price and if it is the wrong item or defective they will return it to the store.

A face to face sale is very different than an online sale, customer support expectations are higher with a face to face transaction but many expect to get this higher level of support at the no-support, no-return online price. Would you support a LHS If the shop sold items with the HK customer support model and they matched HK on price? I think not.

Many modelers are not satisfied with the shop matching the online price and receiving the free face to face customer support, they want the shop to eat the sales tax too. It's not a level playing field for the shop no matter how efficient they are.

Retail will never be able to compete with online merchants if price is the only consideration. Even Bet Buy is struggling with the retail store concept. It's hard to compete with free shipping, no tax, no returns and no support.

As much as I hate taxes, I don't think the game will be fair for ALL merchants until online merchants are compelled to collect sales tax.

DGrant

My Feedback: (4)

You're right... I forgot about everybody... and I know nothing about running a business... and even better.. I don't even know why I posted in this ridiculous thread.


The world is a tough place dude... and if you want to say I'm wasting a clerks time.. when he could be waiting on you.. I'm wondering where your judgement comes from... and who you are deem anything in anybody elses' biz a waste of time.. when in fact... its none of your business... none of it.

If you're not getting the service you need at that particular hobby shop... maybe they need some more help in there... but that would defeat the purpose of them making better profit then wouldn't it.

Tell you what... you spend your money any way you like... and if you don't get the service you believe you deserve, and by the tone in your posts.. service that you believe you're entitled too... You just come on back to the forum and lay that rant right out there.... it might be a good idea to keep in mind that not everybody will agree with you....

And yes... it is a beautiful statement that I don't and won't donate to mom and pops... as I can easily do for myself anything and more that they can do for me.... I read RCUniverse... tell me what mom and pop can tell me that I can't find on this website... tell me something that they can get for me that I can't easily get... right through this website... biggest problem here is me keeping my fingers off the keyboard when it comes to a thread like this... that is simply a waste of time... my choice though... just like standing in that hobby shop waiting to be helped... I think I'll start a thread on mindless ways of instigation.. I wonder how many would align with me... thing is, it doesn't matter... I really don't care. So.. go ahead and work really hard to muster up a response here if you like... you're wasting your time... bandwidth... electricity... wear and tear on your keyboard.... and it doesn't change a thing.... isn't that great.

pmerritt

My Feedback: (118)

Got to love these internet prohibitionists!   Especially the one from Grand Prairie that didn't say originally that the shopper was on ANY specific web site but all of a sudden it's HOBBY KING...the Grandiose Demon of all LHS'.  Can a physical US business successfully compete against a foreign company willing to sell below what their costs are.  Probably not.  The difference will fall in service, availibility, and a lot of luck. 

I own my business and face that challenge every week.  I also spend time on line to know what the conditions and costs are that I have to compete with. Bottom line, my customers learn very quick that if they buy on line they face having a warranty or repercussions if thier "cheaper" purchase goes sour. 

If a business owner isn't aware that he is competing with the internet, he's destined to fail.  He should have done his research regarding competition long before he signed that lease agreement.  Was the cusomer rude for being on line while shopping.  NO!  A good business owner would have politely told this customer his product might be a little more expensive but he would be there to help with any issues, back him on his warranty and inform him how great his repairs would be and how fast he could help. 

You win customers by service!  You can't buy service over the internet.  Service is a greeting at the door, a handshake, concerns for each customers needs and a dedication to the concerns of your customer.   

batdog

My Feedback: (1)

Its interesting that until the internet the American business man was buying from China marking up the price and selling to the consumer. Now that the consumer can buy direct from China is where the RUB has come. If for an example you think Hobby King is selling junk it is the same product that was being sold and we were buying. Why not enjoy this new avenue we have as a consumer for many products and stop the complaining.

Bill G

It's not that simple. In fact, it's incorrect, as the products are not exactly the "same thing", although they may come from the same country. There are reasons that you can get a better product from a US distributor who both pays more for the product, and sells it at a higher price.
When a large firm like Horizon buys from a Chinese factory, their purchasing power gives them pull. The company could be selling the same product to different places, but since Horizon has higher standards, along with paying more money, they will likely QC the product, where they do not QC the identical product sold to another purchaser, and are not paid more to do so. That in itself makes the products "NON IDENTICAL". This same principle applies to warranties. An identical product that is warrantied by one vendor, but not by another vendor, again is not identical anymore.

Saying "the same product" really requires proven examples of specific items. It's too easy of a universal claim to make, without knowing all the details. Often the small details are where the differences lie. For example, an "exact copy" requires that every part, down to the same micro chip is from the same supplier, along with having the same exact manufacturing procedures and quality control, such as final testing. One thing the discount distributors do that is good, is that they push higher priced competitors to sell superior products. When they do sell the "same thing" at a higher price, eventually people will decide to buy it from a lower priced seller, after they have both determined that it is the same thing, and that there are no advantages in buying from the higher priced seller. There are products I buy from discount vendors that are not even necessarily the same thing as higher priced competitors in terms of being copies, but the performance seems to be as good if not better. In those cases I'll buy from the discount seller. These comparisons take time and effort to realize however, and are on a case by case basis.



Good point. There are posts of people that have done that.
Another person brought up that the guy was comparing warranties. That is a really good reason to deal with an LHS. Technically, most warranties, if they even have or honor them, require that the goods be sent to the manufacturer. The LHS often does that for people, in efforts to provide good service. You won't get that from a mail order place, even with products that have decent warranties such as Horizon, Hitec, etc.

I have a good story along these lines, as the first thing I bought from my LHS was a Hitec car rc transmitter. It was dead out of box. I called the LHS, and he stated that it had to be sent to Hitec. I told him that I knew he had another on the shelf as I saw it, and that I was bringing it back in for exchange. After a bit of insisting that I do not install batteries in reverse, he agreed. You will doubtfully get that with your mail order place. The LHS ends up eating some of these returns, as I've seen people talk them into taking damaged goods as returns, claiming that they were defects. Anyway, after being told that I could return it, I then took apart the case, and voila, the factory had not soldered the positive battery wire in place. It was soldered, but apparently not to the battery compartment contact. I fixed the problem myself, and also had an LHS that now had added respect for me. Not a situation you would end up with, in a mail order purchase.

GerKonig

Well, in my book, as a small business owner, the guy was on his right to do so. For the business, it is an opportunity to sell your product, and also you customer service (not to mention warranty. If you can sell this to the customer, he will be back after he has a problem with a on-line purchase.

Having a customer n the store is, for the owner of the store, always an opportunity.

I would love to talk to ALL the people that buy from a competitor:-) As would any competitor... It is part of the price of doing business. Basic Business 101!

I can see this quickly developing into another idiotic HK versus your favorite vendor kind of thread...

My 2 cents

Gerry

topspin

That is just rude and stupid. First I agree that the components are not the same in almost all cases and the quality of the cheap internet stuff is suspect. I go to my LHS to buy stuff and I have spent far more at the LHS than I have on line. The reason is that I only buy big ticket items from my LHS, that way I know I have a real warranty and all the help and advice I need to make it work right down the street.

I can not imagine ever being so rude as to phone shop while talking to the guys at the store, that is just plain wrong.

init4fun

[8D] I just gave Bill G his first 5 star points rating for the post he just made . I truly couldn't have said it better , myself .....

flycatch

My Feedback: (26)

Bottom line is profit margin and the LHS. The days of the local business owner has come and gone but a few. Look around there absence is deafening.

rgburrill

Most hobby shops have (necessarily) expanded their product lines to bring in more diversified customers. They also, therefore, have reduced their stock to the more typical items purchased. One thing that really bugs me is when I ask for something they don't have and their response is "I can order it." I respond back "I can too, from Tower".

LHS owners, please don't tell me you can order it. Ask me if I would like you to order it. It maysound likethe same thing but basic sales training will tell you that asking questions gets a much different response.

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

I was happy to find out my LHS just doubled in size,,

He's a 99% a car guy and last few times I stopped in for small items like threaded wire and glue etc. I'd tell him, "ya know there are four flying club fields withing 10 miles of here, If you had more airplane stuff guys would get the word out and come in." So last week I made a special trip over there because someone told me he opened the new section. It was full of plastic models, the guy had added no airplane inventory of any kind.

You guys that are lucky to have a LHS that supports your hobby keep supporting them,, I'm done wasting gas money going to mine

ira d

I can understand why stores dont like to have money tied up in slow moving stock items but OTH having product that a person can see
and handle and purchase on the spot is what it will take for a hobby shop to be sucessful IMO.

pmerritt

My Feedback: (118)

The internet is hurting local business.  It is helping the consumer since we are saving money and in this day and time when a tank of gas costs us $100.00 and a gallon of milk is $4.00 and a box of cereal is $3.50.   Saving a few bucks by waiting a few weeks on parts is a blessing.  The "luxury / hobby" businesses are going to suffer some if not a lot by the ability of the consumer to cut out the "middle man". 
If I need it today for tomorrow, I'll buy from my LHS.  If I'm on a build and I can wait while saving $10.00 a servo, I'll save $60.00 and buy on line.

Times are changing.  Those retailers that aren't geared up to pricing against the internet had better not renew their leases.  There is NO crime to saving money on this rather expensive hobby.  It might come down to 90% of sales being on line in the next decade. 
 
What gets me is the price fixing that companies like Spektrum (and others) do when it comes to their new release radios/products.  They demand that retailers/distributors all charge a set price.  That keeps their prices up and discounts the ability for a LHS to compete.  If my LHS had the choice to take $10.00/$20.00 bucks off a new DX8, I'd buy from them so I didn't have to wait weeks for an on line purchase.

OliverJacob

My Feedback: (12)

When all LHS owners act childish and throw out the customers who ever buy online, they will have to close very soon.
Online stores, especially HK have changed the market, people will keep buying online.

Now there is still room for these stores, people need something right now - and they are willing to pay some extra $.
Also if they'd get involved in local clubs and activities, they could make some money.
If I had an LHS, I'd probably close on Monday and have a trailer to get to some local events on the weekends instead.