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  1. #26

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Very true, countylaw. They are called 'helicopter parents' which will always hover above their kids and make sure no 'evil' will hit them.
    These kids can not concentrate on anything, can not handle failure and will likely be unemployed unless mom and dad buys them a fancy degree where
    they will destroy lots of companies and jobs.

    Its not even the kids fault - the parents are to blame. We all see plenty of examples.

    I have seen parents who don't want their kids outside to play, it's too hot, too cold, they get lost, kindnapped, bla bla

    What will these kids do in their later life? Most of those can't handle life once their are grown up.

    Rant off.

    So there is another very active thread about our hobby shops. I do not see anything there I really want. Little foamies would not keep my in the hobby.
    When I was a kid and saw the frist rc plane, I wanted one. It took many years from there to get one. It was a glider, given to me by a neigbor who lost
    interest after building his first plane. The wings were warped and it just didn't want to fly right.
    But I kept trying. Today a child would loose interest after a few minutes.

    Hard to say how we can change this situation. The parents had to be involved, as well as the schools.
    In 7th grade our school (I grew up in Germany) wanted suggestions for a 'project week' - my buddy and me suggested modelling
    and there was a class held where a bunch of kid build a free flight glider (Graupner - Der kleine Uhu - the little owl).
    This was a great success.
    Also in our club we had some flying event throughout the season. Over a weekend we had thousands of spectators and always found a few to sign up
    and become a member of the club.

    If you build it, they will come....

  2. #27
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?



     It's the economy stupid!  So many people lost their jobs, or had to retire too early.  The clubs areound here are fairly active, but lots of small cheapy electrics.  Used to be alot of large gassers.  Last time I saw a large gasser a newby thought they were not allowed.  Still you see one every month or two.

    Glow Head Brotherhood #15

  3. #28
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Well, I'm lucky. I belong to two clubs here in central Fl and to fly on Saturdays or Sundays is an ordeal. 
    There are soooo many people flying you have to wait your turn.
    I'm also lucky to have an afternoon or two off a wk, and then there is nobody and the field is all yours.
    I even learn ( with a steel cable for restraint ) to start my 30cc gasser all on my own.
    Both clubs are still healthy with all types of planes, from slow sticks to 100cc
    Keep your wings level
    Club Saito Member #693

  4. #29
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: kurt2022

    Eddie, your presence at the field is greatly missed and I hope to see you out there this weekend! If you do come out drag your brother along with his 260 or reactor!
    Ill do my best Kurt... but i do plan on coming back full force soon..... losing all my tools was a big blow and other side interests have been a huge factor in me take a some time off...but i will NEVER stop flying thats for sure!!!
    \"Propellers are notorious for inflicting serious bodily harm while vigorously defending their space\" George Aldrich

  5. #30

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Hey Kurt and Metallica, what club are you guys members of? I am still renegade currently and have visited Richardson and will check out North Dallas soon and hope to join one of them next year.
    The Pamster
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  6. #31

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    What has your club done to promote itself lately?

    Our club has the exact opposite problem, in the last 2 years we've picked up so many new members that it is now difficult to get flight time on a Saturday morning. But we have a brand new blacktop runway, have new "personal facilities", have new electrical connections and have actively promoted the club at the LHSs and local events. It hasn't been easy and it hasn't been free, but the club is busier than it's ever been in the 26 years that I've been associated with it and busier than any I've seen in 45 years of aeromodeling.

    Yes, the complexion of RC has changed. There are more ARFs and fewer builders, times change. But with the current spate of inexpensive ARFs and dirt cheap RC equipment, there are more people than ever looking for a good field that can support their desire to learn and fly.

    Provide a runway that will handle light electric ARFs, have electricity available at the field, provide instructors to teach the newbies, tell people you are there and the world will beat a path to your door. But be careful what you ask for, you may get it. You might wind up with so many members that it'll be difficult to get flight time.

    Dave

  7. #32

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I think there are many variables to clubs that decline. Things like economy, distance, field upkeep, etc. contribute. One thing that really is lacking is public relations. I cannot tell you how many people don't even know about RC clubs. Also, some paint and a little elbow grease can promote your clubs.

    Clubs are about people and sometimes clubs need some change for the better. I am in two clubs. One has about 60+ members and the other only has 9. I enjoy flying more at the club with 9 just because the folks seem much more easy going and don't let things bother them. The club with 60+ seem to have some drama at times and have lost some memberships.

    The club with 9 members is very remote and not many people in the area would be interested in learning RC. Most just don't have the extra money to invest right now and I work a lot so I can only do so much right now as well. The fellows in the club are older men and only have so many more years to go in life. Some of them have been flying for over 35 years! It is one of the oldest clubs in Virginia.

    I am trying to get a few younger people involved to help carry the club on as long as possible and as long as the land owner allows them to keep it. The main group mostly fly on Sunday evenings and the rest of the time the field is wide open. I often fly alone if I go over on Saturdays or during the week. I think there are only me and one other person under 70 in the club and if I am not mistaken the rest are mid-seventies upwards above 80 (rough guess).

    I plan to put up a new sign this winter and seek out some "fresh" RC'ers. If I can afford to I might run a couple small adds or make a few flyers just to throw around to see if there is any interest next year. The club would only want to increase by maybe 3-5 members and 15 is a good number.

  8. #33

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    The economy does has an effect on this hobby.  It's not cheap and the investment for a new person is complicated by the frequent and total loss of their investment.  Yes, beginners do start out with crashes and that never ends totally.  This new generation has a different focus and definitely a different upbringing.

    A cheap plane set up costs $150.00.  That ends up in a Glad Bag and the frustration drives a nail in the coffin for quitting.  Dues to a club field, gas at $4.00 a gallon, AMA membership and other expenses add up. 

    There's no way around the costs. 

    This all added to the fact that this new generation isn't into real life participant entertainment other than perhaps going to a sporting event.  Computer games, Face Book, Internet dating sites have taken the physical activity away from hobby interests.  God forbid a young person have to take the time to preflight, or build an ARF, attend a club field when they can video chat all day and play the newest blood game sport on their computer. 

    The good news.  WOW...look how much flying time we can get in without all the people at the field.

    I personally started this hobby late in life and that is what has kept me so rivoted.  It truly is an awesome hobby.  I think my last trimester of life and the earned wisdom I have absorbed in 60 years gives me the respect and patience needed to survive the expense.

    That and I'm too old and ugly to internet date anymore!
    Intelligence is similar to a dress code. Dont attend a black tie affair wearing cutoffs and a tank top. Know your facts

  9. #34

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    thepamster,
    Tejas and Rio Grande flyers, both are really nice facilitys that can handle just about any size aircraft, we even had full scale helicopter crash at Tejas a couple of years ago, but thats another story in itself. We would be glad to have you!

  10. #35
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    \"Propellers are notorious for inflicting serious bodily harm while vigorously defending their space\" George Aldrich

  11. #36

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: countilaw

    I
    The kids of the 80s, know only instant gradification. Plug and Play. They have usually always had whatever they wanted just handed to them. Now, they just want to fly and fly now. If it doesn't work on batteries, they aren't interested. If it has to be put together, they aren't interested. If they can't fly it in their back yard or their living room, they aren't interested.

    This isn't true for everyone, but I think for the vast majority I am afraid it is.

    I am a "Kid of the 80's" and as far as I remember, there were very few ARF type of kits, and of those that did exist were of questionable Quality, and pretty expensive at that... I built My Sig Kadet MKII in the very early 80's, and it took me about 6 months to complete.. I am now 47, still have that Kadet, (No, not currently flyable).. I don't remember the "Instant Gratification" part of the hobby in the 80's, unless 6 months build time was considered "Instant"!


    Hey, Lopflyers, and anyone else who will be in the Central Florida area on Sat Oct 13th.. My club "Osceola Flyers" in Kissimmee is having an Open Fun Fly on Sat Oct 13.. Come on out if you can, would love to meet you!!!
    Here is the web address if interested.. http://www.osceolaflyers.org/



    Craig.

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  12. #37
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: SeaJay


    ORIGINAL: countilaw

    I
    The kids of the 80s, know only instant gradification. Plug and Play. They have usually always had whatever they wanted just handed to them. Now, they just want to fly and fly now. If it doesn't work on batteries, they aren't interested. If it has to be put together, they aren't interested. If they can't fly it in their back yard or their living room, they aren't interested.

    This isn't true for everyone, but I think for the vast majority I am afraid it is.

    I am a "Kid of the 80's" and as far as I remember, there were very few ARF type of kits, and of those that did exist were of questionable Quality, and pretty expensive at that... I built My Sig Kadet MKII in the very early 80's, and it took me about 6 months to complete.. I am now 47, still have that Kadet, (No, not currently flyable).. I don't remember the "Instant Gratification" part of the hobby in the 80's, unless 6 months build time was considered "Instant"!


    Hey, Lopflyers, and anyone else who will be in the Central Florida area on Sat Oct 13th.. My club "Osceola Flyers" in Kissimmee is having an Open Fun Fly on Sat Oct 13.. Come on out if you can, would love to meet you!!!

    Craig.

    SeaJay,
    We were talking about kids born in the 80's. They are now in their late 20's and still living at home with mom.
    In the 80's there were just a few ARF manufacturers around. And most of us remember them, Lanier, John Casburne's " Super Lucky fly", were two of them. If you wanted to fly, you had to spend the time building.

    Frank

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  13. #38

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Frank,

    OK, Sorry.. My Bad.. I thought you meant those of us who were kids in the 80's!! OK, I'll admit it's kind of late for me, and my cognitive reasoning skills are not at thier best right now!! Yes, when I was in my early 20's, I was living at home with mom too.. My how times have changed for me, as Mom is Now living at my home with me!!! (In my best Darth Vader voice) Now the child has become the Parent!!

    BTW, Nice Looking Field you have there.. and also, WOW, thats a Huge plane that is in Jims Trailer.. saw the other Pic of him posing near it.. Is that a Space Walker?? Must be nearly 50% or larger...

    Craig..


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  14. #39
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Our Club, Golden Triangle RC Club will be celebrating our 50 th year anniversary this Saturday, Oct 6, in Grand Prairie, Texas at Joe Pool Lake.

    http://www.gtrcc.org/


    If you are in the area, come on out and enjoy the free hotdogs and drinks. There will be raffles, give aways, and a great air show.

    Bring something to fly.

    Frank
    AMA #5810
    CPA # 73
    Contest Director
    AMA Introductory Flight Instructor

  15. #40

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    It seems that it is difficult to get new blood in the hobby. My club, Hudson Valley Radio Control Club in NY holds an air show every Summer and we feature buddy box time. Last year we had 63 participants and this year 45. Everyone enjoyed it but they rarely come back and take it further. A lot of them will go to a "hobby shop" and buy some little foam airplane, take it to a school yard and try to fly it. We all know what happens next. I always encourage people not to buy anything until they fly a few times and are ready to make a committment to buy something that we can put on a buddy box for them.

    I also have the habit of always bringing a trainer to the field on weekends so I can offer visitors a chance to try the hobby. I believe that along with the kids, it's just as important to go after the adults. They have the money and time to pursue the hobby and hopefuly they in turn will introduce the hobby to their kids and grand kids.

  16. #41
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I'm 29 and have been in the hobby for 17 years, flying radio control for 14 years now, since sophomore year of highschool.

    I started with a familiar routine: Guillow's, Cox 049, Sterling 35 size control line..then made my way to radio control. Although I have owned two arfs, I enjoy building kits...all glow, from the .20 to 1.20 size range.

    The problem with instant gratification is that it instantly goes away. I enjoy the build, the flying, the maintenance and finally just having them hung up on the wall. A lot of friends see them, ask about them, and comment on how cool they are. Many of those friends will never know what it takes to build a model, but that doesn't subtract from my enjoyment. The gratification doesn't disappear.
    Club Saito Member #657
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  17. #42

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I'm not so pessimistic about the hobby as some in this thread are, nor am I as quick to dismiss the youngsters as the future of the hobby. I'm 36, so I suppose I am in the middle between the crotchety old timers and the annoying 20 year olds. As I see it, the hobby has declined sharply with the recession because it wasn't healthy to begin with. People who had done it for a few years were still doing it, but it had never really scratched the itch they had had. I don't mean the committed 20 year veteran here, but rather the guys who had maybe been involved for 3-4 years. When money got tight, they let go of a hobby that wasn't what they had hoped it would be in the first place.

    Which brings up the question why? I see a new demographic in the hobby that many clubs don't recognize and the AMA certainly hasn't figure out. That's the casual flyer. This is a guy who doesn't want to or isn't able to spend the time to do complicated builds, but he does want to enjoy time at the flying field. He's focused on flying skills to the detriment of building skills, and he likes the fresh air and sunshine and camaraderie that flying with friends provides. He likely has a couple of other leisure activities he does like golf or hunting (which he's also casual about), and he's not going to give them up. ARFs and foamies have made this kind of hobbyist possible, which is a good thing. Guys like that simply wouldn't have done the hobby at all in the previous generation. Many of you in this thread call the casual flyer lazy and immature, as if being super committed to building toy airplanes is a sign of maturity. What you don't understand about the casual flyer is that he's willing to invest time and money if he sees a benefit for himself, but he's not going to if it's presented as an obligation to keep the 60 year olds happy. So field work days, passing the hat to get a bill paid, and volunteering to run or work an event are all possible with the casual flyer, but don't expect him to step up if you don't make a case that it's worthwhile for him to do so. And whatever you do, don't hold up the older guys with kids out of the house who have some disposable income and more free time as the standard to which all club members should meet. It's unfair to expect a 30 year old with 2-3 young ones at home to be able to put the time and money in that many older club members can. Doing so creates a hostile environment for the casual flyer even if you don't mean for it to. Openly complaining makes it much worse, and the young guys do know when you don't like them.

    The truth of the matter is that the hobby is experiencing a paradigm shift from the competitive hobbyist to the casual flyer. I suspect the same thing happened when monokote replaced silk, and glow power replaced sparkers. The hobby has continually gotten easier to do and somewhat less equipment intensive with each new innovation. ARFs and good foamies are simply the next thing. Clubs that understand the needs of the casual flyer and embrace the change that is coming whether you like it or not will survive and possibly thrive. And interestingly, if you will be welcoming to the casual flyer, you'll find that he can be converted into a committed hobbyist with time. Old timers will enjoy watching the foamy guy do his first build and enter his first contest, and may even be asked to pass on some of the knowledge they have to the next generation.
    No kid, I said break ground and fly into the wind!

  18. #43

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: jester_s1

    I'm not so pessimistic about the hobby as some in this thread are, nor am I as quick to dismiss the youngsters as the future of the hobby. I'm 36, so I suppose I am in the middle between the crotchety old timers and the annoying 20 year olds. As I see it, the hobby has declined sharply with the recession because it wasn't healthy to begin with. People who had done it for a few years were still doing it, but it had never really scratched the itch they had had. I don't mean the committed 20 year veteran here, but rather the guys who had maybe been involved for 3-4 years. When money got tight, they let go of a hobby that wasn't what they had hoped it would be in the first place.
    Funny you said that, I am 61, half way between the crotchety old timers and the annoying 36 year olds:-)

    Gerry

  19. #44

    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    As a younger rc aviator (36 yrs) I disagree that "instant gratification" is secluded to any generation and I believe this mentality has always been a part of our hobby. Who isn't overly eager to jump into any hobby when they've tasted something they really enjoy? With huge advancements in rc modeling production, getting your hands on a ready-to-fly aircraft is easier then ever. However, that doesn't mean it's easier then ever to learn to fly.
    Regardless of age or technology, the principle of and understanding how to fly remain the same. And this requires time & patience. Are there individuals who want to fly "right now"? Absolutely, but they quickly learn it's not that easy and some will eventually walk away. Like full scale, dedication is a requirement for our hobby and for some that level of dedication is not worth the reward.
    I've trained numerous rc pilots from 7yrs to 67yrs of age and each has come to me expecting to get their pilots wings in a weekend. I tell them that this will take time and patience and they often reply, "On your end?". I laugh and say, "No, on your end." Then I proceed to explain the rewards and the thrill you get when after what seems like forever (for training), you take off and fly on your own for the first time. I tell everyone who asks that rc aviation is an investment in a life-long hobby and if you treat it with respect, it will return the favor with memories and friends that last a long time.
    Regardless of how you come to own your aircraft, from scratch, a kit, an ARF, etc., or its size, it boils down to becoming positive stewards of model aviation and educating those who ask about our hobby - pilots and nonpilots alike. Excitement is contagious and securing the future of our hobby depends on sharing that any way you can.

    -andrew

    Side Note: jester_s1hit on another very important and growing populace of our hobby; the casual flier. They're just as dedicated to the love of the hobby, but in their own way. Nicely put Jester.

  20. #45
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Well I want to tell you all there is a place like what your talking about, and it's not far from the field of dreams here in Iowa. I fly at the Screaming Eagles field on a local farmers land and these people are all about flying and helping people learn. The farmers son wil sometimes not even fly his own aircraft to help out other flyers, (Including me). And he does it for the club for nothing but the pure enjoyment. Him and his family are so hospitible that they sometimes bring snacks out to the flyers. After the sun goes down we sit around a camp fire and talk flying....Is this heaven? No It's Iowa!!!!

  21. #46
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    We have a few new members this year, two are under 16 and the one loves to build and tinker while the other is content with foamies and elec. ARF's . Another younger member (mid 30's) is also into building. However we have had quite a few younger(under 16) and a few not so young members who got bored quickly with it and would rather be back on their x-boxes and ipads.
    There was a comment about the parents and I agree that the parents play a huge role with younger members. At least one of the parents of each of our junior members is very involved in their kids hobby and simply do not drop them off and come pick them up when they are finished. They stay ,watch, help, and interact with the other parents and members. I do believe a few of the younger members stopped coming due in part to the lack of participation with their parents. Either way as I said before it takes a lot work to get new members and just as much if not more to keep them.
    Brian Ray

  22. #47
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    It's the cars, man.  Way back when i was a kid RC was planes.  Then the sailboats were added.  Then the boats, espcecially war boats with guns.  Now it's cars, buggies, monster trucks  and tanks.  Yep, those pesky cars are stealing our pilots from us. [:'(]

    Seriously, though, there is an attitude of "screw the club" rising.  At least one poster above showed it.  That attitude may be the result of the RTF Park Flyer instant gratification phenomenom - or it may just be the "I don't need no stinkin rules" attitude.  But it is really hurting the hobby because the problems it creates are attracting the wrong kind of attention - government attention.  I think clubs, like the hobby shops and even the AMA itself, should expand their interests into more than just planes.  Many clubs still don't want helis around instead of setting aside an area for them.  And very few clubs actually have a place for buggies, etc.  This is one hobby - RCUniverse sure isn't limited to planes.

  23. #48

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I think a club can increase membership both new and old, and fire up the current membership, with fun activities that don't require a fee to paticipate. I am blessed to belong to a club that has really strong turn outs on the weekends. We have a full spectrum of planes that show up from the flat foamies to the planes expensive enough to buy a new Honda, we embrace it all, because if it were not for the ARF's or BNF's there would probably be maybe just a handful of people showing up, if any young people at all.

  24. #49

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I wish I knew what happened with our club. At our field, over the last few years, went from about thirty members at our peak to about 3 that actually fly.

  25. #50

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Flying clubs are like family, if no effort is made to keep contact, slowly members just move on with other interests. And, all it takes is just a simple text on how that person is doing. Just a thought


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