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  1. #51

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Most clubs are not too family friendly. So It's only for dad and hopefully the boys will catch the flying bug, too.
    So maybe a nice shed where the ladys can have their coffee and talk will make them come to the field.

    It's nice to see some girls out there, so make sure they are not bored.
    The economy sure has hit some people hard, but there are ways to save money and keep flying.

    This hobby is alive until we all declare it dead.
    Giving up is not an option for me, I hope most people here think the same way


  2. #52

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    The group of pilots who fly big scale planes in our club have pretty much alienated every other pilot with their pompus and arrogant attitude. They do not socialize with the sport pilots and the young up and coming pilots, so it is very hard to pick up on their skills when you don't really want to be around them, or can't stand being around them. In some cases, new pilots have quit or moved to other clubs because of the harrasment they have received in the past by this group. They are generally well-to-do, and can afford to crash these big expensive models and planes. They have to because their piloting skills are marginal at best.

    They do very little to promote the sport. They alienate young members. They initiate no programs to promote new members joining. And, they are the leaders of the club that make all the decisions. Go figure......

  3. #53

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I'll add my $.03 (adjusted for inflation and exchange rates). There are many reasons why I dont fly anywhere near as often as i used to. My situation is unique to me, but Im sure many have similar circumstances. I've flown off and on from the 80s, built some, arf'ed alot, rebuilt and modded planes, etc. Everything from micros up to pattern and 3d. I currently fly sailplanes/gliders, indoor electric, and whatever else suits my fancy. I dont fly at the local clubs. Dont knock the foam toy planes, the mylar toy planes (Vapors and such). They have caused more hours of continuous laughter( to the point of crying LOL) in an airconditioned gym in the summer, same heated gym in the winter. 15 vapors attempting carrier landings on tables and flying through hula hoops is a riot. Those indoor events are not affilliated with any club, which seems to bring out the folks like me who just want to hang out and have a good time. noone hesitates to hand a transmitter to a total stranger, kid, etc, because the chances of damage are slim. Weve gotten folks hooked that were just passing by because of that. I dont think there are many folks that would do that with a 50% plane...

    Club life:
    I became fed up with the drama at the club field, the cliques that tried to dictate where you parked, and defined you by who you parked next to, pitted next to, and talked to. At the club I'm referring to, those were the same folks that looked down upon new members/younger guys (even though they were more than happy to take the dues money). They were also the same folks that kept shoooting down attempts at funfly events, swap meets, etc. I flew as often as 6 days a week (lunch and after work during the week). A few folks did the meat of the field work, and sadly, that became expected of them, and were chastized when the field wasnt mowed, etc...Quite honestly, i became burned out over all things flying, did it too much, and the guys i hung out with either left the club or moved out of state. When your bad influences leave, it reduces your desire to go. When glow fuel got ridiculously expensive (burning a gallon or two over a weekend), i didnt fly as often. The costs associated with converting to electric were not feasible for me at that time.

    Real Life:
    Work had me out of town doing project work....that left weekends to get caught up on all the stuff at home.
    Family medical issues...taking care of elderly parents in declining health puts things in perspective...
    Daughter took up playing soccer, so I coached her team. Games on Sat, Practice on Sunday. Kids will take precedence over toy planes.
    Other hobbies filtered in, kayaking, hiking, shooting, etc. each sliver (like Jester said) took me further away from flying. Sadly, flying isnt the only bastion of cliquey people....
    Any other number of little things taking up a saturday here, sunday there, or a weekend.

    Now i race rc sailboats in 3 classes, fly indoors a few times a month, fly sailplanes at the high school down the road and head over to the mtns for sloping/glider flying on occasion. I'm doing those activities when I WANT to do them, not when someone tells me i have to do them. We have club functions where we expose kids and families to sailing, and hand transmitters to folks that walk up almost every weekend. Most are scared at first, but when you tell them they wont sink it, they take right to it.

    Real life is still happening...My daughter and I are doing full scale flight school, trying to find her a college, etc. Flying rc is NOT a priority, definitely nowhere near as important as it once was. My daughter's interest in RC as a youngster has contributed to her education and profession choices, so it did serve a very valuable purpose.

    The one perception that I see from some of the initial posts was that people are looking down on folks that arent at the field every week, if even occasionally, or not at all. The levels of commitment are going to vary from person to person, just appreciate the good ones when they show up, miss them when they dont, and try to tolerate the doodieheads when they make their appearances.

  4. #54

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: pmerritt

    The economy does has an effect on this hobby. It's not cheap and the investment for a new person is complicated by the frequent and total loss of their investment. Yes, beginners do start out with crashes and that never ends totally. This new generation hasa different focus and definitely a different upbringing.

    A cheap plane set up costs $150.00. That ends up in a Glad Bag and the frustration drives a nail in the coffin for quitting. Dues to a club field, gas at $4.00 a gallon, AMA membership and other expenses add up.

    There's no way around the costs.

    This all added to the fact that this new generation isn't into real life participantentertainment other than perhaps going to a sporting event. Computer games, Face Book, Internet dating sites have taken the physical activity away from hobby interests. God forbid a young person have to take the time to preflight, or build an ARF, attend a club field when they can video chat all day and play the newest blood game sport on their computer.

    The good news. WOW...look how much flying time we can get in without all the people at the field.

    I personally started this hobby late in life and that is what has kept me so rivoted. It truly is an awesome hobby. I think my last trimester of life and the earned wisdom I have absorbed in 60 years gives me the respect and patience needed to survive the expense.

    That and I'm too old and ugly to internet date anymore!
    But yet these same people, will spend hundreds a month on smart phone services, apps and such. They even will spend more on gas driving much further for other activities. All their choice of course, but I get tired of hearing how they cant afford it. Our economy isnt great by any means, but many are still thriving.

    And you are never too old to internet date !


  5. #55
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Yes but those smart phones have apps that can fly quadcopters in FPV 

  6. #56

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Listen to yourselves, guys! You are totally insulting a whole generation of potential pilots. You don't like them. You think they are soft. You think your generation was so much better than them (even though you were the parents that raised themor you raised the parents of the parents). OK, you have a right to your opinions. But then you turn around and say your club membership is declining. Who the heck would WANT to be in a club that has such disdain for everybody not in their generation?

    Personally I have no problem with the younger generation (I'm 60 and I raised three of the hardest working youngsters you'll ever meet, and all their friends are pretty amazing as well). But I do have a problem with clubs and older guys that seem to be stuck in an older technological age.

    I think a lot of clubs are still in the mode of glow and gasoline planes weighing 6 pounds or more. With that sized plane you probably need a lot of rules and a field safety marshall, and pilot "stations", and no spectators on the field, etc. etc. But now almost everybody is flying electrics that weigh a couple of pounds or less. Could they hurt somebody in a freak accident? Sure, but freak accidents can happen anytime, and they are thankfully rare. I've seen people scared away from clubs by "safety" field marshalls that clearly were still thinking of olden times.

    Most clubs are still training potential pilots with glow or gas planes. Half the training time is spent going over safety and fooling around with temperamental engines and other complex gear. I know from training my friends that you can learn 100 times faster with a nice 2 pound electric trainer. First, it's easier to fly, and second, you just turn it on and it works. If it crashes, you hot glue it back together or buy some inexpensive replacement parts. Why would a new person stay with the club when the club members are actually making it harder to learn to fly? And then they can read here that the older generation looks down on them for taking the easy route, when every single one of them would have done exactly the same thing if the technology were available.

  7. #57

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I fly at one of the biggest and most beutiful fields in the north east. The old farts, and I am not talking age, have a bad effect on the club. They complain about everything. Hate change of any kind and then you NEVER see them fly or show up at the field. We have 140 members and only 5 or 10 people show up on the weekend. I stiil have great fun anyway.

  8. #58

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: oliveDrab


    ORIGINAL: dirtybird

    There used to be a rule. You had to build the airplane you entered in the contest. Whatever happened to that?
    That's a great rule. Which one of the following builds would satisfy that rule:

    1. building from scratch?
    2. building a kit?
    3. building an ARF?
    I assume that #3, building an ARF, would violate the rule.




    Good question but you build numbers 1 & 2, number 3 you assemble the ARF. It's a little different from cutting spars and aligning ribs and bulkheads etc., etc.

    Just my opinion.
    J F Sohm - AMA# 192350 - IMAA# 15145
    If you're not catching any flak, you're not over the target.

  9. #59

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Build vs Buy?

    Nobody builds a cars or motorcycles from scratch anymore, same as very nearly nobody builds their own radio gear, you can buy them cheaper that performs better than anything you can make yourself. As an ardent scratchbuilder it's a hard thing to admit that while I have the skills to build whatever I want in either composite or timber, my time is better spend earning the money to buy it, as my time is not "free" at my age in life. It costs me less than a months salary to buy and Oxai F3A ship that I can get 3+ years service out of, I still have my scratch build Curare from 20+ years ago and my kit build Slingshot from 20 years ago and while both still fly nice, they're obsolete for the job they were built for. Why would I waste 6+ months of my afterwork life plus hundreds of dollars to build my own F3A airframe ever again??

    I still have more respect for a scratchbuilt plane than for an ARF, no matter how many so called "custom" (more like big dollar off-the-shelf) bits are in it.


    Attracting and retaining new members?

    The new breed of "bought some foamy arf thing to give it a go" have little interest in the sport and have nothing invested in it. These people will leave the fold as quickly as they arrived unless something hooks them in. If you can keep them coming out to the field long enough to realise that the social environment is a positive place to spend time and they can see there's more to the sport the deeper they choose to look then they might choose to hang around and over time start putting something back into the club. Sure it's frustrating when a certain group of fliers in your club (even after many years) will walk straight past you like you're not there and won't say hello unless you do first but our club's big enough to find another couple of fliers that will say hello and actually ask you what you're doing. It's a fact of life that not everyone at your clubs cares if your alive or not, so get over it and find somebody else to talk to.

    As for young people???? I work in higher education and find it very difficult. I continually ask myself do the old standards by which we judge performance still apply in todays world? Does it really matter if a student cheats to get an answer on an exam, as in the real world they no longer have to know anything, they only have to know how to get the answer. The days of the British Empire sending some Engineer out to the wilds of Africa to build a railway bridge are long gone, as help is now only an iPad app (or google) away....

    Just my 0.02 AUD.


  10. #60
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    bjr-why????? Because you want to. Or don't. That's the beauty of it. I have done every aspect of this hobby, scratch, kit,arf,rtc, and rtf. Any and all is a part of the hobby. Some come and go, always have always will. Times are not changing much, not really. Just how we do it. After thirty plus years I still prefer to build my own, either a kit or scratch, depending on model and availability. And then there's those that I like but don't want to build, that's where the ARF's come in handy. All the argument's about every aspect, club participation, clubs, types of planes, techniques etc. etc. have been around for as long as I can remember. As a kid there was a couple of us that went to the ballfield to fly our C/L's on Saturday's. And there was those that came and went, and those that built there own and those that bought pre-assembled and even there way back then was most of these same argument's. The only thing I see really changing is now there is a place like RCU where people can go and do a whole lot more of that same old thing with a few more people than one could way back then.
     I say shut up and enloy what YOU enjoy. I do.
    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
    Corsair Brotherhood #56\\ Waco Brotherhood #184

  11. #61

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    Did I just really write something that warranted to be told to shut up or am I taking that the wrong way?


  12. #62
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    i want everything handed to me. Vote Obama. please.
    Club Saito Member #1
    AMA# 542304

  13. #63
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I think he is just telling you to go fly a kite, I dont think he is insulting you just saying, stop complaining and enjoy your hobby it is very much alive.

    I think.
    Carlos R.
    Go fly a Jet today.

  14. #64
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I too have seen the changes as time goes by, then I ask myself, is it me changing or the hobby? I think both, my kids are growing up and they need more of my attention and time, also the hobby is evolving with new thechnology out there for us to use, now we can have an airplane ready in minutes, not even hours.

    At work things are changing too so, I have to evolve ( I promes I will stay human ) instead of buying a new toy for me I will be using that money to get one more license in orther to get another position within the company.

    I try to quit the hobby twice before but I end up coming back on both occations so, I quit quitting the hobby , I see that I'm entering a time of not much flying for me but I'm not given up, I just got me a new Futaba 10CAG 2.4 radio for my airplanes and not to long ago a 6I Spektrum radio, I also have 2 kits I like to build ( yes, I like to build my airplanes too)
    Carlos R.
    Go fly a Jet today.

  15. #65
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    The hobby of dreams and the sport of flying? As a member of two clubs with long history's. I have had the chance to see the clubs change and yes, stay the same. The oldest and biggest club has been as high as two hundred members and as low as thirty. Right now the club is growing. Yesterday there was twenty people flying, OK, twenty people at the field. Friday there will be twenty or so. Saturday and Sunday will have a equal number, but a different bunch. The first thought would be the guys that fly during the week are the retired gang. Yes and No. In this area we have a lot of shift work. There is also a large amount of week end work here. The other club I belong to is kind of the same, but it is a week end place. All the points made on this thread could apply to my clubs at different times in their history.
    Like one person put it. He was giving up on quitting the hobby. I think I know how he feels. Was the OP on to something? Yes, I think for him right now he has it right. Is those in clubs that have a growing population correct? Yes for them. Yes I think the times are a changing, but the thing stays the same. The OP has given us a chance to see we are not alone in this venture and there is not much difference in any of us.

  16. #66

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    apwachholz - I love your attitude. It's guys who think like this that will keep the clubs healthy and welcome new people to the hobby.

    For the crotchety ones, some of the comments remind me of conversations about how church used to be so much better, or even moreso how music used to be so much better than it is now. The truth of the matter is that memories get sweeter the longer they go back, and things weren't as good then as they seem to have been. You can't make a blanket statement about kids nowadays not having the attention span or the dedication to do the hobby right, at least not a valid one. Sure, they aren't as committed as a guy who's been doing it 25 years and has amassed a nice collection of good flying planes, but the veteran wasn't that committed either as a youngster. I was on the tail end of gen x, the original dropout, short attention span, never amount to anything generation. I used to sometimes stay up all night working on a model rocket or a putting together and painting a model car or doing a science project for school. Pursuing excellence in this hobby and doing the work is more about temperament than generational differences. Interestingly enough, it's the baby boomers who are doing the most complaining, the generation who has screwed up more things than any other in our country- the original instant gratification, me me me generation. Yet there are some good apples in that basket as well, often the ones who are in a position to do the most for a thriving club due to their age and station in life. But you undo all the good that you do when you complain about the younger people and their habits. If you see a problem (a real problem, not just a deviation from your personal preferences) by all means teach the newbie so he'll do things right, but do so with a positive attitude. The phrase, "Can I show you something?" can work wonders for getting the younger generation to listen to you, at least on the 6th or 7th attempt.
    No kid, I said break ground and fly into the wind!

  17. #67

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    "a real problem, not just a deviation from your personal preferences" .... ha ha, "I don't like it, so you can't do it." ... that attitude is crippling the UK.

  18. #68
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    In the 1999-2004 time frame our club was very close to the 50 member limit set in the bylaws and probably half were pretty regular flyers. We currently have about 20 members and no more than 3 or 4 regular flyers.
    I get so tired of all the lame excuses as to why they can't come out to fly! I've heard them all, like it's too hot or too cold, too windy, have to stay home and hold the girlfriends hand, no time, gas is too high, changing interests and on and on!
    Those things may all be "lame" to you but it is reality for many.

    Wind - I am not a very good pilot. If it is very windy I crash. I do not like crashing.
    Too Hot - I've had episodes of heat exhaustion, almost got to heat stroke once.
    I live 45 miles from the field. My brother and I ride together. Between loading/unloading, and drive time, a few hours are gone if we get there and it is too windy or too hot to fly.

    I do not have the wife/girlfriend issue but that is very real for a lot of people. A number of our members have left to take up RVing, fishing, hunting, pistol shooting, music, car racing, etc; and there is not enough time or money to do both hobbies.
    - Carrell

  19. #69

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I have to agree with bjr 93tz . i have made from sratch a few over the years but between work and everthing else arf's are a good way to go. my club has grown every year buy 1to3 members we have a club night on tuesdays fire up the grill and have a good time. it's a family oreintated club. we have a fly in and a float fly every year with a large amount of $ going to Breast canner. a club is what you make it  so enjoy it.

  20. #70
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    NO!
    I was not telling you to shut up. Just a generality. In general people need to quit whining, go and do what they enjoy and not worry about what other's are or are not doing. Complaining does absolutely no good. If one does not like something do something to make it better. That use to be the American way.
    I'll give an example; I have a neighbor who became unable to maintain his yard. Two of the other neighbor's called the county on him, which by the way there is absolutely no ordinance where I live for yard maintenance. I took it upon myself to start mowing his yard each week when I mow mine. Combined mowing and weed eating is about 45 minute's. I also took it upon myself when confronted by those neighbors, as to why I was doing it, to tell them what lousy downright un American neibors they are.
    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
    Corsair Brotherhood #56\\ Waco Brotherhood #184

  21. #71
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    By the way, I currently maintain three household's. Maybe, hopefully, when I become incapable someone will return the favor. But with the downward trend in the majority of American's, the me myself and I and lets not leave out give me, give me, and give me, probably not.
    Robert
    Cub Brotherhood #3\\ Ryan STA Brotherhood #4
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  22. #72

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: acerc

    NO!
    I was not telling you to shut up. Just a generality. In general people need to quit winning, go and do what they enjoy and not worry about what other's are or are not doing. *Complaining does absolutely no good. If one does not like something do something to make it better. That use to be the American way.
    I'll give an example; I have a neighbor who became unable to maintain his yard. Two of the other neighbor's called the county on him, which by the way there is absolutely no ordinance where I live for yard maintenance. I took it upon myself to start mowing his yard each week when I mow mine. Combined mowing and weed eating is about 45 minute's. I also took it upon myself when confronted by those neighbors, as to why I was doing it, to tell them what lousy downright un American neibors they are.
    EXACTLY what's wrong with this country - we tell everyone they aren't losers, so there are no winners! Competition breeds excellence. We need MORE winners!

    Now WHINERS are another story...

    Trent Combs
    Fly \'em until the last piece stops!

  23. #73

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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    I have a charcoal grill that I can't give away. The latest "instant gratification" generation will only buy gas grills. Can you believe it?!? I can remember way back when even before you could buy those little charcoal briquettes and had to burn wood! It was so much better back then and people had so much more dedication - spending hours on what today's self-centered youth can do in minutes. I am simply appalled. Hey wait, who replaced my manual typewriter with this electronical gizmo-thingy in front of me. And where's my telegraph machine? And my Sears catalog (i.e. tp)? Gotta go, the iceman is here to deliver my weekly block of ice.

    Kurt

  24. #74
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?

    So I mispelled WHINERS you got the point. And it has been corrected.As for winners and losers, you mean to tell me every kid should not get a trophy. Ohhhhhh the horror of it. Choke, gag, puke. Hell no. Losers not only should not get a trophy but, as I had to do in LL, applaude the winner's. Sure made me wanna work harder to be a winner. Might have something to do with why and how I retired at 45 years of age.
    Robert
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  25. #75
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    RE: The times, they are a changin! Say it ain't so Joe?


    ORIGINAL: Mike in DC

    Listen to yourselves, guys! You are totally insulting a whole generation of potential pilots. You don't like them. You think they are soft. You think your generation was so much better than them (even though you were the parents that raised themor you raised the parents of the parents). OK, you have a right to your opinions. But then you turn around and say your club membership is declining. Who the heck would WANT to be in a club that has such disdain for everybody not in their generation?

    Personally I have no problem with the younger generation (I'm 60 and I raised three of the hardest working youngsters you'll ever meet, and all their friends are pretty amazing as well). But I do have a problem with clubs and older guys that seem to be stuck in an older technological age.

    I think a lot of clubs are still in the mode of glow and gasoline planes weighing 6 pounds or more. With that sized plane you probably need a lot of rules and a field safety marshall, and pilot "stations", and no spectators on the field, etc. etc. But now almost everybody is flying electrics that weigh a couple of pounds or less. Could they hurt somebody in a freak accident? Sure, but freak accidents can happen anytime, and they are thankfully rare. I've seen people scared away from clubs by "safety" field marshalls that clearly were still thinking of olden times.

    Most clubs are still training potential pilots with glow or gas planes. Half the training time is spent going over safety and fooling around with temperamental engines and other complex gear. I know from training my friends that you can learn 100 times faster with a nice 2 pound electric trainer. First, it's easier to fly, and second, you just turn it on and it works. If it crashes, you hot glue it back together or buy some inexpensive replacement parts. Why would a new person stay with the club when the club members are actually making it harder to learn to fly? And then they can read here that the older generation looks down on them for taking the easy route, when every single one of them would have done exactly the same thing if the technology were available.
    Yep, you got it Mike. Get them a a cheap, lightRTF, take them down to the park and get that piece of crap int he air. Don't worry about safety - hell if it goes throught he window of someone's car just run like hell. If it hits a kid palying with his dog, so what - the dog would have hurt the plane anyway.

    What is the matter with you Mike? Safety, even with a 2 pound electric is paramount. The I'll do what I want attitude is nohting but trouble, serious trouble. But you don't give a damn do you?


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